HSV GTS LSA lettuce tomato & special sauce on a sesame seed bun

[Nikked]

At the end of the day...


Give the falcon 1000hp, handling like a F1 car and Bugatti like elegance...and it wont matter...half of AFF will dis-credit it for some reason and HSV will still sell double because its a HSV.


The point?

None...HSV have released a car built on the next generation expansion of the omega platform. All of a sudden FPV's efforts are useless, the world has ended and if you don't like the new GTS you are some sort of blind-eye-nobody.


Fact is, the GTS is a fantastic car going of the spec sheet, HSV have worked wonders on it...it will no doubt be credible on the track.


does this mean FPV are all of a sudden redundant?


Nope...

Its just awesome to see the our little island is host to these 4-door muscle cars, that take on the world...that's what matters.


And, yes, we are aloud to have an opinion on how something looks...and, yes we are aloud to challenge the performance numbers given...


What's rivalry without a rival?

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

He is staking the times made by journo;s as a basis for his statement? I have seen how they are done by journos and they ain't real scientific let me tell you

I know dynos are not the be all and end and really should only be used for tuning purposes ..... but really?

There are more buyers that rely on magazine reviews than internet forums. The GT R-spec has been fairly underwhelming in reviews (when it comes to performance numbers), after the initial 4.6s and 12.6 1/4mile review. Yes there are plenty of owners that have achieved great times on the strip but the same can be said for any car.

In direct comparisons the 300 SRT8, which is heavier, has thinner tyres (always a complaint about the FPV) and supposedly less power (350kw manufacturer claim), has equaled or bettered the GT R-spec times. If the GT does have 330rwkw then it's times are pretty disappointing.

FPV cannot simply change the badge number, they have to change the car itself. You are delusional if you think most people only care about the badge number. When you are buying a car $70+k, you want it so have some features other than a bigger engine (look at the sales figures). I've seen some posters state "I'd rather get a GS and get a tune, it'll equal the GTS in power then!", you are in the vast MINORITY and a manufacturer would be committing suicide catering to that small market.


FPV will need to invest in some technology to compete with HSV, if not then their numbers will slip even further into the abyss.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

I've seen some posters state "I'd rather get a GS and get a tune, it'll equal the GTS in power then!", you are in the vast MINORITY and a manufacturer would be committing suicide catering to that small market.

Is that why the XR6 Turbo has been so successful?

I suppose the GS needs a bit of price adjustment to better tap into the 'bang for your buck' cult market, the $100,000 GTS is clearly not aimed at that market. It's aimed at a much smaller one.

[Elks]

Kilowatts schmillowatts. 335 KW = 450 hp.

It's speed that matters. There is any number of stock 335's that have run a 12, with I think a 12.2 being the best of it. I know my GTE has run several 12's with a best of 12.43.@117 (I think) Cool night proper drag track, no spare but otherwise stock.

Now the GTE weighs in at a portly 1880kg for the car + 100kg for the driver less 20kg for the spare. So a total of 1960 kg. Now if you get out your Moroso Speed power calculator. The numbers don't gel.

I'm sure the GTS will be quicker, a little bit in a straight line and a lot on a circuit. But it's the next evolution rather than the game changer HSV make it out to be. Lets not forget the majority of HSV will be the N/a LS3. Back at 317 & 340 KW. Advertised, and they will still be ugly.

[flappist]

In the big picture guys, most are not going anywhere near a track and of those that do the majority will be on a short straight once or twice.

Any who have actually driven road cars, as in commodores and falcons, on a circuit will be aware that a squillion killerwasps and multi-phasic dihederal throbotron suspension will only allow you to see the EVOs etc for a second or two longer before they disappear off in the distance.

In a straight line on a sticky track with the right tyres some good times may be seen but on the usual polluted crappy roads where these vehicles spend the majority of their time only a tiny component of the available performance can actually engaged before traction is lost and the internal safety systems shut it all down.

If you like the GTS go and buy one. If you prefer FPV then buy one of them.

To me both marques have gone bezerk with styling and now the GT-E and F6-E have been discontinued nothing in either HSV's or FPV's stable really appeals to me at all.

[strik9]

does anyone have any idea what power the gts
could make with a tune? and the quality of the internals? people seem want to compare a tuned 335 to it.
i,m really interested if anyone wants to have a shot that has some realistic concept of its potential

[84dau]

What if ford made a GT coupe?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 84dau

What if ford made a GT coupe?

They do....

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/

[Uwish]

Originally Posted by 84dau

What if ford made a GT coupe?

