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Old 16-10-2017, 05:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Originally Posted by Pedro View Post
A rather caustic reply ...
Not wrong, someone's a cranky boy! Hit a nerve I think.
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Old 16-10-2017, 05:45 PM   #32
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Most of Telsa's profit comes not from selling cars but from selling ZEV credits to other companies:

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...n-three-months
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Old 16-10-2017, 08:45 PM   #33
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Most of Telsa's profit comes not from selling cars but from selling ZEV credits to other companies:

https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/art...n-three-months
Basically Tesla as a long term business venture is finished.

Their current business model consists of producing expensive, non-profitable cars which few people want, while other profitable car manufacturers essentially pay a tax to keep them afloat.

Meanwhile the saviour model 3, they can't produce anywhere near the volumes required to transition to profitability.

To add to their misery the other majors are rushing out with their own EV's.
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Old 17-10-2017, 02:59 PM   #34
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Didn't Musk nearly go bankrupt in 2008?
How did he turn around?
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Old 17-10-2017, 04:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

-(incrp=>"Drunk rant", t=3,m=1)
In all seriousness, We have someone who has sponsored multiple business ventures to actively facilitate the advancement of humanity and the longevity of our species and you're upset about this. This isnt a I phone, it's not a euro spec hybrid contamination of a technological advancement (read all ICE advancements over the last 10 years) to keep us dependent what makes the currently entrenched 1%ers money.

It's the driving force behind the future of sustainable transportation technology within this solar system. and your calling them out for not making it happen in less than 7 years? They are constantly pushing against the force of existing business whom are loosing footing due to this sudden switch in tech. Which the big auto co's could have started migrating to themselves 20 years ago if their prophets on ICE and the status quo was not so desirable. Now they find themselves trying to play catch up or be left for dead like the dinosaurs they suck from the ground.

The future need not be bleak, stop hating, get excited. This isn't about Musk, This is about supporting our evolution. If you don't reach for the stars, You'll never get there. This is the most exciting push for advancement since the space race and all half the population wants to do is **** on it. If you to die in a pool of your own squalor, get on with it and leave the rest of us to actually make some progress.

-(/incrp="drunk rant")

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Old 17-10-2017, 05:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Originally Posted by Crazy2287 View Post
-(incrp=>"Drunk rant", t=3,m=1)
In all seriousness, We have someone who has sponsored multiple business ventures to actively facilitate the advancement of humanity and the longevity of our species and you're upset about this. This isnt a I phone, it's not a euro spec hybrid contamination of a technological advancement (read all ICE advancements over the last 10 years) to keep us dependent what makes the currently entrenched 1%ers money.

It's the driving force behind the future of sustainable transportation technology within this solar system. and your calling them out for not making it happen in less than 7 years? They are constantly pushing against the force of existing business whom are loosing footing due to this sudden switch in tech. Which the big auto co's could have started migrating to themselves 20 years ago if their prophets on ICE and the status quo was not so desirable. Now they find themselves trying to play catch up or be left for dead like the dinosaurs they suck from the ground.

The future need not be bleak, stop hating, get excited. This isn't about Musk, This is about supporting our evolution. If you don't reach for the stars, You'll never get there. This is the most exciting push for advancement since the space race and all half the population wants to do is **** on it. If you to die in a pool of your own squalor, get on with it and leave the rest of us to actually make some progress.

-(/incrp="drunk rant")

Nice diatribe Elon..........I admire your passion for change.

Cheers Mick
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Old 17-10-2017, 07:05 PM   #37
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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A rather caustic reply ... but I think you've let your political views cloud your reasoning.

Thailand car assembly line workers are paid about $6 an hour or about $12,500 per annum, while the average annual Australian car manufacturing worker wage is about $69,000. At over 450% higher Australian labour cost, one could hardly call that a "minor fraction of a cost to build a car".

Import tariff reductions introduced way back by Labor Senator Button (and supported by both sides of politics across the past three decades), accelerated the demise of car manufacturing in Australia. As the tariffs were removed, imported cars got cheaper which make Australian-made cars less appealing. But the Free Trade Deal with Thailand, introduced in 2005 hammered the final nail in the coffin.

