EB vs United Boost 98

[BuuBox]

I filled up the EB last night with United's new 98 Octane fuel with 10% ethanol... the price was right, the octane rating was right, and the car seemed to run better. It reved cleaner, didn't seem to complain as much higher in the rev range, and seemed to idle a little smoother. For 2 cents a litre extra, I was happy... Bit unsure about the whole ethanol thing, but I was willing to give it a try.

But I was driving to uni this morning in 'power' mode, running 15 minutes late, and it's all of a sudden started to idle rough, blowing black smoke as it attempted to stay alive. It seems to be fine after initially coming to a stop, however just gets rougher and rougher, with the rpm dropping below the 600rpm mark.

Now, it's probably just considence, but could this be the result of the fuel? I've never had idling problems with this car before... And what can I do to fix the bastard? Everyone wants to drag me when it looks like I'm stalling it up at lights...

[mcflux]

98ron? What do you normally put in the car? And what timing is your (presumably) I6 set at?

If you're running on standard timing, it's not worth getting higher octane fuel. My V8 runs on 91ron without any hiccups.

-Dave-

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

98ron? What do you normally put in the car? And what timing is your (presumably) I6 set at?

If you're running on standard timing, it's not worth getting higher octane fuel. My V8 runs on 91ron without any hiccups.

-Dave-

Some people are under the impression that running a higher ron fuel is a waste of time and money if you car is not tuned for it. They are wrong. The fact is, that you will get a beneffit out of runing a higher ron fuel, whether it's better performance, better economy or a cleaner engine ( internaly). using a 91 ron is dispicable, and when ever I have had to use it, I get the guilts like I have cheated on my wife. Also 91ron will foul your injectors over time and allow carbon to build up on your valves piston and head. Therefor
causing your engine becoming less efficient.

Another myth is, that ethonol will destroy your motor. This is a true and false at the same time. If you are using a 10% blend you are well and truly safe. However you may find if you have been using ULP previously and then switch to a ethonol blend you may destroy you spark plugs. Reason... The ethonol is a very clean burning renewable fuel, which will lossen and clean your engine as you drive and cause the carbon on the piston to free up and clag up the spark plugs.

Ethonol will destroy you engine if more the 15-20% is blended with ULP or if you are driving a older vehical. however any unleaded car should be able to handle the ethonol. If in dout in using it and you would like to try it, try this method. fill your tank full of 95ron then once you have used 1/4 of the tank add the 10% E blend untill full again. Then refill with Eblend again when you have used 1/2 a tank. Repeat the process again at 3/4 tank. then use the E blend all the time. This process will soften the impact of using such a clean fuel.

[Valknutr]

reckon he is an ethanol supplier???

[mcflux]

Yep, I agree, there's nothing wrong with ethanol

However how can a lower octane fuel cause carbon buildup?!?

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Valknutr

reckon he is an ethanol supplier???

No I am not. I have just read alot about the ethonol blend petrol since they started ilegally putting it into fuel, so that the servo owner could dodge the fuel tax.

Also the big scare campaign about ethonol destroying engines was started by the federal labor party.

[jabba]

Originally Posted by Ghia5L

Yep, I agree, there's nothing wrong with ethanol

However how can a lower octane fuel cause carbon buildup?!?

A lower ron fuel is a lesser quality fuel or dirtier fuel. When it is burnt it leaves more carbon deposits inside your motor then a 95ron. A 98ron is the best for maintaining a good clean internals and so on.

Think of your motor as your intestines. If you eat unhealthy food alot of the time, your body will suffer from it in differant ways, ie, constipation, lethargic,
feeling ran down all the time or all of the above. Start eating health and you feel alot better more energy and a feeling of well being. And no I am not a naturopath :hihi:

[ilsautomotive]

I don't disagree, I avoid cheapo petrol for the same reason I avoid cheapo oil. This topic has been the source of debate for a long time, though, and will probably stay that way.

[sphell]

if you want proof, back when my car was CFI I used to run it on Premium or Optimax or whatever, and when I converted to MPI the insides of the manifold, and injectors etc were brand new looking. I've since converted other cars to MPI that were run on reg unleaded and the insides of the manifolds are caked up with crap.

[Kaddis]

yeh i was running mobil 8000 in my car and it ran nice and smooth and lately i've been putting normal unleaded in it and it runs shocking it's pinging and when i put my foot say quarter way down and keep it there the acceleration changes alot like it skips then picks up and it runs like buggery

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by jabba

A lower ron fuel is a lesser quality fuel or dirtier fuel. When it is burnt it leaves more carbon deposits inside your motor then a 95ron. A 98ron is the best for maintaining a good clean internals and so on.

