Stripped vs normal car times.

**Stav** · 07-05-2008, 08:12 AM

Guys.I have been thinking if there is a tactful way to clarify this point of interest.
I have to say that the first time on the forums when I heard people were striping their cars and fitting super lightweight tyres that I was a little miffed.
Since then I realised that the relevance of a drag raced prepped car is pretty relevant when there is a record to be beaten.Hence we get some great times posted and indeed they are the quickest. Congrats to all those members concerned.
The relevance of this practice above really means nothing though to the guy on the street who wants to mod his/her car. So where does it leave the title of the fastest car? Nowhere. There probably are cars which are daily driven which in the same trim are faster than the fastest cars . They say all is fair in love and war but you have to wonder ..who really has the faster car ?

We can get the title by getting an unfair advantage but who is the quicker car? The guy who can be the fastest in normal trim ?Or the guy who stripp down and use vice grips to weight save on steering wheels?

DABOSS · 07-05-2008, 08:35 AM

It's not about who has the least amount of weight or the qiuckest car, It's about having a two class field, Weight reduced , And full trim running street tyres.

This will end any issues in terms of arguments regarding the times run by others, And create a niche in the drag racing game.

I'm sure that the LS1's have something like this surely they must.

Same goes for running Blown vs N/A, weight reduction of x amount weight = in terms of power and few 1/10th's. ( Same as running full weight - and reduced weight )

But at the end of the day we're all in the same boat of pursuing a quick time in our street cars.

GT · 07-05-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABOSS

It's not about who has the least amount of weight or the qiuckest car, It's about having a two class field, Weight reduced , And full trim running street tyres.

This will end any issues in terms of arguments regarding the times run by others, And create a niche in the drag racing game.

I'm sure that the LS1's have something like this surely they must.

Same goes for running Blown vs N/A, weight reduction of x amount weight = in terms of power and few 1/10th's. ( Same as running full weight - and reduced weight )

But at the end of the day we're all in the same boat of pursuing a quick time in our street cars.

I have found this whole 'sour grapes' attitude very disappointing Rob. I would have thought removing a passenger seat, and rear seat plus the spare wheel not quite stripping the whole car!

Where does one draw the line in the sand? I could argue that your car needs to go into another catagory also as you have a purpose built engine with Rods, Pistons, Cam Shafts, Diff gears, Pump Gears and High Stall.....the Hamburger with the lot! Hardly a level playing field either. Mine has diff gears and pump gears only - a stock standard engine, mate!

Get over it and let us enjoy what we worked hard to achieve. I don't remember Craig singing anything but your praises when you got you 12.4 something with a car a far cry from stock.

Gaela

ratter · 07-05-2008, 10:04 AM

This could open a big can of worms as there will be people on both sides of the fence that think they are correct.

When most people are chasing the best numbers they can get, they prepare their car the best way that they can. This may include a good service and a new set of plugs and filters.
Others may actually have to make their car a bit safer to pass through the tech inspection.
For some they may spend an hour or 2 removing some easily removed items to reduce the overall weight of the car.

Using lightweight wheels is not a big brainer, the less weight that has to be turned, the quicker the acceleration and fact is most of the wheels are legal to be used on the road. Most owners normally change the wheels on their cars anyway. It's almost like saying that it's not even because someone used a better brand of exhaust

As far as using drag slicks, yes slicks are normally lighter than a road tyre, but they will grip a lot better and some consider them safer on a prepared race track, but are not road legal.
A lot of people are also getting good numbers from MT ET Drag radials and claiming full street trim - these tyres are not legal for road useage in Australia.

What is full street trim? the answer will vary to according to who you ask.
What about the guy that has built a pro street car with aluminium interior etc etc but drives his car on the street.
What about the guy that has 4 subbys, 6 amps etc etc
A luxury pack car will weight more than a poverty pack car, so would that mean the luxo guy could remove some weight to even up the feild.
Street trim could also mean is it roadworthy and if so which state. Fact is most our late model cars once modded would not technically be roadworthy 100%, even a car with just a tune would not probably not pass is tested by the correct methods.

