My FGX XR8 denied warranty - Page 19

duaned · 02-05-2015, 10:54 PM

I still don't know if it has been mentioned, but how the hell does a tune and / or a few WOT runs damage a supercharger? The Diff, gearbox etc. I can understand. Deny warranty on these. Would Ford replace the alternator, air con pump etc. if they had failed knowing the car had been at the drags? These components spin proportionate to the blower. I'm glad I changed camps.

WILDB · 02-05-2015, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaned

I still don't know if it has been mentioned, but how the hell does a tune and / or a few WOT runs damage a supercharger? The Diff, gearbox etc. I can understand. Deny warranty on these. Would Ford replace the alternator, air con pump etc. if they had failed knowing the car had been at the drags? These components spin proportionate to the blower. I'm glad I changed camps.

Having a tune would be grounds to void the driveline warranty which would include the supercharger.

Obviously the tune won't have caused the failure - but it has been the cause of the warranty being declined. That counts for any manufacturer - Holden included.

Shonky. · 02-05-2015, 11:11 PM

bit like if you hit a parked car and then later find out that its unregistered

you probably have a legal out

whether you choose to use it or not speaks volumes about your integrity

cheap · 02-05-2015, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Seems after 18 pages of speculation some still don't get what the issue is here...

Especially when there are multiple issues involved. So which issue do you think you're commenting on?

**Falcon Coupe** · 02-05-2015, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Especially when there are multiple issues involved. So which issue do you think you're commenting on?

Looking at post #341
The alleged "unjustified flash" would be an instant deal breaker if found to be true.
The rest is "additional information".

GTP534 · 03-05-2015, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

^ no unscrewing was mentioned, so why would you throw such a red herring out there? Do you work for Ford?

I thought your post was the red herring. Now you've just confirmed that the amplifier in your example hadn't been "unscrewed" or opened.

In this case Ford, wrongly or rightly, declined warranty on the basis they considered the car to have been modified due to irregularities in the tune.

Generally speaking, as you were, if any equipment shows signs of being tampered with or opened the chances of warranty being declined increase.

I don't work for Ford.

Shonky. · 03-05-2015, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

It's interesting we see the forums as the world. It isn't. Every forum has the best examples of issues, they attract those examples by their very nature. It's a cry for help, sometimes justified, sometimes not. In my own world circle. I have people that don't push the boundary of their warranty. And there is a very very good dealer here we are lucky to have that I've heard very few negatives about. And by experience it s the same, it's those that push the boundary of their warranty that end up disenchanted. Or have a crap dealer that just don't handle their issues appropriately. The venom in this thread is far more disenchanting to me than any warranty experience I or any of my circle of friends and acquaintances have ever had. Many statements suggesting we should attract goodwill and gestures from FoA in between a river of posts kicking FoA for not blindly backing their products so we can do with them whatever we feel like for 3 years from purchases and not pay to play.

I'm not referring to Kempys situation, this thread has gone far beyond that. Maybe I'm just an old fart and I miss the days we used to come on here and enjoy the brand and our cars.

Solid post.

I agree with and like your way of thinking, in that many people do think we here on the forums are a perfectly representative sample of the greater population, when we most certainly are not. Massive selection bias going on.

But that is where our views diverge a bit. We are different and non-representative of the population because we are car enthusiasts.
We bring a greater number of complaints, demand greater service and expect more for our cars than most. But the kicker is many of us, particularly the ones who have bought new Fords in the last few years, and particularly the dearer ones have more than one car now, and have had more than one car in this period and some have even moved to other brands to escape this kind of treatment and reported very positive results.

Some of the guys on here also own BMW, Lotus, Holden, Toyota, all manner of brands, and to me the common theme is they get looked after much better, the way they should be with such an expensive purchase.

this comment is what made me feel compelled to reply

"Many statements suggesting we should attract goodwill and gestures from FoA in between a river of posts kicking FoA for not blindly backing their products so we can do with them whatever we feel like for 3 years from purchases and not pay to play"

I don't think any of the complaints I read here on a daily basis amount to seeking goodwill.

Goodwill to me occurs when someone goes above and beyond.

What most people are so angry about is they want the minimum standard.

They want what other companies customers get

They want want they get when they purchase other consumer goods

They want what is afforded to them under consumer laws

Before we can start talking about goodwill Ford need to rise up from the bottom and reach minimum standard.

Back to the forums community vs the greater population.

As I said earlier we are car enthusiasts so are more demanding, but we are also more passionate, greater advocates and most importantly can't stop talking about our interest. When people want to buy a car they ask us, not the guys on cat forums or the like.