Ahh ok, so the non-octane components in the fuel is "bad mmkay"? Makes sense come to think of it!

[INJECTED_250]

Every one knows this but ill say it again..... normal unleaded is actually Easier to ignite at 91 ron then mobile 8000 ath 98.... So if youre timing is stock, then runing 91 ron fuel should be fine, as with 98 ron its burning slower so i dont see the power increase on a stock engine without turing the timing up to take advantage of the slower flame front.
. these cars are designed to run on lower grade fuel.... if it pings turn youre timing back..

Just check every thing over first ....

[Steffo]

98 RON being better for your engine, most of the time, with average street cars that aren't European or made for any sort of performance, is oil company tripe to get people to buy more expensive fuel.

Higher octane fuel means that it is less easy to ignite the fuel. This is all. It's sole purpose is to reduce detonation in highly strung motors. In a regular car, like a Toyota Camry, Ford Falcon XT, Commodore Executive, and these types of vehicles, all you do when you buy 98 RON is waste your money. Often, you actually lose power, and the vehicle becomes less fuel efficient, because it is a more difficult fuel to burn.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

98 RON being better for your engine, most of the time, with average street cars that aren't European or made for any sort of performance, is oil company tripe to get people to buy more expensive fuel.

Higher octane fuel means that it is less easy to ignite the fuel. This is all. It's sole purpose is to reduce detonation in highly strung motors. In a regular car, like a Toyota Camry, Ford Falcon XT, Commodore Executive, and these types of vehicles, all you do when you buy 98 RON is waste your money. Often, you actually lose power, and the vehicle becomes less fuel efficient, because it is a more difficult fuel to burn.

And you can actually put up your own documentation to back this up. Even thought your claims differ from the real world experience of others? No thought not, wont stop the maniacal replies with tales of uncles and dual fuel taxis though! :

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

And you can actually put up your own documentation to back this up. Even thought your claims differ from the real world experience of others? No thought not, wont stop the maniacal replies with tales of uncles and dual fuel taxis though! :

http://chemistry.about.com/library/w...abyb100401.htm

Read that and come back to me. In fact, I feel these two excellent quotes from that site deserve to be in this thread..

Originally Posted by About Chemistry

Premium Gasoline
Certain high performance engines benefit from use of high octane fuel. For other engines, using a fuel with a higher octane rating than the vehicle requires sends unburned fuel into the emissions system and catalytic converter. This puts unecessary stress on the emissions system. For some vehicles, a rotten egg smell coming from the tailpipe signals use of too-high octane gas.

And also...

Originally Posted by About Chemistry

Regular Unleaded Gasoline
The recommended gasoline for most cars is regular 87 octane. One common misconception is that higher octane gasoline contains more cleaning additives than lower octane gas. All octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against engine deposit build-up. In fact, using a gasoline with too high of an octane rating may cause damage to the emissions system.

Back up enough, or need I provide more factual information?

[mcflux]

:

Go Steffo!

Which brings me to this question: So if 91RON and 98RON fuels have generally the same amount of cleaning agents included (we'll ignore the BP 95RON hype here), what replaces the missing 7 points of rated octane in 91RON fuel?

And do these points represent a percentage?

IIRC US octane ratings differ from Aussie ratings (87 = 91, or something like that).

-Dave-

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Back up enough, or need I provide more factual information?

Your confusing theory for actual facts, relevant to a real world situation you cannot differentiate between a modern EFI engined car and a some rooted ex cab or econovan, and even then its not your own experience.

Newsflash sunshine, Google is everybodys friend not yours alone!!
If I want to read up on a subject of interest, I'll go fetch it direct. I asked for real world experience and as you well know, never having filled a tank from your own pocket you dont have the facts to back your speculation. I have 150,000+km worth of petrol receipts that says your wrong.

[Sourbastard]

Mythbusters time.

Higher Octane does not automagically equal power.
Higher Octane, means its a slower burning fuel, and takes longer to burn. Hence why the timing increase yields more power.
Higher Octane means it is less succeptable to premature ignition from sources like engine heat.

Octane is also a name given to a a flammable liquid hydrocarbon with a chemical formula of C8H18. Its used as a rating system against fuels. A higher Octane rating does not mean MORE octane is present in the fuel.

Higher Octane does not mean your car will suddenly become inefficient, nor does it mean you will suddenly destroy your Catalytic Converter. We are talking a jump of 7 octane points here, we arent switching to running the car on Jack Daniels.

