My FGX XR8 denied warranty

[kempy311]

I thought I would come on here and tell the story of my fgx xr8 which has just under 8000kms on it. I have seen that there was another post on it which was closed but I don't care about it being on a public forum now.

The car was denied warranty on the supercharger based solely on that it had been down the drag strip and this then therefore adds to my character and manor of my driving. Even thou it is unrelated as this was month and months ago.

The car itself as no engine mods other then a air filter and no tune. The whole reason it hasn't been tuned yet was to keep the warranty. There was no point hiding it has been down the strip as the ford rep came armed with photos from this forum to the dealership.

Apparently it's the ford engineering department that has denied it as it's not a manufacturing fault. Not sure how they can tell that because the dealership looked at it for 15mins. Not to mention it took 2 weeks for them to tell me that.
I now have a dead car that sounds like a meat mincer siting at home that no longer has any drive line warranty left because it was driven like a performance car should be.

Some may say it's my own fault but I honestly think it's pretty pathetic on fords behalf.

[Whitey-AMG]

It's unfortunate.
Going to a drag strip is a Motorsport event and that type of activity excludes it from the warranty conditions. That's life.

What's ironic is that we all like to read about these cars in the magazines and see how they fare on the dyno, at the track and down the 1/4 mile. It helps to sell these cars and FPV and HSV benefit from it.

Kind of makes you wonder why they even bother spending 40 mil on engine development and suspension tweeks and bolting on wheel and tyre combos capable of 300klm/h speeds if they are excluding the odd blast down the 1/4 as premise for total engine destruction. They reportedly do hundreds of thousands of test Kim in their reliability and endurance testing, yet 12 seconds seems to kill em....LOL.

Anyways , we can bleet all we want and I'm sure many of us on here are bleeding for ya. But at the end of the day, the warranty conditions are clear and it it is what it is.

I even questioned the FPV drive day when it was my turn to go as it was stated that Ford FPV may not cover any engine or driveline destruction on the day for that event either.

You play , you pay - you pay and you pay some more.
Sucks.

[devilcv8]

It sucks doesn't it, or should I say it blows.
All you were doing was confirming ford' own performance statistics.....

On a serious note, surely you had number plates removed, vin covered etc to avoid identification of the car.

[geobar]

There has to be a way for them not to be able to weasel out of this!! If it was driveline failure then sure, but a faulty SC!! COME ON!!

Even on a drag strip the SC did not experience any additional stress than it was designed for!! They spent millions on getting this engine right even to protect itself if it was working to hard and Kempy didn't change any of those parameters in the way of a tune!

Not sure where to from here for you wether your going to fight it or not... good news for you though your on the west side so you have plenty of options to upgrade it. I do hope it does go in the direction you want though!!

George

[Stefan]

Why does this suprise people? I thought this was common knowledge. Racers use to remove number plates and gaffa tape over all ID numbers at the track as it was common knowledge ford kept records of cars at the track.

Live and learn

What is wrong with your car?

Edit as for ford track day I thought warranty was only denied if you participated in a timed motorsport event? Is the ford track day timed?

[Brazen]

Ford is pathetic, you cannot proudly proclaim how fast and powerful your new supercharged V8 is and then deny someone warranty when someone uses it for what it is intented for.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Why does this suprise people? I thought this was common knowledge. Racers use to remove number plates and gaffa tape over all ID numbers at the track as it was common knowledge ford kept records of cars at the track.

Live and learn

What is wrong with your car?

Edit as for ford track day I thought warranty was only denied if you participated in a timed motorsport event? Is the ford track day timed?

It's not classified as a "track day" per se. It's a "drive day experience". Top speeds are limited, you don't need a helmet or a cams license to participate.
There are however timed events...lol. The motorkhana and slalom was timed and at the end of the day they gave out certificates for the winner of the day overall. That was waaaay back in 2008 when I did mine anyways.

[Trump]

So the question begs to be asked, how do Ford know your car was raced at the drag strip?

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

So the question begs to be asked, how do Ford know your car was raced at the drag strip?

