Focus ST beats Toyota 86 GTS - Page 3

mike_nofx · 14-10-2012, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

So the Toyota 86 is outselling the Toyota Camry and every other Toyota model put together? Ok then..... lol

Or are you claiming the 86 is outselling the Golf Gti, Wrx, megane 250, Clio Cup, old Ford XR5, Mazda mx5, Polo gti, Fabia rs, Veloster n/a and turbo etc. combined?

Oh well. Don't let facts get in the way I guess.....

Again, the huge wait is due to extremely limited numbers... ie. very few available...

Cant speak for every dealership, but at my local, Illawarra Toyota, YES they had taken more orders for the 86 than Camry, Corolla, Aurion and whatever else they sell combined. Dont believe me? Call them.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2012, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

Mid 8's lol. It's dead even to 100 with our Polo GTi and its high 6's to 100. What would I know though, I've only driven them lol.

Your Polo must be a total slug then.

I've seen three different timed acceleration runs for the Veloster Turbo and they have all been in the 8's for 0-100. Numbers don't lie.

You might need to get the Polo checked to make sure its not running on 3 cylinders or something.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2012, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Cant speak for every dealership, but at my local, Illawarra Toyota, YES they had taken more orders for the 86 than Camry, Corolla, Aurion and whatever else they sell combined. Dont believe me? Call them.

Doesn't mean its outselling the others, one dealership doesn't make a trend. All the others you mention outsell the 86 by at least 5 or 6 to 1 except the Aurion which would be around 2 to 1, going off the official Vfacts sales numbers.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?

Admittedly no i havnt, and nothing wrong with making assumptions many on here do. That said my post was IMO looking at power, torque and weight figures it looks to be a no brainer compared to old ST and the newer one has more again.
Anyway again this thread is about the ST. That and i dont see the point in arguing with someone on the internet because i disagree.

**Dave R** · 14-10-2012, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Doesn't mean its outselling the others, one dealership doesn't make a trend. All the others you mention outsell the 86 by at least 5 or 6 to 1 except the Aurion which would be around 2 to 1, going off the official Vfacts sales numbers.

Yep, Hilux alone would have sold more units last month than the 86 has all year. The only reason there is a long waiting list is because they aren't sending many here, first batch was only 400 units.

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 10:01 PM

You guys kill me, fair dinkum. LOL.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 10:05 PM

Most reviews have the Veloster turbo high 7s and low eights which would be bout right for the hp of the car (lowest out of ST, Gti, megane etc)... Which is fine as the Veloster beats them all on price... Also leaves alot of headroom for a 200kW $45K version later on. Just because you've driven one doesn't change this...

Nic85 · 14-10-2012, 10:08 PM

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

Franco Cozzo · 14-10-2012, 10:17 PM

Have we got any detailed interior shots of the new ST? I'd like a bit of a squiz on the gadgets.

**DJM83** · 14-10-2012, 10:21 PM

Here ya go Damo, they arent to up close though. Dont really like though binnacle gauges.
But it looks like a nice place to be.

Bossxr8 · 14-10-2012, 10:29 PM

Those Recaros look sweet. Wish they fitted them to FPV's.

kevino · 14-10-2012, 10:31 PM

Looking at that pic.................I just want one!

XR Martin · 14-10-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

So you've driven the Veloster turbo?

Have you driven a Focus ST?
No
So why are you comparing its performance to a Veloster?

Fact is the Focus ST is capable of mid-low 14s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujnuXb_dLYk

WILDB · 14-10-2012, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Here ya go Damo, they arent to up close though. Dont really like though binnacle gauges.
But it looks like a nice place to be.

This will be found out in about a month....

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

So go buy one for yourself.

Fiesta_Man69 · 14-10-2012, 10:54 PM

Should be great to sit in one at Sydneys Motor Show next week.

In Focus · 14-10-2012, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

I agree, and I have driven the Veloster Turbo. I rate it pretty close in acceleration with my Fabia RS, which is supposedly a touch slower than the Polo GTI. Which bears out your own comparison.

The ST looks to be another step up again, though.

SumoDog68 · 14-10-2012, 11:37 PM

In current Top Gear UK edition mag Focus ST Is rated above Megane, Vauxhall VXR and Golf GTI . Times are pretty close -Stig preffered the Megane ,ST is better allrounder.

jpd80 · 14-10-2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's a much quicker car than high 7's, but carry on.

Motor Trend in the USA measured Veloster at 0-60 in 6.9 seconds and 15.2 for the quarter, I'd say that pretty right..
They had the Golf GTI at 0-60 in 6.1 seconds and 14.7 seconds for the quarter mile..

Nic85 · 15-10-2012, 08:37 AM

I forgot to mention my mates car has a set of rims and wider, stickier tyres too.

Good to see the guys who have driven the car and know what they're talking about agree with me haha.

Focus ST has a great poer to weight ratio, but loses it somewhere along the way. Maybe through the transmission? I'm not sure.

Fiesta_Man69 · 15-10-2012, 12:23 PM

This is EVO's review of the Veloster: its currently on their website:

(The 0-100 time is Hyundai's claim btw).

