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Old 07-06-2019, 11:09 AM   #1141
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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My scenario doesn't mean doubling the fleet at all.
HWP currently don't use all their cars at once so swapping mid shift is easy plus is often done now anyway.
I think you’l find all Highway Patrol vehicles operate at very high utilisation rates, much higher than normal suburban police vehicles. After all there are high road safety concerns and expectations (aka revenue opportunities) from these vehicles.

Is it really plausible to have an EV in the highway patrol role?

A 500 km Range is under ideal conditions, factor in the high speed attitude of the cops and wanting to plant the foot where ever they can, the range is going to be much less.

EV’s do not like being driven for sustained periods at high speed. High speed requires significantly more power from the batteries and the batteries start to overheat, to protect the batteries the battery management system will step in and reduce power - hardly an ideal situation if you’re trying to catch some lunatic doing +200 km/hr. Also high speed further exacerbates the range issue of the vehicle.

And then there is the issue of hours and hours of waiting to replenish the battery’s.

Bit like trying to drive Tesla from Brisbane to Sydney, factor in 1-2 days due to the need to spend hours recharging the vehicle which adds to driver boredom/fatigue. Meanwhile a Toyota echo can do the trip in well under 12 hours.
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:11 AM   #1142
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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It is getting old fellas.

Any more taking pot shots at each other will be dealt with accordingly.
Indeed the name calling is not needed calling people a Bot these days is considered offensive
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Old 07-06-2019, 11:33 AM   #1143
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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Indeed the name calling is not needed calling people a Bot these days is considered offensive
I really couldnít care less what names I get called. I got called worse and treated worse in primary school. And I accept your point.
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Old 07-06-2019, 12:14 PM   #1144
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Yep, a Ponzi scheme, worse a Ponzi which isnít just funded by the investors but by unsuspecting motorists from all over the world who contribute to Tesla because other manufacturers are forced into paying an offset level (the Tesla tax) aka extortion. The utopian socialist vehicle. But like all socialist enterprises it only works whilst there is other peopleís money to extort. As you unpack and begin to understand how Tesla operates the less there is to admire.
Is GM a ponzi scheme since it declared bankruptcy and got taxpayers money ?

Germany, South Korea, China and America all provide subsidies, tariffs, loans
to their car industries along with many other industries farming and mining etc.

Didn't Australian government give money to Ford and Toyota who took the money and left.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:53 PM   #1145
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Is GM a ponzi
Whataboutism. Off topic. Start a new thread if you want to discuss GM.
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Old 07-06-2019, 01:59 PM   #1146
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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Is GM a ponzi scheme since it declared bankruptcy and got taxpayers money ?

Germany, South Korea, China and America all provide subsidies, tariffs, loans
to their car industries along with many other industries farming and mining etc.

Didn't Australian government give money to Ford and Toyota who took the money and left.
Bingo - Tesla is a Ponzi

Nice attempted deflection
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Old 07-06-2019, 06:29 PM   #1147
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Whataboutism. Off topic. Start a new thread if you want to discuss GM.
Its called an analogy, commonly used when talking about topics.

Don know why it triggered you.
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Old 07-06-2019, 07:33 PM   #1148
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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Whataboutism. Off topic. Start a new thread if you want to discuss GM.
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Bingo - Tesla is a Ponzi

Nice attempted deflection
This thread is about Tesla. If you guys want to talk about Ponzi schemes, start a new thread.

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Old 07-06-2019, 08:23 PM   #1149
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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This thread is about Tesla. If you guys want to talk about Ponzi schemes, start a new thread.

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They are, Tesla is a Ponzi scheme.
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:25 PM   #1150
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They are, Tesla is a Ponzi scheme.
Think you missed the reference...

