Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 20-03-2018, 08:40 AM   #1
EBSXR6
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,270
Default Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2018/03/u...tonomous-mode/
EBSXR6 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 12:26 PM   #2
Pedro
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Pedro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hervey Bay
Posts: 4,205
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Autonomous vehicles are pioneering stuff at this stage. Take that poor guy in the Tesla that got confused by a reflection and ran him under a truck with fatal consequences.
They may be perfected in time but there's no way I would get in one at this point in time.
Pedro is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 12:42 PM   #3
b0son
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,978
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

My biggest concern is the ethics they build into them... will it sacrifice me for the greater good (eg. drives me into a tree so as not to hit a number of people unlawfully on the road).
b0son is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 01:23 PM   #4
DJR-351
I am Groot
Donating Member3
 
DJR-351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,842
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Interesting that there was a vehicle operator behind the wheel and was unable to intervene to prevent the accident....
__________________
..
McLaren F1
Dick Johnson Racing

"Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe
DJR-351 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
6 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 01:38 PM   #5
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,332
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0son View Post
My biggest concern is the ethics they build into them... will it sacrifice me for the greater good (eg. drives me into a tree so as not to hit a number of people unlawfully on the road).
How would an automous car know how many people are in your car? Why would it kill 5 vehicle occupants to save 2 idiots on the road.

We are told autonomous cars never get tired, distracted, drink alcohol or do anything wrong. But sometimes they just don't see things at all
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 01:59 PM   #6
Iggle Piggle
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

I thought one of the major German's (Merc or Bimmer) were working on an ethic setting for their autonomous cars - something like a knob with settings from one to five, where 1 is "sacrifice me to save everyone else", while 5 is "kill them all if it will save me".

That not a thing?

Need an annoyance knob too - just quietly go about your business, or have the autonomous car do key-bangers when passing cyclists.
Iggle Piggle is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 02:22 PM   #7
mike_nofx
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mike_nofx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,128
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

First fully autonomous car death.

Meanwhile, in the US, 102 people die every single day due to motor vehicle accidents.

I wonder if the pedestrian is at all to blame, ie, Jay walking, not looking both ways, etc. I mean, it’s not ALWAYS the car or drivers fault if a pedestrian is hit even in a regular car.
mike_nofx is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 02:52 PM   #8
Junkyard-Dog
*barks incessantly
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SA
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

I would be interested to see dash cam footage of this incident. Something tells me there are two sides to this story.
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 04:08 PM   #9
ford71V8
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
ford71V8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,719
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben73 View Post
How would an automous car know how many people are in your car? Why would it kill 5 vehicle occupants to save 2 idiots on the road.

We are told autonomous cars never get tired, distracted, drink alcohol or do anything wrong. But sometimes they just don't see things at all

I'd like to think that if its out and about driving amongst all of us, it can tell how many of its seats are occupied
ford71V8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 04:36 PM   #10
GTLEGEND
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,471
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Every advice post I visit where OP are seeking advice for their new vehicle, he is there and adds valuable support and advice for rectifying the problem. Really is a Legend. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The quality of information he provides is in depth and highly valued by those posting questions. 
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben73 View Post
How would an automous car know how many people are in your car? Why would it kill 5 vehicle occupants to save 2 idiots on the road.

We are told autonomous cars never get tired, distracted, drink alcohol or do anything wrong. But sometimes they just don't see things at all
Most new cars have seat pad sensors that can tell if there is an occupant in that seat, also with the seat belt buckle sensor as an alternative or in conjunction with the pad sensor.
GTLEGEND is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 05:44 PM   #11
dunga
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 509
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJR-351 View Post
Interesting that there was a vehicle operator behind the wheel and was unable to intervene to prevent the accident....
The vehicle operator was probably texting on their phone
dunga is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 06:16 PM   #12
Jack91
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Jack91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ballarat
Posts: 2,110
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

The longer this gets drawn out, the better.
They will never get it perfect, it will never work, its a god damn machine.
Who takes responsibility of this? The programmer? The "driver"? Or do they lock the car up?

Of all the things that science and technology could be doing right now, autonomous cars are hands down, the dumbest thing we can be working on.
Jack91 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
6 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #13
danzvtil
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
danzvtil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,582
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

I heard a self driving car expert on the radio today make a great point, it was that we seem to have this idea that a computer driving a car should do no wrong. The problem is you can’t program around physics, a driverless car is doing 90 on a highway and a pedestrian steps in front and gets killed, it’s not the cars fault. His point is we don’t know the circumstances around this crash, so shouldn’t demand the technology be banned.
How many pedestrians are killed worldwide every day on roads, we don’t ban all cars pending and investigation of how it happened. Danger and risk is all part of the world we live in.
__________________
____________________

2019 LDV G10
2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE
2011 Honda Jazz
____________________
danzvtil is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 07:22 PM   #14
b0son
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,978
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben73 View Post
How would an automous car know how many people are in your car? Why would it kill 5 vehicle occupants to save 2 idiots on the road.
Seat sensors, same way it knows who's in what seat now to only fire airbags it needs to.