Some owners are prepared to put in a little more work to get the best possible time they can for their car with no excuses which is why they may chose to run slicks etc.

When I raced my pursuit, it was run in "street trim" but on MT ET Street radials and ran a best of 12.23 and this was on a 400 klm round trip to go racing, driven to the track and driven home.
2 Weeks later the tune was touched up, exhaust dropped, tailgate removed front seats removed (padded race seat fitted for driver) 4 point race harness fitted and spare removed, all this was done to try to be the first unopened 11. All this work took about maybe 1-1.5 hrs to do and could be done by anyone mechanically minded. then we fitted slicks and prostar road wheels. we ended up running 11 on the first run and improved for the next few runs.

Ok, I know my car has run an 11 but not how I drive it on the street, I know in street trim it would run a low 12, but I do not use MT Drag radials on the street, but I do not and have not run this car on the street. This car has only be raced on the track, so I set it up for the track.

My car was returned back to complete the day after running the 11 at calder and took me again about an hour or so and the car has not suffered an ill effects from racing and is still as nice to drive an any other pursuit out there.

I did all this as I was after the best possible time the car could produce (within reason) and I did not want any excuses to why it did not perform.

I guess at the end of the day it is up to each individual owner to what they are prepared to do and how thay want to go about it. Good luck to anyone who wants to go racing no matter which way you go about it

:voldar02:

**Bluepower** · 07-05-2008, 11:19 AM

there are only two types of cars on the strip. Quick cars and slow cars.

This isn't super stock in ANDRA running BMS with a 9.45lb per cube and a 250page rule book. until it is, run whatever you have, and claim your time for your mods.

If someone strips their car and achieves a goal, then awesome. If they elect to do it in street trim, also awesome.

The whining in Australia should stop - a quick visit to the USA will have many of you gobsmaked at just how SLOW our cars really are.

I'll be happy to strip my cars, as im not running against other bosses until i see another quick one - im after holdens.

The Monty · 07-05-2008, 11:37 AM

I dont see any difference. Your at a race track, not on the street.
By the way, all those who claim they ran there times in there 100% street car, exactly how you run it on the street, is that with the exact tyre pressure you run on the street? I highly doubt it, and if youve modified the tyre pressure, there goes your claim to fame over a stripped out car, you are no better no worse.
What is 100% exact how you run it on the street? FULL tank of fuel, economy tune, 40PSI tyre preesure, tools, spare, subs and a baby seat, the missus and kid, dash mat that fall down when you mash the go pedal, CD's a water bottle, the list goes on.
Pretty much EVERY one of us modifies there car in some way when they go to the strip, be it by dropping the tyre pressure, or taking out that damned dash mat, and the CD case.
The times we run are run on the track, not on the street, some people need a reality check.

TheSneakiness · 07-05-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

I dont see any difference. Your at a race track, not on the street.
By the way, all those who claim they ran there times in there 100% street car, exactly how you run it on the street, is that with the exact tyre pressure you run on the street? I highly doubt it, and if youve modified the tyre pressure, there goes your claim to fame over a stripped out car, you are no better no worse.
What is 100% exact how you run it on the street? FULL tank of fuel, economy tune, 40PSI tyre preesure, tools, spare, subs and a baby seat, the missus and kid, dash mat that fall down when you mash the go pedal, CD's a water bottle, the list goes on.
Pretty much EVERY one of us modifies there car in some way when they go to the strip, be it by dropping the tyre pressure, or taking out that damned dash mat, and the CD case.
The times we run are run on the track, not on the street, some people need a reality check.

:

Geez Josh... settle down mate.

I run mine exactly how I drive it everyday, with added extras sometimes (food, drinks, jumpers, what have you). Don't drop the tyre pressures, don't take anything out. True daily my car.