And as for ... " Very high labour cost countries like France, Italy, Germany, UK, USA, Japan and South Korea have well functioning auto industries." ... they also have "very high" populations to support it. But even so, they are now moving assemblies of their lower end models to Asia to lower build costs. Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz all build cars in China.
Don't forget the greenies winging that the fbt was too low and people were driving their salary sacrificed fleet cars thousands of kilometres just to meet the lower fbt rate that's what helped kill the fleet market.
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Old 17-10-2017, 10:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy2287 View Post
-(incrp=>"Drunk rant", t=3,m=1)
In all seriousness, We have someone who has sponsored multiple business ventures to actively facilitate the advancement of humanity and the longevity of our species and you're upset about this. This isnt a I phone, it's not a euro spec hybrid contamination of a technological advancement (read all ICE advancements over the last 10 years) to keep us dependent what makes the currently entrenched 1%ers money.

It's the driving force behind the future of sustainable transportation technology within this solar system. and your calling them out for not making it happen in less than 7 years? They are constantly pushing against the force of existing business whom are loosing footing due to this sudden switch in tech. Which the big auto co's could have started migrating to themselves 20 years ago if their prophets on ICE and the status quo was not so desirable. Now they find themselves trying to play catch up or be left for dead like the dinosaurs they suck from the ground.

The future need not be bleak, stop hating, get excited. This isn't about Musk, This is about supporting our evolution. If you don't reach for the stars, You'll never get there. This is the most exciting push for advancement since the space race and all half the population wants to do is **** on it. If you to die in a pool of your own squalor, get on with it and leave the rest of us to actually make some progress.

-(/incrp="drunk rant")
.

Every company goes into business for one reason - to make money. What product they choose is up to them. However they cannot change the fundamental law of business - make money = good, lose money = bad. Lose too much money and your business fails no matter how good the product
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Old 17-10-2017, 11:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

People have been predicting the demise of tesla pretty much since day one.

They're still building cars.
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Old 18-10-2017, 12:08 AM   #40
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Musk would never agree to that, he's out to show established car makers that his start up is the future.
Tesla hire people from the automotive game all the time.

But they also work employees hard or your out.

I'd say people getting sacked cause they're not hitting targets.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:59 PM   #41
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

http://www.smh.com.au/business/innov...02-gzdzvn.html

Interesting situation the Board has got to resolve, without Musk there may not be a Tesla, but with him there won’t be a Tesla. Maybe gaffer tape to shut him up might be the solution.

'Time is ticking': Musk in 'eighth hell' as Model 3 problems burn other projects

There will be no new model Teslas in 2017.

The electric carmaker updated its website for customer reservations on Wednesday, including a table that shows the base $US35,000 ($44,000) Model 3 won't be available until some time next year.

CEO Elon Musk says the Model 3 was "deep production hell," as the company spends more to speed up production of it's first mass market car.
That follows a painful earnings call for Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk, who described the company as being in the "eighth level of hell" (there are nine, in case you're counting).

The stock price fell 8.9 per cent on Thursday, the most in more than 16 months.

The electric-car maker won't build 5,000 units per week of its Model 3 sedan until sometime in March, three months later than planned.

"I have to tell you I was really depressed about three or four weeks ago," Musk said on the call after Tesla reported a record quarterly loss and cash burn.

He downplayed the long-term implications of the delays. "In the grand scheme of things," Musk said, "this is a relatively small shift."

But the setbacks lengthen the wait for hundreds of thousands of customers waiting for their Model 3 and extend the payoff period for the billions of dollars the company has spent to expand. The manufacturing snags will embolden skeptics who've doubted the company's ability to quickly reach mass production, a feat the youngest US carmaker is trying to pull off for the first time with a car that starts at $US35,000.

"We left the call frustrated with the lack of transparency from Tesla management," Jeffrey Osborne, a Cowen & Co. analyst who recommends selling the shares, wrote in a note to clients.

"Elon Musk needs to stop over promising and under delivering and the board should rein in a CEO who publicly shares his aspirational goals that have rarely been hit."