Pictures from this forum

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by kempy311

Pictures from this forum

That settles it for me, will post pictures of my cars on forums to a minimal now, stuff it.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

That settles it for me, will post pictures of my cars on forums to a minimal now, stuff it.

Personally like to see the forum administrators cease their relationship with Ford Australia as a protest.

No more launch media events, no more hosting marketing QandA sessions, no more publishing press releases as stickys.

The drag was months ago, and the car was fine after. So when the fault came up they went through months of ford forums posts as an out.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Personally like to see the forum administrators cease their relationship with Ford Australia as a protest.

No more launch media events, no more hosting marketing QandA sessions, no more publishing press releases as stickys.

You're behind the times....the people of Australia have already voted with their wallets and the falcon is already dead. Australia's love affair with Ford ended years ago regardless. In fact I reckon the forums banter and traffic will also take a dive. Without new falcon models to talk about we'll be left talking about how we find spare parts for superchargers and which plastic welders do the best bumper bar resto job.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

That settles it for me, will post pictures of my cars on forums to a minimal now, stuff it.

Hey G

Ford Australia wont warrant either of your XCs or the ZH anymore mate!

[78xcgxl]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Hey G

Ford Australia wont warrant either of your XCs or the ZH anymore mate!

Haha Not the point i was trying to put across. Just goes to show how people can use pictures or info on your cars on the net that will bite in you in the *** later.

Like for example someone could say my car with such and such Rego littered or chucked a cigarette out the window out of jealously etc

[Trump]

Originally Posted by 78xcgxl

That settles it for me, will post pictures of my cars on forums to a minimal now, stuff it.

I always figured it was an unwritten rule of posting stuff on the internet to never post photos of yourself or your belongings that can be used to identify or indict you.
Then again, Facebook wouldn't exist if it was the case...

Kempy, you're not done yet. Take it to another dealer, get some heat onto the Ford CSC (if they have even been involved yet) and get this sorted in your favour.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

So the question begs to be asked, how do Ford know your car was raced at the drag strip?

One could also "assume" that from his sig as a starting point........
Circumstantial evidence as well as pics.

[Brazen]

Funny that Ford doesnt want people to use the XR8 at the track.

When from the forum the XR8 Program manager said at the vehicle media launch to a Ford forum invitee:

"Tomorrow with this weather you are driving a 370kw car. When we are at Winton I want you to turn the traction control off and give it everything you can!"

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11428879



or what about what another Ford employee a Ford engineer said about the new XR8:

"It's good for a 0-100km/h time in the high fours," says one engineer. "Expect consistent 4.7-second runs."

http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-revi...127-3larj.html
So they want buyers to do this on the street??


Or what about how the car has launch control? What for if you cant use it?

Next we headed over to the straight for acceleration and brake testing in the automatic model.
We started at the bottom end of the straight with the transmission in drive (not sports mode) with one foot on the brake the other pushing the accelerator to the floor. The tacho shows around 2500rpm then simply let the brake go and you're off! The read end squats, hooks up then accelerates very fast!
300 meters away on the right an orange cone signalled the braking point a short distance after a line of cones to brake into basically simulated braking from high speed and steering around an object appearing in front of the car on the road.

We had two runs each at this with all of us claiming to have seen over 160kph before braking, it was likely 170kph but one doesn't look at the speedo that close to the braking point as it comes up very fast!

The team behind this car is without a doubt very passionate and proud of what they have achieved. Their aim was to not only build the best overall Falcon ever but also the best hero car they could.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11428879



Tell them to get stuffed.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Funny that Ford doesnt want people to use the XR8 at the track.

When from the forum the XR8 Program manager said at the vehicle media launch to a Ford forum invitee:


http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11428879



or what about what another Ford employee a Ford engineer said about the new XR8:

http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-revi...127-3larj.html
So they want buyers to do this on the street??


Or what about how the car has launch control? What for if you cant use it?



http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11428879



Tell them to get stuffed.

This would be good evidence in Court.

[Spurious]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

This would be good evidence in Court.

I would agree. I read every word & watched the clips.
I would advice you, Kempy351, to download a copy of those videos if you havn't already.