When a car enthusiast turns up they should know from the questions they ask, the presentation of the vehicle and what they want.

If Ford staff are not dangerously dim they should recognise that they can make things easier for themselves by not serving up the usual "they all do that" to someone who knows about and likes cars

If Ford staff were clever they would realise that these customers are as close as they now have to a marketing function.

My parents have no interest in cars. Never have. But I have heard them tell people who sledge the falcon as being a dinosaur that it is very good. Because that is what I tell them. Social proof in motion.

Below is a picture of the inner wheel well of my 3 year old Ford.

When my car was 3 months old a service gimp told me that the dirty big scratches all over the car were there when I dropped it off. He suggested that I would not have noticed them before I dropped it off, but was now scrutinising it because it had been in his shop.

They were doing warranty work on that part of the car.

Do I seem like the kind of person who wouldn't notice that?

SensationFG8 · 03-05-2015, 09:45 AM

Shonky, I think that about sums it up.

I have a creak in the steering wheel they tried to fix up, I'm dreading getting the "they all do that" I'll be given when I report it's still happening.

Reality is we shouldn't be fearing dealing with the company on basic quality and warranty issues but many do. I hope the dealer I'm going too now is better than all the others, they were at sale time and so far they seem to be making an effort to resolve things that are reported. Time will tell.

cheap · 03-05-2015, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Looking at post #341
The alleged "unjustified flash" would be an instant deal breaker if found to be true.
The rest is "additional information".

Good, so we agree "additional information" = issues

**MercurySilver** · 03-05-2015, 11:26 AM

so have we got to the bottom of the so called tune this cars had?
when they plug it in does it come up with dates and times when tunes/flashes were done?
id say thats a no otherwise this would all be put to bed already yeah?

if kempy is saying its not tuned im likely to believe said statement
lying would make you look like a complete twat on here and im sure youd cop a whack from posters

ford once told me i couldnt get my diff bushes changed under warranty
why?
because it cost $800 to do it yet all warranty claims only could go up to $500
luckily i had conversed with a ford service guy by email and said i want these fixed under wattanty and he agreed
that email became proof and got me thru
but ill tell you this
the service and treatment was *****
yeah im talking to you old port road ford

STEALTHY · 03-05-2015, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Seems after 18 pages of speculation some still don't get what the issue is here...

I'm only on page 11, and there's no more posts.

Did 7 pages just get deleted?

**Falcon Coupe** · 03-05-2015, 11:45 AM

Depends whether or not you are using the forum default for number of posts per page shown in options.

99AUXR · 03-05-2015, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Solid post.

I agree with and like your way of thinking, in that many people do think we here on the forums are a perfectly representative sample of the greater population, when we most certainly are not. Massive selection bias going on.

But that is where our views diverge a bit. We are different and non-representative of the population because we are car enthusiasts.
We bring a greater number of complaints, demand greater service and expect more for our cars than most. But the kicker is many of us, particularly the ones who have bought new Fords in the last few years, and particularly the dearer ones have more than one car now, and have had more than one car in this period and some have even moved to other brands to escape this kind of treatment and reported very positive results.

Some of the guys on here also own BMW, Lotus, Holden, Toyota, all manner of brands, and to me the common theme is they get looked after much better, the way they should be with such an expensive purchase.

this comment is what made me feel compelled to reply

"Many statements suggesting we should attract goodwill and gestures from FoA in between a river of posts kicking FoA for not blindly backing their products so we can do with them whatever we feel like for 3 years from purchases and not pay to play"

I don't think any of the complaints I read here on a daily basis amount to seeking goodwill.

Goodwill to me occurs when someone goes above and beyond.

What most people are so angry about is they want the minimum standard.

They want what other companies customers get

They want want they get when they purchase other consumer goods

They want what is afforded to them under consumer laws

Before we can start talking about goodwill Ford need to rise up from the bottom and reach minimum standard.

Back to the forums community vs the greater population.

As I said earlier we are car enthusiasts so are more demanding, but we are also more passionate, greater advocates and most importantly can't stop talking about our interest. When people want to buy a car they ask us, not the guys on cat forums or the like.

When a car enthusiast turns up they should know from the questions they ask, the presentation of the vehicle and what they want.

If Ford staff are not dangerously dim they should recognise that they can make things easier for themselves by not serving up the usual "they all do that" to someone who knows about and likes cars

If Ford staff were clever they would realise that these customers are as close as they now have to a marketing function.