Tesla burned $US1.42 billion in cash in the third quarter. The carmaker is spending heavily on both its auto assembly plant and at its battery gigafactory, contributing to an adjusted lost per share of $US2.92 per share, worse than analysts estimated.

Bottlenecks

People from key teams at Tesla are now focussed on fixing bottlenecks that have hobbled production, said Musk, who held his earnings call at the Nevada battery factory where he and co-founder J.B. Straubel are spending their days and nights, even camping on the roof .

Btw, just want to express a word of appreciation for the hard work of the Tesla Gigafactory team. Reason I camped on the roof was because it was less time than driving to a hotel room in Reno. Production hell, ~8th circle …

Despite earlier reports that it was the company's California assembly plant that was gumming up the works, it turns out the famed Gigafactory is the heart of the problem - which is bad news for other Tesla products.

The main constraint holding back Model 3 output has been on the assembly line that packages battery cells at the gigafactory, which Musk blamed in part on a subcontractor that "really dropped the ball." Software had to be rewritten from scratch and mechanical and electrical elements of one area of the plant had to be redone.

Speaking from the plant, he also faulted himself for picking the wrong subcontractor. He recalled being on the assembly line at 2 am on a Sunday to help diagnose robot calibration issues and said work was being done seven days a week to solve the problems vexing the gigafactory. "One should lead from the front lines and that's why I'm here," he said.

The reallocation of resources to fix the facility's difficulties appears to be slowing down Autopilot, the Solar Roof, the Tesla Semi, and the Tesla Network.

"Tesla's cash burn is astounding, and time is ticking," said Salim Morsy, an electric-car analyst at Bloomberg New Energy Finance. "They have some pretty urgent things to deal with, and we just don't have any visibility right now."

Here are five key products still waiting to catch an elevator out of the inferno:

1.The Model 3

The "$US35,000 electric car" has been Tesla's top goal and marketing calling card for years. It's an important price point, competing with entry level luxury petrol-powered cars like the BMW 3 Series and the Mercedes C Class.

When you include a $US7,500 US tax credit, the price is cheaper than the average new US car and more in line with a well-optioned Toyota Camry.

But on Wednesday's call with analysts, Tesla pushed back its timelines for the Model 3 by three months. And perhaps the biggest warning flag: Musk would no longer give a timeline on when Tesla would reach a production rate of 10,000 a week.

Last quarter he was unequivocal on that point: "What people should absolutely have zero concern about - and I mean zero - is that Tesla will achieve a 10,000 unit production week by the end of next year."

2. The solar roof

A year ago this week, Tesla unveiled its remarkable solar shingles with much fanfare in Hollywood on an old set of "Desperate Housewives." It began taking deposits in May.

There's still little indication of when the product might roll out. Tesla said things will move slowly in the coming quarter while it gets its new factory in Buffalo, New York, up and running.

Then, the company said, the product will ramp up "in 2018." That's a wide window for customers trying to plan a roofing project.

Perhaps a better indication of where things stand is this: Tesla's website currently shows job postings for 24 "lead roofer" positions - all in California. Each position, according to the descriptions, would be second-in-command of a small roofing team.

Meanwhile, the amount of standard solar installations being done have dropped 42 per cent compared with the same quarter last year, just before Tesla bought SolarCity.

3. Autopilot

A year after Tesla started charging $US8,000 for a feature called Full Self Driving, there's still no sign of a rollout of such features, and Musk hinted that a more powerful supercomputer may be needed to achieve its goal.

On Wednesday, he said the current hardware can reach "approximately human-level autonomy."

Musk concedes that the system will probably need to be significantly safer than the average human driver in order to achieve regulatory approval, so a hardware upgrade may be necessary.

"We'll have more to say on the hardware front soon, we're just not ready to say anything now," said Musk. As a consolation, anyone who has already paid for the option will get a free computer swap.

Tesla said new features will be coming for its less-ambitious $US5,000 Enhanced Autopilot package in the next few months. Musk said the other hardware for autonomous driving-8 cameras, a radar and 12 ultrasonic sensors-will be sufficient.

