Warranty Issues

SP Ken · 01-04-2006, 09:11 AM

G'day All,

Firstly this thread is not meant to start an all out war of one side against another and if it does it will be pulled. Lets play nice and get some constructive thoughts.

Ok there has been talk here lately about not posting pictures of cars at the track or on the 1/4 mile because they may be seen by Ford Employees and the owners of the cars my have warranties voided. There was even a suggestion that we open a private Photo Bucket account and we all have access to it so we can share pictures.

Now I think we are going too far. As a club here or at our own website we have always posted pics of our cars at events we held, be that cruises or motorsport events. No we have an almost a knee jerk reaction because someone has had a warranty claim knocked back on a drive line issue. This is on a modded car that has done both 1/4 mile work and track work and has been posted here doing so. Now again this is not an attack on anybody but all those that mod our cars do so with eyes wide open to the fact that as soon as a spanner goes where it shouldn't then warranty goes as well. It is the same as full on track work or serious 1/4 milers. If you consistently strive for faster times at the track and break something why should Ford pay for it. After all they never intended the car to be doing full on sprint days. I suppose what I am saying my opinion is "if you play, you pay".

I know I may have opened a can of worms here but I would like your opinions. I am disappointed that this may mean the end of us sharing our memories with each other and anybody else that wasn't there. Remember a time when you would race home after an event (or better still if you never attended it because of other commitments) and get on the web a have a look at the pics from the day. It would be sad to see that go.

Cheers,

Ken

Penelope Pitstop · 01-04-2006, 09:48 AM

The fact of the matter is this – Ford are on the war path. They are really looking for any excuse to void warranties and are knuckling down on things such as Cold Air Induction and Exhaust modifications. These are not necessarily mods to make your vehicle go fast but are also mods done for fuel efficiency and in some cases just to make the car sound nicer then the stocko models.

Now I have actually put some thought into this because I take this club of ours very seriously and am always looking at ways we can improve it. Now there is nothing wrong with sharing pictures but we must mindful of the risks associated with doing so… I do, however think I have a solution –

We need to get our own Forums on our own site back up and running ASAP and when we do this we need to ensure that there is a member’s only section which you must log in to view the content. Access to this portion of the site should only be available for FINANCIAL members of the club and should be approved by the secretary or something similar before access is granted.

If we had this type of secure area then we could post photos to our hearts delight without any ramifications. Until such time it is unfortunate that the we need to watch each others backs and remain diligent about not showing registration plates on the forums.

**** Keep in mind this information kids – even your most stocko vehicle can have its warranty voided for participating in ANY track work…. So your tame laps around Morgan Park could in fact be the death of your warranty if Ford find about it and can prove it.

Cheers, Tori

quest · 01-04-2006, 10:45 AM

Im sure someone at Ford could gain access to a "members" section if they really wanted to
I think you should make a policy of no legible licence plates on posted pictures
Without a plate # to ID a car , there's no warranty problem

Lots of free photo editing software out there-start using it!

SP Ken · 01-04-2006, 10:53 AM

I agree with everything Tori has said. You all will know that the Committee is working towards a fully functioning website with our own Forums again but these things take time and what we have already is a credit to a small band of members who gave their time freely to get it to where it is now. It will develop further with time.

Again I agree if you participate even in the Tame at Heart session you may have warranty issues but the risk of breaking something by driving this way is very minimal compared to those who go all out and push things to the limit. I am concerned that all this talk will dissuade members from participating in what is essentially a fun day with no chance of losing the sheep station. If the consensus is that members don't want these days anymore for fear of losing warranty then lets take them off the books and stick to show and shines and cruises.

Ken

Penelope Pitstop · 01-04-2006, 11:16 AM

An important thing to note is that you don't need to actually break something out on the track for your warranty to be voided... Ford is actually black marking cars even before they have issues... So the thing is you could have the time of your life putt putting around the track at 20kms/hr - and a photo is snapped and placed in a public viewing area with your plates on show. Ford see photo and flag your car on their computer system with a void warranty code. The first you know about it is when you eventually go in for a service or request warranty work done.

In photos nobody can prove you were not fanging it. All Ford care about is that they have photographic proof of your vehicle on a track. Simple as that.

