5000th RAM

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is a big deal. Everyone on the road benefits with these things having better brakes. Whether it’s kids on their bikes, pedestrians crossing roads and other people in other cars.

When these things hit, it’s not like being hit by a Yaris. They do a lot of damage. And with the top two selling cars in the country now being 2.2 tonne leaf spring, drum brake utes and with now a rising road toll all aspects needs looking at.

Emphasis should always be on safety and adequate towing performance, not prioritising a Thailand taxation loophole

I think vehicle type needs to be categorized in fatality crashes. Most of time when I see a vehicle put its right hand wheels across double lines on a right hand bend its usually a dual cab ute. Wouldn't want to slow a little and lose momentum.

[jpd80]

Towing 7,000 lbs (~3,300 kg) at 70 mph (~110 kph)

Fuel economy = US 9.4 mpg ...25 litres/100 km



The big Cummins diesel got 8.7 mpg.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

so how about banning old vehicles then? anything older than 10years needs to be scrapped?

I'm with jpd on this. its making a mountain out of a molehill because its good to knock the ford products on a ford forum. I'm sure the braking ability passes ford's internal testing. i'm yet to read a review where the braking performance is said to be not good enough, or any feedback on caravan forums where the brakes are criticized.

this thread is about the RAM. It is possible to be positive about a car without turning it in to a contest, or putting down a rival. RAM certainly has its pro's, but in 1500 guise, rear axle weight limit isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by jpd80

This will be the new whinge now that the diesel Ranger Raptor has been "cured"....
never mind that some larger vehicles still have drum brake rears, let's just kick the Ford.

Just the usual whinger using anything he can to kick ford cause he’s all butthurt holden are just about dead. Seriously needs to get a life. What kind of loser spends all his time on a forum about something he hates?

Either way that whinge has a ticking clock. Then he’ll need to find the next thing.

[BENT_8]

Not bad considering the trailer the 1500 is towing looks like a brick, the fuel was below recommended octane rating and they're pulling it at 110k's.
Old mate I spoke to said sub 20's on what you'd have to assume is 91ron, a more aerodynamic van and I doubt it would be at those speeds.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just the usual whinger using anything he can to kick ford cause he’s all butthurt holden are just about dead. Seriously needs to get a life. What kind of loser spends all his time on a forum about something he hates?

Either way that whinge has a ticking clock. Then he’ll need to find the next thing.

[lra]

Drum brakes, leaf springs, ladder frame, top heavy COG …. pfffft…. who cares.
Maaate, it will tow me 3.5 ton van, and its got lots of electronic thingys in the dash with a built-in-out-of-date satnav so I don't get lost towing me van to the park 50km from me house.

[jpd80]

[BENT_8]

Only .7mpg difference considering the Hemi has 4wd, 3.9 ratio and bigger tyres, i'd take that for the looks and sound alone, never mind the 1 minute quicker run.

[Brazen]

Diesel is dead in light commercials and passenger cars.

Petrol has gotten so good, and diesel gotten so crap in recent years that we have passed the threshold of diesel being worth it about 5 years back.

Fortunately for car makers there is a lot of sales momentum behind things like utes so they are safe for now. But like SUVs where diesel sales collapsed during 2019 and passenger cars earlier, utes will get to that point eventually too - I’m betting probably in the next two years

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Diesel is dead in light commercials and passenger cars.

Petrol has gotten so good, and diesel gotten so crap in recent years that we have passed the threshold of diesel being worth it about 5 years back.

Fortunately for car makers there is a lot of sales momentum behind things like utes so they are safe for now. But like SUVs where diesel sales collapsed during 2019, utes will get to that point eventually too - I’m betting probably in the next two years

Don't know as I'm not into this type of vehicle.
Although new diesel vehicles are bog down with all the crap these days, I still don't know whether I would want a petrol 4X4 if I lived in the outback.
Something about electronics, spark plugs, dust, vibrations and river crossings that do not fill me with confidences.
Diesel were always the best for towing given their torque and ability to hold consistent coolant temps climbing mountain passes but I guess times change and so do the buying public.
The Hemi V8 has always been an iconic engine too which helps sell the RAM petrol.

[Franco Cozzo]

Modern diesel sucks - I've got a TDCI Focus and the 1.6L Ecoboost engine my old man's Fiesta ST has matches it's torque, has 59KW more power and uses a tiny bit more fuel - 6.5L/100km vs 5.5L/100km and doesn't have all the associated BS that modern diesels do.

The only benefit to diesel in passenger cars is that when unleaded fluctuates up 40cpl overnight diesel stays steady.

In 2011 it made sense as a P plater with vehicle restrictions, in 2020 it doesn't pass the sniff test.

Also something to keep in mind the Cummins 6BT is an old platform in the RAM 2500/3500 it's been around in 6.7L form for a good decade now, maybe more.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Only .7mpg difference considering the Hemi has 4wd, 3.9 ratio and bigger tyres, i'd take that for the looks and sound alone, never mind the 1 minute quicker run.

And this is the point for a lot of Americans, the premium charged for even the
V6 diesel means that pay back could be years. Elsewhere I've seen that towing
at 70 mph, the hemi gets around 10 mpg, the diesel was around 13mpg.
That 30% difference between diesel and petrol is repeated over and over in
other tests, even the bigger Heavy dutys.

Australia and Europe are different where fuel taxes slug the motorists and businesses.
In our case diesel makes sense but not the itty bitty diesels that Europe needs for compliance.
a 200 kw V6 diesel in our utes probably makes sense for fuel efficiency and performance
but I wonder if a 3.5 V6 petrol hybrid would be better with far less maintenance cost

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also something to keep in mind the Cummins 6BT is an old platform in the RAM 2500/3500 it's been around in 6.7L form for a good decade now, maybe more.

Now an old 5.9 6BT mechanical would be a nice repower for something I've been thinking about.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Australia and Europe are different where fuel taxes slug the motorists and businesses.
In our case diesel makes sense but not the itty bitty diesels that Europe needs for compliance.
a 200 kw V6 diesel in our utes probably makes sense for fuel efficiency and performance
but I wonder if a 3.5 V6 petrol hybrid would be better with far less maintenance cost

I don't think there's enough in it to justify the diesel anymore, where I live diesel is around 1.50l, unleaded fluctuates between 1.20 and 1.70l, so its swings and roundabouts as some days you win on petrol and some days you win on diesel, personally I don't get hung up on fuel economy.
Its funny how we go through trends, 30yrs ago manufacturers advertised interior space as a selling point, 10 years ago it was 5 star safety ratings, today its fuel economy and in 10yrs time it'll be something different again, probably battery efficiency, but i'll still just buy what I like the look of and pay whatever it costs to fill it up, truth be known, I spend more every week on takeaway and don't bat an eyelid.

From personal experience, I wasn't a fan of the Diesel Territory, great vehicle to drive, but the more I read about the costs associated with owning it if things go wrong, the more it concerned me, it had me listening to every little noise it made and wondering if each one could be the catalyst for an expensive repair.
I now have a petrol SY with 4sp, truth is it costs no more to run than the diesel, well, nothing worth mentioning anyway, does everything I ask of it and wont need 2k worth of drive belts or fuel pumps replaced at any tick of the clock.
This coincides with what old mate said last fortnight, the petrol does everything the previous diesels he'd owned did, for a slight increase in day to day running costs but without the worry of keeping the diesel running.

There's no doubt a diesel has its place, but for the vast majority of people and their needs, its no longer a necessity.

And whilst you and old mate Boss think I was kicking the thought of a V8 Ranger, you couldn't be further from the truth, I think its a bloody brilliant idea, certainly better than a bloody 2.0l, and now that I've looked at the weights associated I retract my comments with that regard as it will be little if anything, just goes to show how light an all alloy V8 can be.

My2c.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

There's no doubt a diesel has its place, but for the vast majority of people and their needs, its no longer a necessity.

And whilst you and old mate Boss think I was kicking the thought of a V8 Ranger, you couldn't be further from the truth, I think its a bloody brilliant idea, certainly better than a bloody 2.0l, and now that I've looked at the weights associated I retract my comments with that regard as it will be little if anything, just goes to show how light an all alloy V8 can be.

My2c.

More like the moment we get good news on a V8 RR, some folks want to go off on a tangent about rear drum brakes and safety. The Raptor has 4Wh discs and rest is on the to do list for next gen, a lot of changes will be batched then.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Don't know as I'm not into this type of vehicle.
Although new diesel vehicles are bog down with all the crap these days, I still don't know whether I would want a petrol 4X4 if I lived in the outback.
Something about electronics, spark plugs, dust, vibrations and river crossings that do not fill me with confidences.
Diesel were always the best for towing given their torque and ability to hold consistent coolant temps climbing mountain passes but I guess times change and so do the buying public.
The Hemi V8 has always been an iconic engine too which helps sell the RAM petrol.

Well, it’s not the 1980s anymore so the modern diesels have just as much electrics to go wrong as the petrols - high pressure common rail and associated sensors, electric injectors, throttle, boost and MAF sensors, variable geometry turbos.
Now compounded with adblue and DPF set up.
In saying that there are many modern CR diesels that have proven themselves in the reliability stakes but I’d still caution buying a used one out of warranty.
Petrol engines in comparison have remained relatively simple especially the V8s in the Ram and GMs.

The only reason why diesels have the reputation for torque is from the old gutless things like 1HZ and TD42 with ultra short gearing. Their figures are abysmal compared to a Petrol engine from the same era like the 1990s commodore/Falcon 6s.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

More like the moment we get good news on a V8 RR, some folks want to go off on a tangent about rear drum brakes and safety. The Raptor has 4Wh discs and rest is on the to do list for next gen, a lot of changes will be batched then.

Well, no, that's not true either, Brazen first mentioned wanting 4 wheel discs on the 30/12, Franco then brought up the fact that the Thai utes run drums on the back soon after, news of the V8 Ranger didn't appear until yesterday, 3 days later.
No one went off on a tangent the moment we got news on a V8 RR.

[Bossxr8]

Petrols could take over in dual cabs when the economy get’s low enough. Until then diesels will be the rule.

Petrol hybrids will probably be needed to get economy good enough. Ranger hybrid might piggyback off f series hybrid. But depends on cost as well. Is a petrol hybrid going to cost as much as a diesel? Or even more?

[roKWiz]

smoo wrote....... Well, it’s not the 1980s anymore so the modern diesels have just as much electrics to go wrong as the petrols - high pressure common rail and associated sensors, electric injectors, throttle, boost and MAF sensors, variable geometry turbos.
Now compounded with adblue and DPF set up.
In saying that there are many modern CR diesels that have proven themselves in the reliability stakes but I’d still caution buying a used one out of warranty.
Petrol engines in comparison have remained relatively simple especially the V8s in the Ram and GMs.

The only reason why diesels have the reputation for torque is from the old gutless things like 1HZ and TD42 with ultra short gearing. Their figures are abysmal compared to a Petrol engine from the same era like the 1990s commodore/Falcon 6s.

We all are aware of the over complicated poor excuse that is the modern diesel.
What I was trying to express, Are petrol engine 4X4s reliable enough in the outback, compared to the all to familiar diesel most use still.

[lra]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Are petrol engine 4X4s reliable enough in the outback, compared to the all to familiar diesel most use still.

Why wouldn't they be as 'reliable' as a diesel ?
The days of fixing your engine on the side of the road with a pair of pliers, a piece of fencing wire and some chewing gum are gone.
Any engine that stops these days is a flat bed truck recovery, can't even attach a tow rope and tow it without upsetting some sensor.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by lra

Why wouldn't they be as 'reliable' as a diesel ?
The days of fixing your engine on the side of the road with a pair of pliers, a piece of fencing wire and some chewing gum are gone.
Any engine that stops these days is a flat bed truck recovery, can't even attach a tow rope and tow it without upsetting some sensor.

I don't know that's what I'm asking. !
Example, to make it simply for some here...... an older diesels ability to cross water without stalling due to water ingress over components ie, distributor, spark plugs, coils etc.
Flatbed truck recovery ! in the outback ?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well, no, that's not true either, Brazen first mentioned wanting 4 wheel discs on the 30/12, Franco then brought up the fact that the Thai utes run drums on the back soon after, news of the V8 Ranger didn't appear until yesterday, 3 days later.
No one went off on a tangent the moment we got news on a V8 RR.

Once again you are correct, the RR V8 thread was not taken off course.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Now an old 5.9 6BT mechanical would be a nice repower for something I've been thinking about.

I had one - got it for $1100, it was an old generator engine with a rotary injection pump, plan was to get the injection pump modified to suit automotive purpose then put it into my GMC Sierra 3500.

This was it here:

[lra]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Example, to make it simply for some here...... an older diesels ability to cross water without stalling due to water ingress over components ie, distributor, spark plugs, coils etc. Flatbed truck recovery ! in the outback ?

Bit crossed up here, you were talking about older, mechanical diesels, (?) I was talking about the latest and greatest.
If a Raptor spat the dummy in the Oodnagalarbi Track heading to Goomapeechi, (not real places) which it designed for, who would be able to fix it ? Chances are, if it was an older Falcodore, somebody would have bits somewhere. That’s why the indigenous communities love them.
A couple of weeks ago I was reading a 4x4 report by one of the regular motor noters, (can’t remember who/what) who broke down on the southern part of the Tanami Track, and had to flat bed it back to Alice Springs. I’m pretty sure that the Birdsville servo also has one available.
But …. I have seen a very late model LandCruiser (minus wheels) on the Savannah Way. That road is where, if you break down, you gather your belongings and leave it.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

smoo wrote....... Well, it’s not the 1980s anymore so the modern diesels have just as much electrics to go wrong as the petrols - high pressure common rail and associated sensors, electric injectors, throttle, boost and MAF sensors, variable geometry turbos.
Now compounded with adblue and DPF set up.
In saying that there are many modern CR diesels that have proven themselves in the reliability stakes but I’d still caution buying a used one out of warranty.
Petrol engines in comparison have remained relatively simple especially the V8s in the Ram and GMs.

The only reason why diesels have the reputation for torque is from the old gutless things like 1HZ and TD42 with ultra short gearing. Their figures are abysmal compared to a Petrol engine from the same era like the 1990s commodore/Falcon 6s.

We all are aware of the over complicated poor excuse that is the modern diesel.
What I was trying to express, Are petrol engine 4X4s reliable enough in the outback, compared to the all to familiar diesel most use still.

Most diesels on the road are modern CRD, and from what Ive seen working and traveling WA most in regional areas are the same.
So if they have proven themselves in regional areas theres no reason why a petrol that uses similar engine management tech can't.
The biggest issue with petrol is range/fuel economy especially with larger tyres or high load, towing, low range work etc.
Coincidently I spent half the day on a T909 E5 fuel pressure issues. No fix, handball to Cummins tomorrow as I don't have the right gear to fully diagnose and not prepared to throw thousands of dollars worth of parts at it in hope of fixing it. Although I'm sure Cummins will do just that
It still got home, they usually do, just much slower.

[jpd80]

Looking at the Ram Hemi and the Hybrid set up available, I think that's a good start
but maybe they could take that a bit further with bigger motor and battery.

Our country and vehicle requirements have always been a bit different to elsewhere
so I wonder if a V6 petrol hybrid would be a much better fit for our 4x4 crew cab Utes.
Many are cars hiding in plain sight that aren't normally heavily loaded or even tow stuff.

Most of the issue with petrol fuel economy is due the engines going rich under moderate load,
perhaps manufacturers need to take a leaf out of heavier vehicles and set the Utes up to stay
a bit leaner deeper into the throttle by using a slightly bigger engine reconfigured for efficiency.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Looking at the Ram Hemi and the Hybrid set up available, I think that's a good start
but maybe they could take that a bit further with bigger motor and battery.

Our country and vehicle requirements have always been a bit different to elsewhere
so I wonder if a V6 petrol hybrid would be a much better fit for our 4x4 crew cab Utes.
Many are cars hiding in plain sight that aren't normally heavily loaded or even tow stuff.

Most of the issue with petrol fuel economy is due the engines going rich under moderate load,
perhaps manufacturers need to take a leaf out of heavier vehicles and set the Utes up to stay
a bit leaner deeper into the throttle by using a slightly bigger engine reconfigured for efficiency.

If it is a hybrid then i would assume they would downsize for a petrol 4 cylinder engine. Not a v6.

Doesn’t make much sense making an economy hybrid and then use a bigger engine with it.

The f150 hybrid is out this year so i will be interested to see how that goes. Interestingly enough some reports are saying it will be a v8 hybrid. So they must be going after the performance option. Possibly the new 4.8 litre v8. Will it share this engine with mustang hybrid?

The big selling point for f150 hybrid is the ability to use the batteries from the hybrid setup to run power tools etc.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If it is a hybrid then i would assume they would downsize for a petrol 4 cylinder engine. Not a v6.

Doesn’t make much sense making an economy hybrid and then use a bigger engine with it.

But is it truly an economy hybrid or just making a petrol V6 more efficient
in areas where i traditionally drinks fuel?

The f150 hybrid is out this year so i will be interested to see how that goes. Interestingly enough some reports are saying it will be a v8 hybrid. So they must be going after the performance option. Possibly the new 4.8 litre v8. Will it share this engine with mustang hybrid?

Yep, story is that they are sharing the 5.0 Coyote Hybrid.
The 4.8 story was a misread whisper about change of bores in latest 5.0.

The big selling point for f150 hybrid is the ability to use the batteries from the hybrid setup to run power tools etc.

Battery power for workshop tools is selling point for sure but I thought most
F150s were bought as shopping trolleys and occasional tow vehicles.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Towing 7,000 lbs (~3,300 kg) at 70 mph (~110 kph)

Fuel economy = US 9.4 mpg ...25 litres/100 km



The big Cummins diesel got 8.7 mpg.

5.7 should have cylinder deactivation above 70km/h. I know mine did under 'light load'. I wonder if a 3t caravan at 110km/h along the flat is still considered a light load on the engine. V8 power while acceleration, ascending hills, etc would be great if it only uses 4cyl when cruising at a constant speed.

Originally Posted by jpd80

And this is the point for a lot of Americans, the premium charged for even the
V6 diesel means that pay back could be years. Elsewhere I've seen that towing
at 70 mph, the hemi gets around 10 mpg, the diesel was around 13mpg.
That 30% difference between diesel and petrol is repeated over and over in
other tests, even the bigger Heavy dutys.

Australia and Europe are different where fuel taxes slug the motorists and businesses.
In our case diesel makes sense but not the itty bitty diesels that Europe needs for compliance.
a 200 kw V6 diesel in our utes probably makes sense for fuel efficiency and performance
but I wonder if a 3.5 V6 petrol hybrid would be better with far less maintenance cost

Have to agree, but we aren't big enough to get our own focus. We are just stuck in the middle and get either what USA or Europe gets. Depends on the origin of the car.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Ben73

5.7 should have cylinder deactivation above 70km/h. I know mine did under 'light load'. I wonder if a 3t caravan at 110km/h along the flat is still considered a light load on the engine. V8 power while acceleration, ascending hills, etc would be great if it only uses 4cyl when cruising at a constant speed.

I think you'll find that it's around US10 mpg with the Hemi and US13 mpg with 3.0 Ecodiesel.
https://www.tfltruck.com/2018/03/top...-highway-loop/

Have to agree, but we aren't big enough to get our own focus. We are just stuck in the middle and get either what USA or Europe gets. Depends on the origin of the car.

The RR V8 might signal a change in approach, sure it's top end stuff but,
if Ford shows head office that we've been fishing with the wrong bait then,
perhaps our market is then seen through different eyes..