Other companies pursuing autonomous driving are also including expensive lidar kits. Musk was undeterred: "We are certain that our hardware strategy is better than any other option, by a lot."

4. Tesla semi

Tesla was set to unveil its first all-electric long-range semi truck back in September. Then it was moved to October.

Then it was pushed until November 16, explicitly so that resources could be diverted to deal with Model 3 problems.

Tesla Semi unveil now Nov 16. Diverting resources to fix Model 3 bottlenecks & increase battery production for Puerto Rico & other affected areas.

Tesla reiterated the same unveiling date by press release on Wednesday. However, it's notable that such an integral and supposedly imminent product for Tesla didn't even come up on the analyst

5. The Tesla network

With all of the bigger delays drawing the attention, the Tesla fleet network didn't even get a mention this week.
The Tesla fleet network is supposed to be unveiled next year. Photo: supplied

Tesla is working on a system that will allow owners to rent out their cars using what they've dubbed the Tesla Network. Once fully autonomous driving is achieved, the idea is that fleets of privately owned Teslas will function like a driverless Uber or Lyft, picking up and delivering passengers for a fee that will be split between Tesla and the individual car owners.

In the shorter-term, the Tesla Network could function more like Zipcar. An owner could switch a setting online and open their car for someone to rent. The Model 3 uses key cards and Tesla's smartphone app instead of a key, so in theory anyone could be granted access through an automated system.

The Tesla Network, which accounts for billions of dollars in long-term revenue in many analyst models, is supposed to be unveiled this year. With all of the bigger delays drawing the attention, it didn't even get a mention on Wednesday
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:44 PM   #42
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Massive 3rd quarter loss. When will wallstreet investors wake up to this snakeoil salesman.

Obviously trying to do too much, too soon. This won't end well.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Massive 3rd quarter loss. When will wallstreet investors wake up to this snakeoil salesman.

Obviously trying to do too much, too soon. This won't end well.
I think wall st woke up long ago.
Sometimes the banks get in so deep with these companies that they can't afford to let them (musk, personally) fail. That doesn't mean Tesla companies won't fail though.

Trump mk2.

It's the mums and dads who pre-ordered a dream that I worry about. There's something like 500,000 of them waiting.
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #44
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

http://www.ibtimes.com/tesla-model-3...y-loss-2609998

Tesla Model 3 Could Be Delayed: Company Posts $671 Million Quarterly Loss


Meanwhile, at Nissan:

http://www.focusdailynews.com/2017/1...ctric-vehicle/

Nissan Leaf Is Top Selling Electric Vehicle
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:15 PM   #45
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Slightly off topic, what is the status of South Australia’s worlds biggest lithium battery? Is it operational? As I recall 100 days or its free, is there an official start date?
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:47 PM   #46
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Slightly off topic, what is the status of South Australia’s worlds biggest lithium battery? Is it operational? As I recall 100 days or its free, is there an official start date?
It wouldn't be from the twitter post. A contract needs to be signed and I would say it's 100days from start of construction.
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Old 04-11-2017, 03:02 PM   #47
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For the shareholders...

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Old 04-11-2017, 04:08 PM   #48
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Slightly off topic, what is the status of South Australia’s worlds biggest lithium battery? Is it operational? As I recall 100 days or its free, is there an official start date?
It's 80% complete and on schedule for 1st December:
http://reneweconomy.com.au/musk-says...omplete-20896/
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Old 17-11-2017, 09:41 AM   #49
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Recent news feed has Fisker announce solid state batteries, circa 2023 delivery, 500 miles range, 1 minute charge... wow.

Dyson, Toyota, similar tech by 2022.

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/13/...ate-batteries/

Gotta admire Henrik Fisker - if at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
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Old 17-11-2017, 10:03 PM   #50
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I'm genuinely interested to hear the method for transferring that much energy in 1 minute.
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Old 17-11-2017, 10:38 PM   #51
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Couple of new products from Tesla.

Tesla Semi and updated Roadster. Semi is one promising piece of kit and the Roadster looks very nice with outstanding claimed performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9xafjynJA

The audio from the event isn't very good, however Musk stutters, speaks like he is way over worked/stressed and very jittery with his delivery, these are not good signs from any CEO.
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Old 18-11-2017, 01:34 PM   #52
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Couple of new products from Tesla.