We'd have a winner!
Ford need to step it up with the interior. Holden / HSV have done a great job and Ford need to follow suit.
Tech updates
Update the Interior
Get a decent Diff
and staggered wheels on all FPV models.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by strik9

does anyone have any idea what power the gts
could make with a tune? and the quality of the internals? people seem want to compare a tuned 335 to it.
i,m really interested if anyone wants to have a shot that has some realistic concept of its potential

They seem to go from about 460rwhp to around 490rwhp in in ZL1 Camaro's. Same platform as the GTS.

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by austyphoon

There are more buyers that rely on magazine reviews than internet forums. The GT R-spec has been fairly underwhelming in reviews (when it comes to performance numbers), after the initial 4.6s and 12.6 1/4mile review. Yes there are plenty of owners that have achieved great times on the strip but the same can be said for any car.

In direct comparisons the 300 SRT8, which is heavier, has thinner tyres (always a complaint about the FPV) and supposedly less power (350kw manufacturer claim), has equaled or bettered the GT R-spec times. If the GT does have 330rwkw then it's times are pretty disappointing.

FPV cannot simply change the badge number, they have to change the car itself. You are delusional if you think most people only care about the badge number. When you are buying a car $70+k, you want it so have some features other than a bigger engine (look at the sales figures). I've seen some posters state "I'd rather get a GS and get a tune, it'll equal the GTS in power then!", you are in the vast MINORITY and a manufacturer would be committing suicide catering to that small market.


FPV will need to invest in some technology to compete with HSV, if not then their numbers will slip even further into the abyss.

most falcons and commodores I've seen with around (335kw) 450hp at the wheels are running 12s down the quarter mile. sounds about right to me

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by Uwish

We'd have a winner!
Ford need to step it up with the interior. Holden / HSV have done a great job and Ford need to follow suit.
Tech updates
Update the Interior
Get a decent Diff
and staggered wheels on all FPV models.

I reckon go opposite. A bare bones "racer" at half the GTS price that wipes the floor of HSV's. Who needs electric park brakes, heated electric seats etc!
A real drivers car, not some fancy look at me and all my gizmos car.
After all, most the talk on here is about power outputs and track times.

[f6 boss]

in the states people are getting about 40hp with a tune only, reason being it has an aggressive tune from GM already

Lets not forget the majority of HSV will be the N/a LS3. Back at 317 & 340 KW. Advertised, and they will still be ugly

I think come early 2014 the rest of the non GTS hsv line up would get the new LT1 engine 5.5ltr that is debuting in the new c7 corvette. This engine comes with very cool features just search it.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Scooter

I reckon go opposite. A bare bones "racer" at half the GTS price that wipes the floor of HSV's. Who needs electric park brakes, heated electric seats etc!
A real drivers car, not some fancy look at me and all my gizmos car.
After all, most the talk on here is about power outputs and track times.

Problem with that is its a limited market. If they did bring a hardcore stripped out GT into the market it'd go the same way as the XR8, F6E, GTE, F6X. People will complain when its gone, but nobody bought them when they were actually for sale.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by f6 boss

I think come early 2014 the rest of the non GTS hsv line up would get the new LT1 engine 5.5ltr that is debuting in the new c7 corvette. This engine comes with very cool features just search it.

The LT1 has already been revealed as a 6.2 with DI and VCT, producing 450 hp and 450 lb ft.
While no 7.0 litre Corvette engine, I don't think it would take much to get the HP and torque to that level..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

To me both marques have gone bezerk with styling and now the GT-E and F6-E have been discontinued nothing in either HSV's or FPV's stable really appeals to me at all.

I am surprised that FPV stopped that side of the business, I would have thought that outsourcing
interiors to boutique trimmers would be an excellent way to add a custom finish and feel to those vehicles.

[Rodge]

I have little doubt that a reasonable number of FPV owners, (myself probably included), will have a look at the GTS, and some will be brave / silly enough to ask for a change-over figure, (doubtful I'll be that stupid). I think the vast majority of those, when they see the amount of money they're asking to change-over will think to themselves, actually my FPV is a bloody awesome car and if that's all they'll give me as a trade-in price they can go **** themselves.

After 8 years of dominance since the Typhoon first came out in 2005, HSV probably,(and not before time), have the performance wood over FPV... BUT it doesn't mean the world has ended. FPV owners still have fantastic cars that are far better value for money. From a technology and equipment point of view i'm really pleased they've made the GTS, if people want the kit they now have the chance to anti-up and buy it without paying Merc E63 or BMW M5 money. The customer is the winner as we all now have more choice and I am hopeful or a solid response from Ford in due course..

[jpd80]

If FPV was to offered a new GT with R-Spec and intercooler, all at a price 20,000 less than the GTS, how many fans would be enticed?

I have a feeling that the majority of buyers remain tribal and loyal to their brand with just a few who float depending on offerings and price.