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Old 11-06-2019, 12:22 PM   #1151
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After the guys in Wall Street made their money, stock bounces back to $212 as it's going to be a good second quarter. I expect $250 within a few weeks.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:08 PM   #1152
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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After the guys in Wall Street made their money, stock bounces back to $212 as it's going to be a good second quarter. I expect $250 within a few weeks.
Fantastic, lets have a party
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:21 PM   #1153
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

Kmav - the wolf of wallstreet
lets crack out the quaaludes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1huYsSOYlVo
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Old 15-06-2019, 12:13 AM   #1154
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https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2...f-destruction/

sort of relevant. It is an amusing ride watching the numerous giants of tech go higher while profits elude them. No different to the late 90's tech boom, I've had older traders tell me they were saying "enough already, crash it!" as it just went higher.

The bit that doesn't sit well is

" Its costs are simply much higher than the market is willing to pay, as its nine years of massive losses indicate. Uber not only lacks powerful competitive advantages, but it is actually less efficient than the competitors it has been driving out of business."

ie everyone else gets forced out of business while the disruptor just wears loss after loss. Roll on autonomous cars I guess
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Old 15-06-2019, 12:28 AM   #1155
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I recall someone inferring that the stock price was so low that there was going to be a buy out, but now the stock price rises because theyíre doing well selling unprofitable cars and making their Ďprofitsí from the Tesla Tax or maybe tonightís full moon will be the deciding factor. Smoke and mirrors.
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Old 16-06-2019, 12:29 PM   #1156
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Interesting article from a big Tesla critic Robert Anthony Lutz former leader of all Big Three, VP of Ford, President Chrysler, Vice chairman GM.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...lity-bob-lutz/

Bob Lutz Talks Panel Gaps, Tesla, and Why Every Detail Matters
Getting it right starts at the top.


BY BOB LUTZ
JUN 14, 2019

Tesla Model 3s are a rare sight in Michigan, since our laws don't permit factory-owned dealers. But the strongly motivated Tesla fan can procure the car in neighboring states. When I spied a metallic-red Model 3 in an Ann Arbor parking lot, I felt compelled to check it out. I was eager to see the oft-reported sloppy assembly work, the poor-fitting doors, blotchy paint, and other manifestations of Tesla CEO Elon Musk's "production hell" with my own eyes.

But, when next to the car, I was stunned. Not only was the paint without any discernible flaw, but the various panels formed a body of precision that was beyond reproach. Gaps from hood to fenders, doors to frame, and all the others appeared to be perfectly even, equal side-to-side, and completely parallel. Gaps of 3.5 to 4.5mm are considered word-class. This Model 3 measured up.

So, while I continue to be critical of Tesla's business model and Musk's strategy, it was impossible to find fault with the visual quality of that Model 3. It looked like a fiberglass model as seen in design, before the production go-ahead. In those models, the panels are not assembled: it's all one surface, and the separations are simulated by a routed groove.

How important gaps and flushness in the real world? The body and its apertures are all just as functional with uneven gaps on either side of the hood or deck. In fact, the Detroit Three, until about 15 years ago, routinely delivered cars and trucks with appalling gaps, often as wide as 8mm on one side, 2mm on the other. As long as there was no chipped paint from the door hitting its frame, it was fine.

I once described one American employer's cars as "looking like a squadron of related panels going down the road in loose formation." But again, does it really matter? Customers may not visit showrooms with gap gauges, but they do unconsciously register the harmony and "one-ness" of a car with gaps so narrow that it looks like a seamless shape. It's a visual manifestation of precision, care, and thus, quality.

Volkswagen, in the eighties, was the first Western producer to out-do the Japanese in assembly precision. I asked then-CEO Ferdinand PiŽch how they did it: "I got all the production execs in a room and told them they had six weeks to achieve consistent 4mm gaps or they'd all be fired. It was easy!" I humbly suggested this, er, "leadership style" would not be appropriate in the US, and thus, never tried it.