My parents have no interest in cars. Never have. But I have heard them tell people who sledge the falcon as being a dinosaur that it is very good. Because that is what I tell them. Social proof in motion.

Below is a picture of the inner wheel well of my 3 year old Ford.

When my car was 3 months old a service gimp told me that the dirty big scratches all over the car were there when I dropped it off. He suggested that I would not have noticed them before I dropped it off, but was now scrutinising it because it had been in his shop.

They were doing warranty work on that part of the car.

Do I seem like the kind of person who wouldn't notice that?

image

My room doesnt even look half as tidy as that

08G63T · 03-05-2015, 02:12 PM

The car bouncing off rev limiter was being talked about earlier and mentioned that this is abusing the car.

If the car is in neutral, it'll only rev to about 3k or 3.5k revs or something like that before it hits the limiter and this throws a code.
My FG's done this.

Would this argument hold up with ford?

**EASYBOSS** · 03-05-2015, 03:04 PM

Just wondering, could plugging in a scan tool trigger a possible "unjustified flash" trigger

STEALTHY · 03-05-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Depends whether or not you are using the forum default for number of posts per page shown in options.

I think you missed the sarcasm

I only refer to post numbers as they dont change even if people use 10 posts per page because they live in the 90s with dial up...

Franco Cozzo · 03-05-2015, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

Just wondering, could plugging in a scan tool trigger a possible "unjustified flash" trigger

You'd have to write something to the ECU I reckon to get the flag rather than just read and clear codes.

I don't know for sure but thats how I assume it would work.

**EASYBOSS** · 03-05-2015, 03:43 PM

Are you not sending something to it with a scan tool, to get a reply, to read the ECU

mik · 03-05-2015, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duaned

I still don't know if it has been mentioned, but how the hell does a tune and / or a few WOT runs damage a supercharger? The Diff, gearbox etc. I can understand. Deny warranty on these. Would Ford replace the alternator, air con pump etc. if they had failed knowing the car had been at the drags? These components spin proportionate to the blower. I'm glad I changed camps.

just postulating , but over revving the blower probably might have some consequences ? and that could possibly occur with a tune if the red line was raised i would imagine, or if you where to buzz the engine in an extreme way, or if it had a pulley change .

even those things seem a bit unlikely in normal road use, they put blowers on jaguars, if they failed every 5 minutes no one would use them .
without knowing all circumstances how can anyone know ,
but if i was a betting man id put my money on a fault.

how many blokes with blown henrys have had blowers fail ???

**Fordman1** · 03-05-2015, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

Are you not sending something to it with a scan tool, to get a reply, to read the ECU

Seriously, do you guys think that "plugging" something into the ECU has caused this issue ?

I think there is something that has been DONE to the software that has caused the RED-FLAG.

geckoGT · 03-05-2015, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

This was happening on the release of the BA, way back on the "old forum".
Lots & lots of warranty claims denied through stuff posted there.
Spooly or Russell would remember...

I remember very well, my warranty claim on my BAI XR8 was denied as they found details on AFF regarding my tunes and modifications. The result was voiding my entire drive train warranty.

The warranty claim ended up being approved after contact with the CRC as the claim was for timing chain rattle and there was ample evidence this was a design fault in the timing chain adjusters and not a result of my modifications.

The initial claim was denied due to my mods but Ford were very good about it when we did some logical discussion and negotiation.

I might add that that was all on a BAI XR8 auto that was running 13.3 on the 1/4 mile (obviously way outside the original capabilities of that model) which they knew about. They accepted that the fault was a known design issue and not related to my modifications or use so they honoured the warranty in that instance.

99AUXR · 03-05-2015, 05:29 PM

I dont see reading code/clearing being an issue but what if the KAM (Keep Alive Memory), containing all adaptive values and fuel trim data was reset?

But even then I think it would require the tables in the PCM to be modified to flag anything.

Franco Cozzo · 03-05-2015, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

Are you not sending something to it with a scan tool, to get a reply, to read the ECU

It just sends a message to the ECU to attempt to clear all faults, rather than flashing the ECU with new fuel/spark tables.

**Elks** · 03-05-2015, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Solid post.

Do I seem like the kind of person who wouldn't notice that?

image

Dude, you haven't even noticed your wheel fell off.

and I'm outta here

Yellow_Festiva · 03-05-2015, 09:11 PM

I'm curious...

All this talk of taking the car to the track causing it to void the warranty.

What was the big 'no no' here? The track or how it was driven?

Say the owner lived in the NT and used the unlimited road on a regular basis. At times, they would boot it off the mark just for the fun of it.