The Monty · 07-05-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluepower

there are only two types of cars on the strip. Quick cars and slow cars.

:

jcxr · 07-05-2008, 11:59 AM

I will buy into this, as far as safety concerns, ALL participants must remove any loose items in the cabin area, No tools or toolboxs, or any items in the boot area. This equates not running at the same weight we normally drive around at.

Racecraft · 07-05-2008, 12:05 PM

lol @ Monty and the rogue dash mat....funny stuff

TheSneakiness · 07-05-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

lol @ Monty and the rogue dash mat....funny stuff

That was funny hey...

TZENU · 07-05-2008, 02:04 PM

IMHO when you are chasing a time, you go by any means possible.. If you are hunting the record then again, by any means possible... At the end of the day, its the time that counts and whoever has the fastest time is the quickest (whether you get there on a trailer or you drive there).

Offtopic: Congrats to Gaela on your achievement, but im still angry at you for eliminating me on the first round of the DYO

:

HEMI POWER · 07-05-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

This could open a big can of worms as there will be people on both sides of the fence that think they are correct.

When most people are chasing the best numbers they can get, they prepare their car the best way that they can. This may include a good service and a new set of plugs and filters.
Others may actually have to make their car a bit safer to pass through the tech inspection.
For some they may spend an hour or 2 removing some easily removed items to reduce the overall weight of the car.

Using lightweight wheels is not a big brainer, the less weight that has to be turned, the quicker the acceleration and fact is most of the wheels are legal to be used on the road. Most owners normally change the wheels on their cars anyway. It's almost like saying that it's not even because someone used a better brand of exhaust

As far as using drag slicks, yes slicks are normally lighter than a road tyre, but they will grip a lot better and some consider them safer on a prepared race track, but are not road legal.
A lot of people are also getting good numbers from MT ET Drag radials and claiming full street trim - these tyres are not legal for road useage in Australia.

What is full street trim? the answer will vary to according to who you ask.
What about the guy that has built a pro street car with aluminium interior etc etc but drives his car on the street.
What about the guy that has 4 subbys, 6 amps etc etc
A luxury pack car will weight more than a poverty pack car, so would that mean the luxo guy could remove some weight to even up the feild.
Street trim could also mean is it roadworthy and if so which state. Fact is most our late model cars once modded would not technically be roadworthy 100%, even a car with just a tune would not probably not pass is tested by the correct methods.

Some owners are prepared to put in a little more work to get the best possible time they can for their car with no excuses which is why they may chose to run slicks etc.

When I raced my pursuit, it was run in "street trim" but on MT ET Street radials and ran a best of 12.23 and this was on a 400 klm round trip to go racing, driven to the track and driven home.
2 Weeks later the tune was touched up, exhaust dropped, tailgate removed front seats removed (padded race seat fitted for driver) 4 point race harness fitted and spare removed, all this was done to try to be the first unopened 11. All this work took about maybe 1-1.5 hrs to do and could be done by anyone mechanically minded. then we fitted slicks and prostar road wheels. we ended up running 11 on the first run and improved for the next few runs.

Ok, I know my car has run an 11 but not how I drive it on the street, I know in street trim it would run a low 12, but I do not use MT Drag radials on the street, but I do not and have not run this car on the street. This car has only be raced on the track, so I set it up for the track.

My car was returned back to complete the day after running the 11 at calder and took me again about an hour or so and the car has not suffered an ill effects from racing and is still as nice to drive an any other pursuit out there.

I did all this as I was after the best possible time the car could produce (within reason) and I did not want any excuses to why it did not perform.