Tesla Semi and updated Roadster. Semi is one promising piece of kit and the Roadster looks very nice with outstanding claimed performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9xafjynJA

The audio from the event isn't very good, however Musk stutters, speaks like he is way over worked/stressed and very jittery with his delivery, these are not good signs from any CEO.
That's just what he's like with public speaking. But no doubt also true on the over worked/stressed part!
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Old 18-11-2017, 02:26 PM   #53
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I'm genuinely interested to hear the method for transferring that much energy in 1 minute.
Dr. Goodenough (really) is working on a similar energy transfer capability using a new battery technology that has 3 times the power density of a modern Lithium Ion battery. He doesn't claim a minute recharge time but he does claim minutes.

Plus it won't catch on fire or blow up.

He is one half of the team who invented the Lithium Ion battery, so he knows exactly what his hurdles are.

It can use lithium, but it actually has better performance with sodium, of all things. We have plenty of sodium on planet earth.

Here is a high level write up on the technology and the folks he is working with at the University of Texas.

https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/g...ery-technology

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Old 18-11-2017, 09:41 PM   #54
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Plus it won't catch on fire or blow up.
Well that is good. Because i'd expect something in the electrical circuit to fail in spectacular fashion (read: components vaporizing themselves) if you tried to jam 100kw into a battery in 1 minute at 415v and (assuming 100% efficiency) a bit over 2000A,
For interests sake the cables themselves would need to be many factors under 0.2ohms resistance or they would just turn into massive heaters and the energy would never reach the battery. So this battery tech, sounds amazing, but it's going to need some incredible advances in supporting infrastructure to allow those charge times.

Something like a battery of the same technology, that is an order of magnitude greater in capacity than the one in the vehicle, stored very close to the vehicle, (in the ground underneath?) with cryogenic conductors that connects in parallel to the battery in the vehicle. balances the charge, and the remaining 10% of capacity is either unused, or charged slowly off a separate circuit.

Does not sound feasible, but i'm no expert. I am looking forward to these sorts of crazy advances in tech, It's very exciting!
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Old 19-11-2017, 02:27 PM   #55
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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Well that is good. Because i'd expect something in the electrical circuit to fail in spectacular fashion (read: components vaporizing themselves) if you tried to jam 100kw into a battery in 1 minute at 415v and (assuming 100% efficiency) a bit over 2000A,
For interests sake the cables themselves would need to be many factors under 0.2ohms resistance or they would just turn into massive heaters and the energy would never reach the battery. So this battery tech, sounds amazing, but it's going to need some incredible advances in supporting infrastructure to allow those charge times.

Something like a battery of the same technology, that is an order of magnitude greater in capacity than the one in the vehicle, stored very close to the vehicle, (in the ground underneath?) with cryogenic conductors that connects in parallel to the battery in the vehicle. balances the charge, and the remaining 10% of capacity is either unused, or charged slowly off a separate circuit.

Does not sound feasible, but i'm no expert. I am looking forward to these sorts of crazy advances in tech, It's very exciting!
I tend to feel a bit the same way, it may be one thing getting this stuff up and running in a science lab. The hard bit is making it into something usable in the real world.
We can make superconductors work in a lab, been able to do it for decades.

Then having something with so much power and sticking it into the hands of average Joe. It better be 200% safe....
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Old 19-11-2017, 10:35 PM   #56
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

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I tend to feel a bit the same way, it may be one thing getting this stuff up and running in a science lab. The hard bit is making it into something usable in the real world.
We can make superconductors work in a lab, been able to do it for decades.

Then having something with so much power and sticking it into the hands of average Joe. It better be 200% safe....
Electricity is a cruel, relentless and merciless thing, cramming that much power is asking for trouble.
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Old 20-11-2017, 11:56 AM   #57
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

For me, the real news is in the claimed performance figures for the Roadster...if true, that is simply mind-blowing (and dare I say it - game changing).

0-60mph in 1.9 seconds!

0-100mph in 4.2 seconds!