My only question after watching the clips is directed to forum members Falcon Coupe & Flappist.
My question is, how many kilometres had the gold FGX XR8 done when you first jumped in at the beginning of the media launch?...

...'cause you promptly tramped it on the motorkhana course!

[sbutler]

I think Kempy311 has a good case. Yes he did drag the car, but as has been said, this in no way can put undue stress on the SC as its running all the time just like the engine. So how would dragging the car have anything to do with the SC?
8000Ks is also a point, you can [under the law], expect a product to perform its intended task for a reasonable period. As this isn't drive line related. In this case 8000Ks in not beyond a reasonable period.. 180,000 then yes you have your moneys worth.

I would go on with this. I dont think its unreasonable to expect your car to last more than 8000Ks.. The sticking point would be the drag strip/motorsport issue. But if you can get an engineer to attest to the fact that dragging the car hasn't caused the damage, I think your on solid ground..
Just my opinion...

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by sbutler

I think Kempy311 has a good case. Yes he did drag the car, but as has been said, this in no way can put undue stress on the SC as its running all the time just like the engine. So how would dragging the car have anything to do with the SC?
8000Ks is also a point, you can [under the law], expect a product to perform its intended task for a reasonable period. As this isn't drive line related. In this case 8000Ks in not beyond a reasonable period.. 180,000 then yes you have your moneys worth.

I would go on with this. I dont think its unreasonable to expect your car to last more than 8000Ks.. The sticking point would be the drag strip/motorsport issue. But if you can get an engineer to attest to the fact that dragging the car hasn't caused the damage, I think your on solid ground..
Just my opinion...

This is pretty good advice moving in the right direction. Thinking about your situation a little further, I think you may have some prospects under the statutory fit for purpose Federal/State legislation, despite my earlier comment.

1. Check the ford warranty, look for the exclusions regarding motorsport, etc, you need a good litigation solicitor who deals with insurance matters/commercial contract matters to interpret the clauses to see if Ford can rely on the motorsport/improper use clauses to wriggle out of their warranty.

2. Your strongest case (assuming the Ford warranty has a motorsport exclusion) would be to pursue the entity you purchased the vehicle from for unfit for purpose under the Australian Competition and Consumer Act, and depending on your state, the state legislation -"sales of goods act' etc, which also implies fit for purpose/merchantable quality into the contract.

You need an expert mechanical engineer (not just mechanic) to assess the supercharger, and give an expert opinion to the effect that operating it at a dragstrip x 3 runs given the revs and duration (are within the specs and design parameters of the Eaton- supercharger - lets assume you get this opinion) and if the expert says that it failed due to the bearings/etc and the bearings or whatever were defective, then it was not the use of the vehicle, which the Eaton has been designed for, but simply that the product was not fit for purpose and failed and was not merchantable.

You would then sue the person you purchased the vehicle from (by contract) as supplying a vehicle that was not fit for purpose under the Competition Consumer Act/Sales of Goods Act or whatever your State equivalent is, pleading contract and the implied federal and statutory implied warranties.

Assuming you get the expert evidence, you would have pretty good prospects of achieving a judgment, but it would not be cheap- ie expert fees, filing fees, legal costs.

But, assuming you did not tune it or do other mods and only did 3 runs at a drag, in all the circumstances it is bad form in terms of the dealer you bought the car from/Ford not managing the dealer. They are also trying to shift what is required in an evidentiary sense.

You do not have to prove a design fault or manufacturing fault, simply that it was not fit for purpose- and you do this as I detailed above, ie usage that the product was designed to do, failure not caused by modifications taking it out of the design usage parameters, and evidence that it failed - ie due to bearings failing etc- and was not fit for purpose, by expert opinion.

That is all that is required for the Court to determine product not fit for purpose.

But really, given what you say about no tune/engine mods, the dealer you bought it from should make good given the implied warranties for fit for purpose that will be implied into your purchase contract.

If you were revving the engine to 7,300 revs beyond the design parameters of the Eaton, and the excessive revolutions of the engine/super was causative of the failure, then the contracting dealer would be or more solid ground to reject, but if you were revving the engine and keeping the Eaton spinning within the Eaton specs, the dealer should make good.