We all still want events like Morgan Park to happen but we just need to be extra careful for the time being to look after our own warranties and those of our fellow clubbies... I personally still have 4 3/4 years left on my warranty and I do not want it voided because a club member innocently pastes a photo of my car on the forums and Ford jump on it.

All we have to do is be a little smart about how we show off our fun times and it really is very quick and very simple to wipe out number plates before posting photos.

Cheers, Tori

vegabass · 01-04-2006, 11:34 AM

I don’t have to worry about Warrantee as my car is going on 10 years old :(

As a club we can do things that will minimize the risk of people loosing there warrantees.

There have been some great suggestions and I look forward to when they are implemented

It would be a shame to can these motorsport days as its apart of why we get together to show off our pride and joy....It also keeps the urge away from me doing it on the street.

ETH02 · 01-04-2006, 12:07 PM

I know it may be going to extreems but if we have events were anyone else has access and can take photos of us having responsible fun in our cars :eclipsee_ maybe we could remove our number plates ( also help reduce weight

: ) to ensure peace of mind that your car can't be ID by Ford

: .

Steve

Penelope Pitstop · 01-04-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETH02

I know it may be going to extreems but if we have events were anyone else has access and can take photos of us having responsible fun in our cars :eclipsee_ maybe we could remove our number plates ( also help reduce weight

: ) to ensure peace of mind that your car can't be ID by Ford

: .

Steve

Yeah it does sound extreme but we have actually decided to do this or we might just tape them up instead. Doesn't take too long to remove the plates or tape and and it will give us peace of mind...

fiery · 01-04-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETH02

I know it may be going to extreems but if we have events were anyone else has access and can take photos of us having responsible fun in our cars :eclipsee_ maybe we could remove our number plates ( also help reduce weight

: ) to ensure peace of mind that your car can't be ID by Ford

: .

Steve

It would actually be easier to tape the number plates up than to remove them to be honest... but that is an idea for people to think about with the upcoming events if they are concerned.

I am like Drew, I dont have to worry about Warranty issues, but as a clubbie, I don't want to see others risking their warranties..
It is true that each member whose car is under warranty needs to consider the risks they are taking but maybe the club itself could approach FORD to find out if things like Morgan Park are an issue. One of the Club Sponsors is a Ford Dealership... wouldn't that then affect their sponsorship if FORD themselves don't agree to what a club event is etc.
I believe this issue is real and actually should be discussed properly at a 'club meeting'... Just a thought ...

vegabass · 01-04-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

I believe this issue is real and actually should be discussed properly at a 'club meeting'... Just a thought ...

The Forum is a great place to discuss this as people get to voice the opinion uninterrupted and in the comfort of there own homes, the down side is not everyone reads the forums and a lot of people just look and never reply.

quest · 01-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Could be your next Photoshop project:

Design a AU Ford Forum cover that anyone can print off and clip over the licence plate

Laminge · 01-04-2006, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quest

Could be your next Photoshop project:

Design a AU Ford Forum cover that anyone can print off and clip over the licence plate

The forums have their own that we use at car shows, Im sure a generic set could be made, and they are actually strong enough to be drilled into and attached over the number plate.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=34980

Goes through the design and some of the costings

WILDTRAKPX2 · 01-04-2006, 08:31 PM

I reckon removing or covering the plates is an excellent solution (unless the car has unique and/or distinguishing features). Also, by wearing the compulsory helmets will help in making people's faces hard to detect if the photo is close up.

Penelope Pitstop · 01-04-2006, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave XR8

I reckon removing or covering the plates is an excellent solution (unless the car has unique and/or distinguishing features). Also, by wearing the compulsory helmets will help in making people's faces hard to detect if the photo is close up.

Exactly but when you've got a ute like mine Ash, you can never be too careful!

WILDTRAKPX2 · 01-04-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penelope Pitstop

Exactly but when you've got a ute like mine Ash, you can never be too careful!

That's for sure Tori. Interestingly, skid pan days seem to be OK. The last one I went to my dealer put the day on, and our next one in June will be sponsored by the dealer, who is a great bloke.

coyote · 01-04-2006, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockwave XR8

I reckon removing or covering the plates is an excellent solution (unless the car has unique and/or distinguishing features). Also, by wearing the compulsory helmets will help in making people's faces hard to detect if the photo is close up.

Ok if you look carefully how many of us do not have unique and distinguising features.