8.8 seconds down the quarter mile!

400km/h top speed!

Crazy performance figures, but what would be the big game changer (if true) is that it will be capable of a range of 1000km (though doubt you would get that range if sitting on 400km/h - Adelaide to Melbourne in around 2 hours lol).

Car capable of 8 second passes off-the-shelf...with the range of a long hauler.

What are we thinking - way? Or no ****ing way?

Surely these claims must be based on results from prototype testing?
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Old 20-11-2017, 08:19 PM   #58
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Definitely prototype testing or performance goals they beleave are theoretically attainable. Thats an average accelleration force of 1.5g
It will take some very serious tyres, rims, hubs and drive axels to withstand the torque applied to the wheels. Anything less will result in plumes of tyre smoke or simply snapping the centre out of the rim/shearing the studs off. Remembering a 200kwh battery will be, maby not double but substantially heavier than the 100kwh.

I'm thinking "way", Tesla has backed up every pther claim they have made in the past, but im expecting it will be more than 200k for the "fast" variant with the associated hardware required to enable it to safely accelerate that fast.

Now we just gotta wait 2-3 years to see it.
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Old 05-01-2018, 12:59 PM   #59
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

More consistent news from Tesla!

Full Model X production now pushed out to June 2018
Burning through 1 Billion Dollars per month
To counter the negativity Tesla plans on producing a new Ute

There is an upside to this, with uncertainty there is always an opportunity to make money.

Wall Street traders have been increasing their short selling of Tesla’s 167 million shares outstanding in hopes for the stock to continue to crash. With the “short interest” at 32.3 million shares, or about 20 percent sold short, Tesla is now in the top ten shorted stocks. Bitcoin you have a competitor!
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Old 05-01-2018, 02:50 PM   #60
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Default Re: Are the cracks starting to appear in the Tesla empire?

Space X merger with Tesla perhaps -

https://money.usnews.com/investing/s...a-stock-spacex

SpaceX Is Just the Thing to Help Tesla Stock
Morgan Stanley says a Tesla-SpaceX merger makes sense.
By Wayne Duggan, Contributor
Dec. 6, 2017, at 7:52 a.m.

At first glance, it may seem as if building an affordable, long-range electric automobile and putting a man on Mars have very little to do with one another. However, Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas says that electric vehicle and battery storage company Tesla Inc (Nasdaq: TSLA) and commercial spaceflight company SpaceX may end up sharing more than a common CEO.

According to Jonas, there are a number of reasons why a potential Tesla-SpaceX merger – both companies are led by Elon Musk – may make sense. The primary reason for a marriage between the two may simply be out of necessity if Tesla continues to struggle with its finances. Jonas says the competition will only get tougher for Tesla in coming years.

"We have argued for some time that Tesla's addressable market of sustainable transport will attract fierce competition from some of the world's best capitalized tech firms with arguably superior access to capital, talent and business models that can monetize vehicle data and content opportunities, threatening the long-term independence of Tesla as a standalone entity," he says.

In addition, Jonas says Musk will likely devote more of his time to SpaceX in the future given that it seems to be his most passionate project. Jonas says Tesla may have more "key man risk" than any other company Morgan Stanley covers. In other words, if Musk steps down as Tesla CEO to focus on SpaceX, it could be disastrous for Tesla and its investors.

In November, Kynikos Associates founder and Tesla short seller Jim Chanos said he expects Musk to resign Tesla's CEO by 2020.

"Obviously this is not being valued as a car company, it's being valued on Musk ... he's the reason people own the stock," Chanos said.

Jonas says SpaceX's financial situation may be better than Tesla's, and SpaceX has a much wider long-term competitive moat than Tesla does.

Jonas also sees the potential for overlapping technologies in material science, manufacturing and artificial intelligence. Finally, Musk and his companies have a history of joining forces in times of financial need. When SolarCity was struggling as an independent company, Tesla snatched it up and assumed its massive debt burden.

For now, Jonas says investors should be cautions when it comes to Tesla given all the unknowns. Morgan Stanley has an "equal-weight" rating for Tesla and a $370 price target for the stock.

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cheers, Maka
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