What's more important than the GTS is how Ford or FPV responds to the entire refreshed HSV range until the 2014 car arrives.
FPV buyers are asking for a reason to go buy a new car but if its still the same as the one they already have then what's the point?
Perhaps it's time to increase power and equipment levels in GS and GT to give buyers encouragement to keep buying improving cars..

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If FPV was to offered a new GT with R-Spec and intercooler, all at a price 20,000 less than the GTS, how many fans would be enticed?

As long as it has the kit we talked about recently, adaptive cruise, blind spot, lane departure and a proper high end stereo system and it has genuinely fresh styling as some have taked about on here you can count me in for a new GT-P R Spec !

I can make do just fine without forged wheels, disc brakes any bigger than the current 6/4 Brembo's, heads up display and some of the other trinkets.

[strik9]

Originally Posted by f6 boss

in the states people are getting about 40hp with a tune only, reason being it has an aggressive tune from GM already



I think come early 2014 the rest of the non GTS hsv line up would get the new LT1 engine 5.5ltr that is debuting in the new c7 corvette. This engine comes with very cool features just search it.

cheers, i,m heavily debating getting one. but with such a small margin for extra rwkw. not sure its worth it. it is growing on me with all the extra tech too it.

i do always seem to find my way back for the rush of the f6 though. i had the 335 with a tune but after a while found myself looking for the rush. haha

so if they were pulling an extra 70rwkw out of them like the 335 i,d be in,but 20rwkw are nope can't say it,d be worth living on the couch

[Nic85]

What do you guys make of Hyundai's plans to now sell the new generation Genesis sedan over here next year? Word is either a reworked 3.8L V6, the new twin turbo 3.3L V6 or the 5L V8.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Nic85

What do you guys make of Hyundai's plans to now sell the new generation Genesis sedan over here next year? Word is either a reworked 3.8L V6, the new twin turbo 3.3L V6 or the 5L V8.

Off topic and I'm yawning already, who cares....

Here's some interesting technical stuff on the new LT1 engine that was referred too above.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar136830.html

Looks interesting but in my book "boost is best"

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Off topic and I'm yawning already, who cares....

Here's some interesting technical stuff on the new LT1 engine that was referred too above.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...-ar136830.html

Looks interesting but in my book "boost is best"

Oh, sorry, I thought you may have got the connection. It will be in a way a competitor to both the FPV and HSV cars, much the same way as the 300C is. 4 doors, V8 engine etc etc.

[Rodge]

Didn't mean to offend mate, I just don't think many people see the Genesis as a genuine competitor whereas the Chrysler SRT8 has the cred to be bracketed in the same group in my opinion.

Hmmm, I wonder how long it will be before SRT supercharge the 6.4 Hemi to join-in the forced induction power war ?

[flooded one]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Didn't mean to offend mate, I just don't think many people see the Genesis as a genuine competitor whereas the Chrysler SRT8 has the cred to be bracketed in the same group in my opinion.

Hmmm, I wonder how long it will be before SRT supercharge the 6.4 Hemi to join-in the forced induction power war ?

If its cheaper and goes as fast or faster it will be. I have heard good things about the Genesis. will have too wait and see. the SRT8 seems too be forgotten in this argument but yes it does deserve too be in the same group

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Hmmm, I wonder how long it will be before SRT supercharge the 6.4 Hemi to join-in the forced induction power war ?

Don't see why they would with the Vipers V10 sitting around.

[Random Ranger]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Didn't mean to offend mate, I just don't think many people see the Genesis as a genuine competitor whereas the Chrysler SRT8 has the cred to be bracketed in the same group in my opinion.

Just like the other imports we thought weren't contenders with the falcon and commodores a few short years ago and are now the cause of the demise of said falcodores?

[strik9]

Originally Posted by wildrider

If its cheaper and goes as fast or faster it will be. I have heard good things about the Genesis. will have too wait and see. the SRT8 seems too be forgotten in this argument but yes it does deserve too be in the same group

ok if we are even thinking of adding that. my votes in for the ford festiva just cause it has a draw under the passanger seat for chics shoes. ( couldnt help myself. we are going so far off topic)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Don't see why they would with the Vipers V10 sitting around.

Because it doesn't fit in anything other than Viper and Ram Truck?

Originally Posted by Random Ranger

Just like the other imports we thought weren't contenders with the falcon and commodores a few short years ago and are now the cause of the demise of said falcodores?

Combined sales of 300 are around 200/mth, I think it's a long bow to
suggest that Chrysler 300 is responsible for either HSV or FPV's demise..

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by strik9

ok if we are even thinking of adding that. my votes in for the ford festiva just cause it has a draw under the passanger seat for chics shoes. ( couldnt help myself. we are going so far off topic)

Difference is the Genesis may be sold as a V8, ANY 4 door, V8 sold here is in the same market as Falcon/Commodore/300C.