What's wrong with the Photobucket concept , it's free, does not need a computer guru to set up and accessable to all with a password, provided we give it a name not associated with our club or cars then it would not even turn up on a search

On the main issue how do ford distinguish between a training day and a track day, is it if timing is involved, I wonder what the exact definition is ????????]

Speaking of Ford Warranty I was in a service centre and there was a pile of BA gearboxes in the corner awaiting transport back to ford, whilst I did not count them I would guess at over 40 units, I asked how long they were sitting there and was told a few weeks (this is not even a big Ford Dealership) they actually did two diff replacements on the day I spent in there workshop Both XT Utes.

coyote · 01-04-2006, 09:12 PM

[QUOTE=coyote]Ok if you look carefully how many of us do not have unique and distinguising features.

QUOTE]

I meant the cars not the drivers

Thought I better get in quick before I get jumped on

WILDTRAKPX2 · 01-04-2006, 09:17 PM

...................

WILDTRAKPX2 · 01-04-2006, 09:33 PM

Was thinking some more. Maybe we should not make public any reference to these events and certainly not where or when. Would this affect sponsorship?

cro142 · 01-04-2006, 09:50 PM

I think that the best way to keep the ID of our cars out of photos is to simply cover the plates, as has been suggested above. While many of the cars have distinguishing features, it can't be proved that there may not be another car with that particular feature - the only legal identifier is the rego number. However, the more your car deviates from standard appearance, the greater the risk of not being able to convince Ford that "it wasn't me in that track photo".

The best way to cover plates would be to tape on a simple printed paper cover sheet saying something like "XR Club", or simply "XR" to remove any connection with the club.

At the same time, we all must be clear that the warranty specifically excludes cover for motorsport activities - it's no point debating this, it's in the same black and white print that protects you under normal circumstances.

You can't blame Ford for taking notice of the potential for unjustified warranty claims when so many XR6T's in particular are being modified to hell, and raced on the 1/4 mile etc - just look at some other forums.

My attitude to warranty is that both Ford and the purchaser sign up to the conditions of the warranty as per the handbook, and I would expect BOTH parties to abide by these written conditions.

The bottom line is as Ken says above - "if you play, you pay".

Peter C

DJR02 · 01-04-2006, 09:57 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but when you purchase an FPV product doesn't it come with a driver training day on a racetrack to "show you what the car can do".

How is it then that the FPV event does not affect warranty, (I know that cars have breakdowns on those days) but anything else related to "Track Work" does.

Just a thought

Cheers Jeff

coyote · 01-04-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJR02

Correct me if I am wrong but when you purchase an FPV product doesn't it come with a driver training day on a racetrack to "show you what the car can do".

How is it then that the FPV event does not affect warranty, (I know that cars have breakdowns on those days) but anything else related to "Track Work" does.

Just a thought

Cheers Jeff

And surely if you participate in a driver training day run by other organisations that would be considered normal driving

I think the main issue has to do with Competition and or timing

:

YGOSLO · 02-04-2006, 12:00 AM

I have been involved in many track days with performance cars here and NZ.

Any track day is dubious, but! I attended a HSV sprint day at QLD Raceway two years ago when a two week old Club Sport hit the concrete wall coming on to the main straight. The car was a write off. a sickly site! the guy and his wife cried for for hours. His insurance company paid out and replaced the vehicle because the day was title "DRIVER TRAINING DAY" .

The Day was organised with a performance driving school but they were not necessary in your vehicle. So there you go! there are ways to around most problems.

Regards

YGOSLO

Penelope Pitstop · 02-04-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coyote

I think the main issue has to do with Competition and or timing

:

Exactly got it in one - this is a competition event and not in any way shape or form driver training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGOSLO

I have been involved in many track days with performance cars here and NZ.

Any track day is dubious, but! I attended a HSV sprint day at QLD Raceway two years ago when a two week old Club Sport hit the concrete wall coming on to the main straight. The car was a write off. a sickly site! the guy and his wife cried for for hours. His insurance company paid out and replaced the vehicle because the day was title "DRIVER TRAINING DAY" .

The Day was organised with a performance driving school but they were not necessary in your vehicle. So there you go! there are ways to around most problems.

Regards

YGOSLO

I work for a large Insurance company and will point out again even though I am sure we all know this already - You are not insured the second your car hits the track, not at all. I don't know of any Insurance companies that offer insurance for track work.