There is currently a debate about the level of self-preservation the software should display... https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle37803470/
b0son is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 07:32 PM   #15
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Not sticking up for autonomous cars , certainly no expert either but this won't stop them I reckon . When the Comet jet airliner hit the scene many decades ago it was the 'new thing' revolutionizing air travel massively from prop to jet travel.

Before long the Comet suffered mishaps and eventual catastophic crash and it turned out after a lot of investigation to be from metal fatigue primarily because of the shape of the passenger windows causing stress on the skin of the fuselage .. They fixed it and this led to more and more developments and improvements .

I'm guessing as tragic as this is , the same will happen with these vehicles over the years . Pretty much all technology strikes problems .
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 07:39 PM   #16
mike_nofx
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mike_nofx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,128
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack91 View Post
The longer this gets drawn out, the better.
They will never get it perfect, it will never work, its a god damn machine.
Who takes responsibility of this? The programmer? The "driver"? Or do they lock the car up?

Of all the things that science and technology could be doing right now, autonomous cars are hands down, the dumbest thing we can be working on.

Will never be perfect because nothing ever can be. But it’s a system in its infancy and I will 100% guarantee that they will eventually drive much much safer and with a fraction of the accidents of human drivers - if they don’t already drive safer than humans. Accidents WILL happen with autonomous vehicles, but accidents will always happen with human drivers, likely in much greater numbers.
mike_nofx is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 07:52 PM   #17
Jastel
Donating Member
Donating Member1
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,430
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has much experience with taxis and always jumps on here to explain things simply and help out the new guys in B-series and Contemporary... 
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Govt should wake up and write the laws on fault, ethics and insurance BEFORE these things are on the road...but what hope hope is there when uber is pulling the strings...

It is not like it is a surprise to anyone that these companies ignore rules.
(I know they are legal in Arizona...I was referring to Australia)
Jastel is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 08:16 PM   #18
Blue Roo
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 573
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack91 View Post
The longer this gets drawn out, the better.
They will never get it perfect, it will never work, its a god damn machine.
Who takes responsibility of this? The programmer? The "driver"? Or do they lock the car up?

Of all the things that science and technology could be doing right now, autonomous cars are hands down, the dumbest thing we can be working on.
It would be interesting to be in an autonomous car. Going home from the Pub or a party. When pulled over for a RBT and your over the legal limit. Who would get charged with drink driving. If, the car was in autonomous mode and you were in the drivers seat.
Blue Roo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 20-03-2018, 08:47 PM   #19
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,731
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jastel View Post
Govt should wake up and write the laws on fault, ethics and insurance BEFORE these things are on the road...but what hope hope is there when uber is pulling the strings...

It is not like it is a surprise to anyone that these companies ignore rules.
(I know they are legal in Arizona...I was referring to Australia)
Always behind.
Electric cars still aren't paying for road infrastructure.
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 08:56 PM   #20
ScotchanDry
Family XR8s in Grey
 
ScotchanDry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 241
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Roo View Post
It would be interesting to be in an autonomous car. Going home from the Pub or a party. When pulled over for a RBT and your over the legal limit. Who would get charged with drink driving. If, the car was in autonomous mode and you were in the drivers seat.
I'm pretty certain from what i have read you still (at this stage ) must be in full control if necessary, similar to being mentor to learner driver.
the rules will be pretty tight for some time I expect
__________________
2016 FG XR8 Sprint in Smoke
2002 AU3 XR8 in Meteorite
"its all grey from now on"
ScotchanDry is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 20-03-2018, 11:36 PM   #21
Fordblue1000
Regular Member
 
Fordblue1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Roxby Downs
Posts: 69
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Im in favor of the development of this tech. Look at the facts. Their designed to take the safe option at all times. Computing power is always invreasing year on year. It is only a matter of time till these issues are sorted out. Tragic for all involved with this incident. Im sure after all investigations are completed there will be a learning outcome, and programming adjustments made. Thats what these tech companies do. They want to remove the human element as we are, by nature quite unstable. We push the envelopes at times. A computer will just do its next programmed parameter and follow THAT instruction. I love driving my cars. But there is a real future in the new technology as well. We all had better get used to it now as it will be here in our backyards within 5 years im sure.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk
__________________
1997 el futura.
1978 P6 town car.
1975 xb coupe.
1963 morris.
1920 model T
Fordblue1000 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-03-2018, 12:07 AM   #22
CoupeKing
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,323
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Why rush with these vehicles?
CoupeKing is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-03-2018, 06:54 PM   #23
roddy1960
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
roddy1960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St Marys Tasmania
Posts: 3,562
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jastel View Post
Govt should wake up and write the laws on fault, ethics and insurance BEFORE these things are on the road...but what hope hope is there when uber is pulling the strings...