I guess at the end of the day it is up to each individual owner to what they are prepared to do and how thay want to go about it. Good luck to anyone who wants to go racing no matter which way you go about it

:voldar02:

Ratter, in drag racing if you race in street class you are not allowed to race on slicks it has to be on a Radial DOT approved tyre.The only thing i have for stripped out cars it's really false advertising.If your a shop and claim these figures in a vehicle that only a very few will strip out it's not really fair on the poor ol customer who goes out there and assumes he is getting that prized combo.I am pretty sure any steel belted radial is legal in Australia also.
All in all it's all up to the individual i would rather see these car in full street trim on radials pulling these times.In all honesty most that i know and a few have been drag racing for many years share my opinion on street cars or class

GT · 07-05-2008, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZENU

Offtopic: Congrats to Gaela on your achievement, but im still angry at you for eliminating me on the first round of the DYO

:

Better be angry at Craig - he was behind the wheel!! I am pit crew/owner...Craig is the superstar down the track. You would have been pleased if I had been driving it...........

HEMI POWER · 07-05-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcxr

I will buy into this, as far as safety concerns, ALL participants must remove any loose items in the cabin area, No tools or toolboxs, or any items in the boot area. This equates not running at the same weight we normally drive around at.

But removing seats and door trims is a bit far fetched.We are talking street cars.I remember a few years back seeing a car at the drags that had been completely stripped including the carpets and roof lining

pretty sure the car did run a great time and was even advertised as the quickest street car with that brand of car and engine ect.... in a few mags. :togo:The only drama was how the hell was his mates going to get a ride home

ratter · 07-05-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

Ratter, in drag racing if you race in street class you are not allowed to race on slicks it has to be on a Radial DOT approved tyre.The only thing i have for stripped out cars it's really false advertising.If your a shop and claim these figures in a vehicle that only a very few will strip out it's not really fair on the poor ol customer who goes out there and assumes he is getting that prized combo.I am pretty sure any belted radial is legal in Australia also.
All in all it's all up to the individual i would rather see these car in full street trim on radials pulling these times.In all honesty most that i know and a few have been drag racing for many years share my opinion on street cars or class

If there are rules racers must abide by them, totally agree with you, but we are talking street cars not an ANDRA bracket.
Although no written rules are around, we kept my car totally unopened because that was what was required at the time, I could have put oil pump gears in there to keep the motor safe, but played by the rules. My car when raced always had the bonnet up and was scrutinised quite closely by some members here to see if things had been changed. That was the rules we played by
Most people are honest with what they are saying they have done, I myself posted a thread similars to Craig when I ran my times.
I have to agree not all people/workshops are honest though which is deceiving their customers.

MT ET Street radials do not meet australian standards because they either have no load or speed rating on them and several people have been done for useing them. A licensed RWC tester I know actually had an inspector out from Vic Roads one day and showed him one of the tyres and asked if it was RWC, He looked at a little while but came back that it is not because of the above mentioned problems

HEMI POWER · 07-05-2008, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

If there are rules racers must abide by them, totally agree with you, but we are talking street cars not an ANDRA bracket.
Although no written rules are around, we kept my car totally unopened because that was what was required at the time, I could have put oil pump gears in there to keep the motor safe, but played by the rules. My car when raced always had the bonnet up and was scrutinised quite closely by some members here to see if things had been changed. That was the rules we played by
Most people are honest with what they are saying they have done, I myself posted a thread similars to Craig when I ran my times.
I have to agree not all people/workshops are honest though which is deceiving their customers.

MT ET Street radials do not meet australian standards because they either have no load or speed rating on them and several people have been done for useing them. A licensed RWC tester I know actually had an inspector out from Vic Roads one day and showed him one of the tyres and asked if it was RWC, He looked at a little while but came back that it is not because of the above mentioned problems

I have had mine passed.Being driving on them for the last 2 odd years aswell and have had the car pulled up by the local cop.No mention of being illegal either.All i was informed on was that if it was a steel belted radial it's fine.Pretty sure the distributer has also had a check from the RTA on this same subject.

ratter · 07-05-2008, 02:51 PM

I think that you have been lucky then.