"As launched, with 138 skinny-feeling bhp from its 1.6-litre engine, the Veloster did not feel very thrilling. A turbo version was promised, and has been offered in the US for a while, but Europe now gets its own specifically-calibrated version. Meet the Hyundai Veloster Turbo.

Technical highlights?

Power drops from the US-spec 204 to 184bhp, but the same 195lb ft of torque arrives at a lower speed. Real-world driveability is the aim, helped by longer gearing in the six-speed gearbox which benefits economy and cruising refinement. Direct injection means the compression ratio can stay efficiently high at 9.5:1, and the turbocharger is a twin-scroll unit better able to make use of exhaust pulses.

Firmer dampers, bigger front brakes, 18in wheels and revised settings for the electric power steering, intended to make it feel more naturally weighted, complete the mechanical changes. Deeper valances, an extended rear spoiler, round front foglights and a central pair of exhaust pipes identify the Turbo, along with the option (£525) of matt metallic grey paint.

What's it like to drive?

A regular Veloster feels a bit flat at low revs and frantic at high revs. Not this one. The turbo engine transforms the whole car, with a keen, precise and practically lag-free pull from low revs right up to 6500rpm. It's a strong, even torque delivery, smooth and solid and a complete contrast to a standard Veloster's busy thrashings.

Ultimate acceleration isn't very special – the claim is 8.4sec to 62mph – but you can cover ground very quickly in this car thanks to its strong mid-range energy and confident overtaking ability. No sporting Hyundai (not a broad canon, it must be said) has felt as rapid and capable as this one.

The gear ratios suit it well, the shift is neat and slick, and the brakes have an unusually solid, progressive action. There's a touch of steering tug if you accelerate hard out of a tight bend, a bit of dynamic spirit too easily quelled by an intrusive traction and ESP system, but you can switch it off. The steering itself is no transparent window onto the road but the weighting is natural, as promised, and the action is properly precise."

Questions: does Aus get the Europe or US engine ECU setting?

8.4 is a long way from mid 6s. Its the difference between a warm and a hot hatch. I believe other PRINT media have similar figures...

Other Aus reviews..

From Paul Gover @ Carsguide:
"The Veloster is a nice car, with enough extra urge to make driving enjoyment but not enough to turn the car into an untamed beast. So it's not a WRX rival, or something to consider against an RS Megane."

From Paul Gover's Group Test @ Carsguide, comparing the Golf GTI to the Veloster Turbo:

"The Hyundai drives nicely enough, but when you jump into the Golf you realise the Korean maker still has some way to go. It just feels cheaper and less together.

The GTI is a Veloster done right, from the driver's seat, with a truly taut chassis, great performance and German quality on the assembly front. The difference between the Hyundai and Volkswagen is rammed home at Lakeside, where the GTI is actually quickest... the Veloster always seems to be nice but not right."

Again, I'll stress that the accleration figures are Hyundai's claim, as opposed to a dodgy gtech measuring device. I'd be prepared to go with the manufacturer's claim rather than online fanboys....

Regardless, the Veloster Turbo is great value but its not in the Megane, Focus ST, GTI class (and is priced accordingly, which is great).

Just to make everyone weep a bit, you can buy a 150kW Clio Cup over there for 17K pounds.... works out to be around $25K in our money, but we pay north of $40K...

WILDB · 15-10-2012, 07:47 PM

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ocus_st_page_4

These guys managed 0-60mph in 5.9s out of the ST.

Nic85 · 17-10-2012, 07:12 PM

German quality on the Golf, haha. That bit made me laugh. So many problems with those cars.

BadMax · 17-10-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WILDB

These guys managed 0-60mph in 5.9s out of the ST.

Not a good example trying to prove a sub six second sprint. Add the missing 2.1mph and it'd be over 6 seconds.

WILDB · 17-10-2012, 11:08 PM

I know that, hence why I said 0-60mph rather than 0-62.

Franco Cozzo · 18-10-2012, 06:23 PM

Wow I really like the yellow seat trim in that ST. Problem is my daily cars get really dirty because when I finish work for the day I'm covered in crap like dirt, oil etc.

I sit on my seat, someone else drives my car and comes out dirty haha.

On a hot day my Fiesta still smells like oil.

martinijosh · 22-10-2012, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Wow I really like the yellow seat trim in that ST. Problem is my daily cars get really dirty because when I finish work for the day I'm covered in crap like dirt, oil etc.

I sit on my seat, someone else drives my car and comes out dirty haha.

On a hot day my Fiesta still smells like oil.

Snap on seat covers for the commute home... take them off for the weekend hoon.

I'm really keen to get a test drive of one of these, hopefully the drive will help me see why its at the same price point as the fg2 turbo

**DJM83** · 22-10-2012, 09:34 AM

I'd hazard a guess it has seat airbags so no covers.

martinijosh · 22-10-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

I'd hazard a guess it has seat airbags so no covers.

You can get airbag safe covers

(Probably not the snap on oil resistant ones though)

Franco Cozzo · 22-10-2012, 10:28 PM

Where can I get the airbag safe covers from? I've been reluctant to get seat covers for that reason.