SP Ken · 02-04-2006, 08:02 AM

G'day all,

Well there has been some good advice posted here about the subject and I thank all that contributed. The bottom line is Warranties can be voided by modifications or using you vehicle for something other that it's intended use eg. Track / Drag work. In the end you have to make the decision whether you participate or not and then live with it if something breaks as a result. I would never claim warranty on a broken car that I have caused the breakage by passing it off as Fords fault, to do so would be fraud.

We have agreed that any photos posted should have Rego's blacked out, I asked for this in the email that went out about the event, and if you want the extra protection of taking off your number plates then you can do so. But you must also remember there will be times when things still will get through. A recent "driver training day" talked about in a public forum just like this one revealed the rego number of one of a participant in a post about it, all in fun and all innocent like but slip ups happen (I see that the post has been edited now). In the long run I will reiterate the point I raised in the first post in this thread. If you play then be prepared to pay.

WILDTRAKPX2 · 02-04-2006, 09:13 AM

I would love to participate on track days but have not or will not, based on the fact I don't want any insurance problems and or warranty issues. Yes, I have made some modifications, but I spoke to the service supervisor before doing so. They were OK with what I had in mind except any computer edits etc. I'm not a gambling man, and even if I was, I could never see myself risking $50K on something that would not provide any financial return. Don't get me wrong... I would love to take my car out and take it to it's limit.

I'm only saying this because if Ford do follow all this and read the threads in this forum, I want to make it clear where I stand. I had a brake issue last week and because the guys know I'm in a club, the issue of track days was brought up. Anyway, I'll just go back and sit on my chair on the sideline resigned to the fact that in life you can't have everything you want.

Have fun guys and gals!

Ash

jabba · 02-04-2006, 03:13 PM

So why don't you just cover you plates and have a run on the track. The fact the Ford won't honor there warranty because you put your car on a track is utterly pathetic on Ford's behalf. Don't miss out on having some fun and finding the full potential of your car...... ИИИИ Ford...... Come along and have a great day with us all...

Oh and who said "you cant have it all"...... Like hell you can.......

WILDTRAKPX2 · 02-04-2006, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

So why don't you just cover you plates and have a run on the track. The fact the Ford won't honor there warranty because you put your car on a track is utterly pathetic on Ford's behalf. Don't miss out on having some fun and finding the full potential of your car...... ИИИИ Ford...... Come along and have a great day with us all...

Oh and who said "you cant have it all"...... Like hell you can.......

Mate, I would loooooooove to! Believe me. The insurance thing worries me as well.

Penelope Pitstop · 02-04-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jabba

So why don't you just cover you plates and have a run on the track. The fact the Ford won't honor there warranty because you put your car on a track is utterly pathetic on Ford's behalf. Don't miss out on having some fun and finding the full potential of your car...... ИИИИ Ford...... Come along and have a great day with us all...

Oh and who said "you cant have it all"...... Like hell you can.......

It might be pathetic Matt, but still very real...

I would hate to see events like Morgan Park get canned due to fright but we all need to enter into these things with our eyes wide open.

Its easy to say ИИИИ Ford but when you have a huge warranty on the line it is stupid to not at least give this some serious thought.

jabba · 02-04-2006, 09:27 PM

I just find it hard to comprehend that you can flog the living daylight out of you car on the street illegally, and still able to get your warranty honored. But put a tyre a race track and Ford has a hissy fit......

Regards to the insurance side of things.... All vehicles that partake on any race track will have no insurance cover while on the track. It will not void you or your car of insurance all together. So once you have had your fun and you are heading home you will be insured......Tori, what's your take on the insurance matter, as you are in the industry....

Shockwave.... I can not express enough that the safety is first and utmost important on the track. In fact I will go as far to say that racing flat out at Morgan park is safer then doing the speed limit on the M1(True)....... Just drive to you ability and don't step over, and if you do have a miss hap (there were none at the last meet), there is heap of run of room (softy padded grass). You can also chose to drive in 1 of 3 catorgarys, Tame at heart, for those that arnt experiance drivers on the track. Mild group, for those who want to drive fast but not flat out. Then there's Flat Out.. and that where you drive Flat out.......

So there is no reason you should miss out... Heck enter the Tame at heart and if you feel confident you can move up to Mild after a couple of runs.......