But upon my return to GM In 2001, I found that shaming worked just as well. I had assembled most of the GM products at the proving ground and flanked them with role models from Germany (surprisingly not the best), Japan (better, but second) and Korea (the world's best.) I lead the cluster of proud GM execs from car to car until the enormous, Harley-jacketed Joe Spielman—then president of assembly—literally grabbed me by the collar and said "Enough of this crap! Just show me what you want, and I'll get it for you, guaranteed!" The initial story was that it would take time, and millions for new assembly equipment, which I was ready to approve.

Strangely, within a few months, all GM vehicles were within striking distance of the world's best (and still are today.) And I never saw the request for capital. Years later, I asked Spielman how that had happened. "Well," he explained, "when we discussed it with the lower-level operating supervisors and the skilled-trade hourly folks, they told us they could do it... it's just nobody has ever asked for it before, so they didn't think it mattered."

Don't get me wrong: it does require precise design and engineering, as well as modern, capable equipment. But excellent fit and finish also requires leadership focus and will, something that Tesla clearly has.

Bob Lutz has been The Man at several car companies. He visits showrooms with a gap gauge.
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Old 16-06-2019, 10:36 PM   #1157
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Yep a truly great car, just donít dent it ... these guys raved about the car until the cost of ownership and other issues started...

https://youtu.be/QlJ7lPdazyw
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Old 16-06-2019, 10:44 PM   #1158
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Yep a truly great car, just donít dent it ... these guys raved about the car until the cost of ownership and other issues started...

https://youtu.be/QlJ7lPdazyw

Anymore expensive then BMW, Mercs, Audis in its price class ?

Running and service would be much cheaper.
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Old 16-06-2019, 11:40 PM   #1159
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https://europe.autonews.com/automake...s-ev-reckoning
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Old 17-06-2019, 07:58 AM   #1160
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Anymore expensive then BMW, Mercs, Audis in its price class ?

Running and service would be much cheaper.
A minor dent/scratch to what should be an easily accessible and replaceable part turns into a nightmare. Costing near enough 25% of the cars purchase price. Are you kidding?

Further more you continue to delude yourself into thinking the poor mans Tesla is some automotive status symbol akin to several other Germanic vehicles - it isnít - the world has moved on from that mindset.

Running costs are cheaper because the poor mama Tesla isnít actually running whilst it is spending an inordinately long period off the road.
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Old 17-06-2019, 08:24 AM   #1161
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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A minor dent/scratch to what should be an easily accessible and replaceable part turns into a nightmare. Costing near enough 25% of the cars purchase price. Are you kidding?

Further more you continue to delude yourself into thinking the poor mans Tesla is some automotive status symbol akin to several other Germanic vehicles - it isnít - the world has moved on from that mindset.

Running costs are cheaper because the poor mama Tesla isnít actually running whilst it is spending an inordinately long period off the road.
Am I the only one that is starting to get a bit over your constant negative views of anything that is posted in here that actually relates to the topic? Unlike your 'foe', nothing you provide ads any value to the conversation. If it did, I wouldn't be posting this.

We get you don't like Teslas. We get you don't like the business model. We get that you don't like the person who manages the business and the way he goes about doing it. It's very easy to find something in any large business that's not right. For example, how the hell does the cost of repair refute anything kmav posted regarding panel gaps (which is something that is criticised quite regularly). It was irrelevant to the topic.

I think its time you took a chill pill and moved on to other threads where you actually add value.
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Old 17-06-2019, 11:25 AM   #1162
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Default Re: That Tesla thread...

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A minor dent/scratch to what should be an easily accessible and replaceable part turns into a nightmare. Costing near enough 25% of the cars purchase price. Are you kidding?

Further more you continue to delude yourself into thinking the poor mans Tesla is some automotive status symbol akin to several other Germanic vehicles - it isnít - the world has moved on from that mindset.

Running costs are cheaper because the poor mama Tesla isnít actually running whilst it is spending an inordinately long period off the road.
Since when do you take a panel shops parts and labour quotes as gospel? Are you not aware how they operate and quote insurance claims? Added to the fact that they added costs in for the glass roof they broke them self while trying to remove it?
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