And touting what is "reported" to be done in American Fuels doesnt mean Jack here steffo. What is done to "Gasolene" in the states does not necessarily reflect what is done in the refining process here in Australia. And trust me when I say you will find reliable information hard to obtain in Australia on what exactly is in our petrol of any octane rating, especially from different petrol refineries and producers. There are standards of course, but apart from meeting those standards, exact ingredients and properties of the fuels arent details forthcomming to Joe Average.

[Velociraptor]

My converters love to run on Jack Daniels. :baby bott

[Steffo]

You're right, there will be differences between Aussie and American fuel, I don't doubt it. And you're also right, I've never found a good information source for what it done to Australian fuels in the refining process etc. But it does not change the fact that higher octane does not necessarily mean more power, better fuel efficiency etc. Ideally, you should run what the manufacturer specifies. If they say 91 RON, then 91 RON is it. Why spend extra on a fuel your engine does not need, nor can it make use of?

And one more question needs to be asked. As sourbastard said, we're only talking 7 octane points. Are they really worth nearly 20 cents extra a litre, even though most of the time the manufacturer specifies to run 91 RON?

And yes Ghia5L, you're right, US octane ratings do differ to ours. The formula we use here is RON (Research Octane). In America, the formula they use is RON + MON (Motor Octane) / 2. Our 91 RON is something like their 87, and our 98 RON is something like their 93.

[parawolf]

Originally Posted by Velociraptor

My converters love to run on Jack Daniels. :baby bott

Your livers are not catalytic convertors py:

[jmc-007]

I run my car on 98 now full stop even when its expensive.

I have advanced the timing and noted the before and after economy.

1. 1 tank full 60ltrs aprox. same servo same time of the week. 650kms one tank (pre timing adjustment)

2. 1 tank full 60ltrs aprox. same servo same time of the week. 700kms one tank (after the timing was adjusted by 15degrees)

these are only my observations.

the car is a 1992 ford EBII S with no mods apart from a K&N Filter

[neb]

how the hell is your fuel economy so good??? lol

[Sourbastard]

He pushes his car for the first 300km's and drives the rest.

[The Mighty Red]

I must admit I ran the XR on reg unleaded for about 6weeks and the car became noticeably sluggish within a few days i have now changed back to BP Ultimate and the car has got back its zing.
It never ran bad or pinged on regular and I dont know if reg unleaded is dirty fuel or not but our XR can certainly tell the difference,

[Barry_v]

I run the DC 5.0 on anything thats cheap and the ZC 351 on premium. I did try and run the ZC on standard unleaded as Im not really into all this premium stuff, it pinged like mad though(the timing was correct).

I dont believe it makes the engine cleaner however, this is a valve i took out of it.

[jmc-007]

Originally Posted by neb

how the hell is your fuel economy so good??? lol

I am nice too it :

I can almost make it to brisbane from newcastle

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Barry_v

I run the DC 5.0 on anything thats cheap and the ZC 351 on premium. I did try and run the ZC on standard unleaded as Im not really into all this premium stuff, it pinged like mad though(the timing was correct).

I dont believe it makes the engine cleaner however, this is a valve i took out of it.

No fuel we buy at the pump is going to make the engine cleaner. No fuel is filtered perfectly. They will all put gunk into your fuel system, it gathers everywhere, especially the bottom of the fuel tank. Have it flushed out every few years and watch the crap that comes out...

Some are under the delusiuon that PULP does something different.. but as you have proven, its no better then ULP, unless your engine actually needs the extra 7 octane points.

[oneredED]

In a regular car, like a Toyota Camry, Ford Falcon XT, Commodore Executive, and these types of vehicles, all you do when you buy 98 RON is waste your money. Often, you actually lose power, and the vehicle becomes less fuel efficient, because it is a more difficult fuel to burn.

BWAHAHA. Waste of money on a stock car? Personally, i don't think so :P
Yeah, it's more expensive, but the benefits of better fuel economy and a cleaner revving engine are plain to see and experience for anyone who drives a car in the real world. The justification of price may not weigh up with the extra distance travelled, but i know EVERY single engine i have run both premium and regular UL through have preferred the premium noticably, shown by them running alot better, from standard and worked Victa lawnmower engines, to 2-stroke motocrossers race bikes to dead stock BA XT's. They also used less fuel...

Steffo, not having a stab mate ;), but go out and test your theories, rather than falling back too much on internet browsing or hear-say to back you up. You'll find many people will experience different things, and no testing can cancel out all unwanted variables.

[ilsautomotive]

I have heard every possible combination of stories... people claiming the car runs poorly on 98 Octane (well, once), people saying they notice no difference etc. All I can suggest to 'swinging voters' is giving all options a try before settling on the default choice of 91 Octane lawnmower fuel.