I also have heard of people being pulled over by cops and not even knowing about their legality and not even raising an eyebrow

ADSXR8 · 07-05-2008, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

I have had mine passed.Being driving on them for the last 2 odd years aswell and have had the car pulled up by the local cop.No mention of being illegal either.All i was informed on was that if it was a steel belted radial it's fine.Pretty sure the distributer has also had a check from the RTA on this same subject.

We are you located HemiPower? Jim is in Victoria.

Road rules and licensing is State/Territory legislated, seems to me this could be the issue here.

Melz · 07-05-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

I dont see any difference. Your at a race track, not on the street.
By the way, all those who claim they ran there times in there 100% street car, exactly how you run it on the street, is that with the exact tyre pressure you run on the street? I highly doubt it, and if youve modified the tyre pressure, there goes your claim to fame over a stripped out car, you are no better no worse.
What is 100% exact how you run it on the street? FULL tank of fuel, economy tune, 40PSI tyre preesure, tools, spare, subs and a baby seat, the missus and kid, dash mat that fall down when you mash the go pedal, CD's a water bottle, the list goes on.
Pretty much EVERY one of us modifies there car in some way when they go to the strip, be it by dropping the tyre pressure, or taking out that damned dash mat, and the CD case.

Ahh so thats where I lost my 1/2 second.. the wet sponge in the tub and my number plate protector was still on...

I run my car as I brought her to the track, simple as that and as I'm lazy, what is on her during the week, stays on her for race day. She's a slow car, so I don't bother with tyre pressures, etc.

At the end of the day there is no sheep stations in drag racing, get out there have fun and the only person you should be racing against is yourself

Oh and if we are playing 'street car' rules why the hell are you guys out doing burnouts?? Isn't that a no-no on the street???

Oh and I do think stripping a car down has its advantages for gaining quicker times

TZENU · 07-05-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melz

Oh and if we are playing 'street car' rules why the hell are you guys out doing burnouts?? Isn't that a no-no on the street???

What if your car can do a half decent burnout but cant do a half decent time? Isn't there room for people like us?

:

Melz · 07-05-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TZENU

What if your car can do a half decent burnout but cant do a half decent time? Isn't there room for people like us?

:

I'm with ya there brother... don't worry

TheSneakiness · 07-05-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

But removing seats and door trims is a bit far fetched.We are talking street cars.I remember a few years back seeing a car at the drags that had been completely stripped including the carpets and roof lining

pretty sure the car did run a great time and was even advertised as the quickest street car with that brand of car and engine ect.... in a few mags. :togo:The only drama was how the hell was his mates going to get a ride home

Reminds me of a red 80's something Honda Accord I saw at Willowbank the last time I was out there.

Completely stripped interior bar dash, steering wheel and drivers seat.

Quadcams · 07-05-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEMI POWER

I have had mine passed.Being driving on them for the last 2 odd years aswell and have had the car pulled up by the local cop.No mention of being illegal either.All i was informed on was that if it was a steel belted radial it's fine.Pretty sure the distributer has also had a check from the RTA on this same subject.

Next time it rains, put your MT streets on a go for a drive, down right dangerous, I have come home from the strip and it started raining, seriously struggled to get off the lights let alone use any throttle in any gear, if your driving on the street all the time your one mad fella.
Mate they aint legal and for a good reason.

Oh and people whining about weight reduced cars (definately not stripped) put a sock in it, no rules who cares what you do to achieve your numbers, as long as your honest about it.

**Stav** · 07-05-2008, 04:49 PM

Wow...guys.There are really 2 perspectives. If there is a record at the track..then why not take it...This is fine in its context. You can say that it is motorsport. Whenyou think of it that way it is fine.

For the guy on the street who occasionally drags down the strip it seems an unfair comparison to put the 2 side by side.

Its not cheating ,nor should there be any sour grapes. It really is a different class of car really.
For the compaqrison of apples with apples the only way to compare cars is just drive in off the street and race them. OR... race against someone who has done the exact same drags race sport orientated mods.
Please dont take potshots at each other.

For the record sake on this forum it does appear that the gloves are off.Good input from most of you guys .thanks.

Quadcams · 07-05-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Wow...guys.There are really 2 perspectives. If there is a record at the track..then why not take it...This is fine in its context. You can say that it is motorsport. Whenyou think of it that way it is fine.

For the guy on the street who occasionally drags down the strip it seems an unfair comparison to put the 2 side by side.

Its not cheating ,nor should there be any sour grapes. It really is a different class of car really.
For the compaqrison of apples with apples the only way to compare cars is just drive in off the street and race them. OR... race against someone who has done the exact same drags race sport orientated mods.
Please dont take potshots at each other.

For the record sake on this forum it does appear that the gloves are off.Good input from most of you guys .thanks.

For records the gloves are always been off on every forum mate.One thing you said Stav, for the guy off the street compare apples with apple, common sense really.

DABOSS · 07-05-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTGTP

I have found this whole 'sour grapes' attitude very disappointing Rob. I would have thought removing a passenger seat, and rear seat plus the spare wheel not quite stripping the whole car!

Where does one draw the line in the sand? I could argue that your car needs to go into another catagory also as you have a purpose built engine with Rods, Pistons, Cam Shafts, Diff gears, Pump Gears and High Stall.....the Hamburger with the lot! Hardly a level playing field either. Mine has diff gears and pump gears only - a stock standard engine, mate!

Get over it and let us enjoy what we worked hard to achieve. I don't remember Craig singing anything but your praises when you got you 12.4 something with a car a far cry from stock.

Gaela

Gaela Gaela Gaela , I'm bit shocked at your infomation regarding my so called purpose built engine , Which in fact if you we're to research aliitle more in detail would find out that it's a STOCK engine with cams and V- gears and pump gears no rods or piston here lady.

No bagging your times ( 11.96 good on ya ) just pointed out that their should be to class's for racing if claiming records full vs race weight.

As for me I've never taken weight out of mine , Dont care to be honest, it is what it is.

So in future research that little bit harder next and then speak your mind untill then keep stripping your car and race it!

Best of luck with the whole project.

Cheers Rob.

HEMI POWER · 07-05-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcams

Next time it rains, put your MT streets on a go for a drive, down right dangerous, I have come home from the strip and it started raining, seriously struggled to get off the lights let alone use any throttle in any gear, if your driving on the street all the time your one mad fella.
Mate they aint legal and for a good reason.

Oh and people whining about weight reduced cars (definately not stripped) put a sock in it, no rules who cares what you do to achieve your numbers, as long as your honest about it.

My car has them on as my true street tyre.I have driven in them in the rain aswell.There is a few friends of mine that run them on there streeters full time aswell.Don't know what all the hype is about them being dangerous actually i find them to be better than any street tyre i have used before.
I don't want to keep argueing about these tyres being legal or illegal ect..... this isn't the subject if you feel there not safe don't use them it's simple really.

HEMI POWER · 07-05-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DABOSS

Gaela Gaela Gaela , I'm bit shocked at your infomation regarding my so called purpose built engine , Which in fact if you we're to research aliitle more in detail would find out that it's a STOCK engine with cams and V- gears and pump gears no rods or piston here lady.

No bagging your times ( 11.96 good on ya ) just pointed out that their should be to class's for racing if claiming records full vs race weight.

As for me I've never taken weight out of mine , Dont care to be honest, it is what it is.

So in future research that little bit harder next and then speak your mind untill then keep stripping your car and race it!

Best of luck with the whole project.

Cheers Rob.

Rob i thought you had a turbo fitted to it.VVVVVVVVVVVOOOOOOOSH

MRHELE · 07-05-2008, 07:14 PM

When it come's to Drag Racing, the quickest guy win's, end of story!
Everyone is in the same boat, everyone has the option to strip their car's, spend more money etc etc, so contrary to what some might say, it is a level playing field.
"People will only remember the quickest a car has gone, not how it got there..."