If something went bang, what would be the 'out' for the repair then??? Would there be one? Don't these engines have enough built in safety measures to stop damage from happening before it does?

Would we even be here?

Back when I had the Festiva I would pay the tolls on the M5 with coins just so I could flog it to 100 from a stand still to see how good it went... just for the fun of it.

Had something gone bang what grounds could they deny a claim on? Had I did this on the track then it becomes a motorsport event.

I'm betting that they didn't count on the OP making such a fuss and getting so much support here. I wonder if Ford will provide an apology if the car is repaired... Saying a car is tuned when the owner strongly states it isn't is lying.

I wonder when Ford will adopt the 'all things on paper' idea when declining claims?

Hell, I can't even request a $5 item at work without it going through the email system and getting a response.

cheap · 03-05-2015, 09:28 PM

^ which is one of the "additional information/issues", Ford builds and markets the XR8 with an emphasis on POWER, but:

Unless you live/drive in the NT, you can't legally give it a bootfull on public roads for more than 5-6 seconds without breaking the law. If you want to be a law abiding citizen and take it to the drag strip, where you give it a bootfull for say 14 seconds, then your warranty is at risk. May as well buy a Hyundai!

Express · 04-05-2015, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm betting that they didn't count on the OP making such a fuss and getting so much support here. I wonder if Ford will provide an apology if the car is repaired... Saying a car is tuned when the owner strongly states it isn't is lying.

Repairing the car would be apology enough for me. Then I'd be happy for Ford and I to just move on.

chrisandsharon · 04-05-2015, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Back when I had the Festiva I would pay the tolls on the M5 with coins just so I could flog it to 100 from a stand still to see how good it went... just for the fun of it.

Ah the good old toll gates......I reckon they saw more 1/4 mile action/drag racing than all the combined race meets at Eastern Creek.

**PepeLePew** · 04-05-2015, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm curious...

I'm betting that they didn't count on the OP making such a fuss and getting so much support here. I wonder if Ford will provide an apology if the car is repaired... Saying a car is tuned when the owner strongly states it isn't is lying.

.

When we read back Kempy has actually said very little. What he has posted has hit a nerve and the thread has grown a life of it's own.

As for the red flag, if it's been detected by whatever tools they use that the tune has been altered at some stage, stating that is not a lie. FoA is not a person (or a oil company referring to climate change) and is not driven by emotion. Actually when you think about it when large companies wish to be deceptive (no suggestion FoA is), they lie by omission. Even misdirection is dangerous ground rarely tread on (fracking excluded). If that finding is incorrect on the tune Ford best find out why their tool has failed them and make amends with the owner on that subject. All will be revealed in time.

Side note: I'd like to apologize on my own behalf to the FoA employees on this forum. We've greeted them with open arms (posts?) and they've engaged heavily with the community over this difficult transition time to shutdown and the loss of an Australian icon in the Falcon. I'm sure many have smarted reading some of the posts in this thread. They are not 'spies', FoA have I'm sure a wonderful internet connection of their own and suitable equipment to surf this forum (wouldn't they have a whole area dedicated to warranty?), and I strongly doubt one of our resident enthusiasts had ANYTHING to do with Kempy's photos ending up in FoA hands.

Waiting with interest on the outcome of this thread.

TheSneakiness · 04-05-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

When we read back Kempy has actually said very little. What he has posted has hit a nerve and the thread has grown a life of it's own.

As for the red flag, if it's been detected by whatever tools they use that the tune has been altered at some stage, stating that is not a lie. FoA is not a person (or a oil company referring to climate change) and is not driven by emotion. Actually when you think about it when large companies wish to be deceptive (no suggestion FoA is), they lie by omission. Even misdirection is dangerous ground rarely tread on (fracking excluded). If that finding is incorrect on the tune Ford best find out why their tool has failed them and make amends with the owner on that subject. All will be revealed in time.

Side note: I'd like to apologize on my own behalf to the FoA employees on this forum. We've greeted them with open arms (posts?) and they've engaged heavily with the community over this difficult transition time to shutdown and the loss of an Australian icon in the Falcon. I'm sure many have smarted reading some of the posts in this thread. They are not 'spies', FoA have I'm sure a wonderful internet connection of their own and suitable equipment to surf this forum (wouldn't they have a whole area dedicated to warranty?), and I strongly doubt one of our resident enthusiasts had ANYTHING to do with Kempy's photos ending up in FoA hands.

Waiting with interest on the outcome of this thread.

Good post, I think people just need to settle down and let Kempy and Ford work out what has happened and let it play out that way.

News will come when either is ready to share.