Good luck.

[Road_Warrior]

Not good kempy, not good. Can I ask - how many runs did you do?

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Not good kempy, not good. Can I ask - how many runs did you do?

Think it was 3 because it was busy night.

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by kempy311

Think it was 3 because it was busy night.

How many km had it done? Reading your thread, it was at the drags only a few days after taking delivery.

[kempy311]

Originally Posted by CoupeXB

How many km had it done? Reading your thread, it was at the drags only a few days after taking delivery.

Can't exactly remember about 2000

[furiousgibbon]

McInerney? Dogs. They rejected a legitimate warranty claim I had for a broken pedal spring on my XR5. I'd also told them twice the pedal was sitting low and they told me there was no problem (i.e. they didn't even look at it). I had to figure out myself that it was the spring, and then they rejected the warranty claim anyway. Thanks.

I also reported an issue with squeaking seat bushes and the guy comes out and goes 'Recaros... mate these are aftermarket seats'. I just looked at him like 'you dumb c...'

Your situation sucks man but this has been the case for a long time. I've even read about people going to kwinana on wednesday nights (and other events) to record regos specifically for the purpose of voiding warranties.

Is there not a newish consumer protection clause that allows for claims outside of warranty of guarantee periods based on a consumer getting reasonable use out of a product? Basically you as a consumer have a reasonable expectation that you can accelerate from 0 to 180 (forget the dragstrip bit) without the supercharger breaking (edit: yes, what sbutler said). Not sure it would apply in this case, but don't give up yet.

[bingoTE50]

Bypass Fraud and go to the supplier of the charger.

[GazzF6]

Not good news mate.. :

You will either need to take it to a non Ford dealer and find out what has happened, obtain a detailed report, as the onus will be on you to prove that the failure was not in any way related to Drag Racing. Therefore it would need to be something that was out of correct specification from new, and has subsequently deteriorated over time leading to component failure, or remove the SC yourself and pay to have a third party investigate what has happened.

ALS. In Canning Vale have a department that that can dismantle, inspect and investigate components for failure analysis, they will then provide a comprehensive report on what has happened and the possible cause. If the report states a possible OEM issue you will have a better chance of a warranty claim.

http://www.alsglobal.com/en/Our-Serv...ls-Engineering

[Spurious]

These should help

https://www.accc.gov.au/

http://www.ombudsman.gov.au/

http://www.ford.com.au/newvehiclewarranties

http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/BlobS...lob&blobkey=id

For christ sake, if you read point 1 in the first paragraph of the last link I provided, it clearly states:

QUOTE: "Ford warrants to the Owner that it will during the Ford Vehicle Warranty Period, at its option, repair, replace or adjust free of charge at the premises of the Servicing Dealer any Part of the Vehicle which it finds to be defective in factory materials or workmanship under normal use and operation within Australia provided that:
(a) the Part has not become defective as a result or consequence of the Owner’s failure:
(i) to properly maintain, use or operate the Vehicle in accordance with the
recommendations and instructions, and the capacity and operating
limitations, specified for the Vehicle by Ford; ".

So in laymans terms, Ford brags that their vehicle will do a 1/4 mile on a strip in a certain timeframe, but buying the exact same car & doing a 1/4 mile strip with it voids a warranty....WTF !!!

Provided that YOU were the person who purchased the vehicle from the dealer, I would be screaming bloody murder if I were you.
& furthermore, if a Ford rep' was at the strip on the day you ran the vehicle, that person should be able to verify you did indeed do EXACTLY what THEY bragged it would do.

It's actions like that, from a retailer, that make my blood boil.

Now, in my personal opinion, you did everything right. You DID NOT test your vehicle on a public street, you went to a sanctioned event.
If I were that ford rep' I would immediately call for your vehicle to be brought in & stripped down to assess exactly what has happened.

[Spurious]

Furthermore, at the very least, as per a warranty assessment, Ford should AT A MINIMUM, get the car into a workshop, strip it down & figure out what happened.