It is not like it is a surprise to anyone that these companies ignore rules.
(I know they are legal in Arizona...I was referring to Australia)
Yes , that's a real important point .. Imagine if one day fully autonomous vehicles were owned privately or even leased . The owner or leaser goes to a club or pub and gets sozzled and gets in his car to bring him home . On the way the car collides with another car or pedestrian . Is the person liable even if he or she was not driving ?. Governments , manufacturers will need to have stuff like that clarified before these cars seriously hit the roads I reckon .
roddy1960 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-03-2018, 07:38 PM   #24
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,332
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_nofx View Post
First fully autonomous car death.

Meanwhile, in the US, 102 people die every single day due to motor vehicle accidents.

I wonder if the pedestrian is at all to blame, ie, Jay walking, not looking both ways, etc. I mean, it’s not ALWAYS the car or drivers fault if a pedestrian is hit even in a regular car.
I guess the Tesla not seeing that truck and hitting it at full speed was not counted.

How many regular cars are on US roads verse autonomous?
I'm not say autonomous car are horrible, but some people put too much faith in them at these early stages.
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 21-03-2018, 07:46 PM   #25
Maka
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
 
Maka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,093
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Embodiment of the AFF spirit in his efforts with ACP. 
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

They will logically probably drop the speed limits until they find a compromise between safety & speed with these dastardly autonomous vehicles lol.

Problem is why do human drivers potentially have to cop the same speed limits if it actually happens, a good human driver is better than a cyborg car imo.

cheers, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792

Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007)
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-03-2018, 12:18 AM   #26
Jastel
Donating Member
Donating Member1
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,430
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has much experience with taxis and always jumps on here to explain things simply and help out the new guys in B-series and Contemporary... 
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy1960 View Post
Yes , that's a real important point .. Imagine if one day fully autonomous vehicles were owned privately or even leased . The owner or leaser goes to a club or pub and gets sozzled and gets in his car to bring him home . On the way the car collides with another car or pedestrian . Is the person liable even if he or she was not driving ?. Governments , manufacturers will need to have stuff like that clarified before these cars seriously hit the roads I reckon .

Are you aware uber and other self driving vehicle manufacturers do not want the public to be allowed to own self driving vehicles...they want total control of everything.

Latest news is the "cough" driver of the robo car was an ex felon as well.

I seriously wonder how many free passes this company will get....
Jastel is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-03-2018, 08:32 AM   #27
OzJavelin
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
OzJavelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,638
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben73 View Post
I guess the Tesla not seeing that truck and hitting it at full speed was not counted.
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-au...y-crash-radar/

Quote:
Tesla didn't confirm the car was running Autopilot at the time of the crash, but its manual does warn that the system is ill-equipped to handle this exact sort of situation: “Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead.”
...
Volvo's semi-autonomous system, Pilot Assist, has the same shortcoming. Say the car in front of the Volvo changes lanes or turns off the road, leaving nothing between the Volvo and a stopped car. "Pilot Assist will ignore the stationary vehicle and instead accelerate to the stored speed," Volvo's manual reads, meaning the cruise speed the driver punched in. "The driver must then intervene and apply the brakes.” In other words, your Volvo won't brake to avoid hitting a stopped car that suddenly appears up ahead. It might even accelerate towards it.
...
The same is true for any car currently equipped with adaptive cruise control, or automated emergency braking. It sounds like a glaring flaw, the kind of horrible mistake engineers race to eliminate. Nope. These systems are designed to ignore static obstacles because otherwise, they couldn't work at all.
OzJavelin is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-03-2018, 11:16 AM   #28
irish2
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,461
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

http://ktar.com/story/1997617/tempe-...-driving-uber/

Video of the crash. Pretty damning for all of the sensors on board.
irish2 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 22-03-2018, 11:18 AM   #29
solarite_guy
Donating Member
Donating Member1
 
solarite_guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,443
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: He continually offers Technical Advice that is based on years of experience and knowledge he has gained along the way. The advice has ranged from replies to questions across the various Threads to seeking information from OP and taking that away to undert 
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Not good.
solarite_guy is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-03-2018, 11:38 AM   #30
DJR-351
I am Groot
Donating Member3
 
DJR-351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Burnett Heads, Qld
Posts: 6,842
Default Re: Autonomous vehicle kills a pedestrian

Quote:
Originally Posted by irish2 View Post
http://ktar.com/story/1997617/tempe-...-driving-uber/

Video of the crash. Pretty damning for all of the sensors on board.
Pretty damning footage, also answers my question why the idiot supposedly monitoring the vehicle was unable to prevent the accident.....
__________________
..
McLaren F1
Dick Johnson Racing

"Those were the days when the cars were cars, they weren't built out of an Ikea pack like they are now and clothed in plastic; they were real cars." John Bowe
DJR-351 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 04:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL