Burnley Tunnel fire - Page 3

Hybrid34 · 23-03-2007, 07:22 PM

not sure if the details have been said but there was a bank up in the tunnel, and a truck coming in to fast didn't break, so he swerved to miss the car that was stationary, and slammed into the back of another car on the left land, causing the car to be squashed between to trucks, thus where the explosion came from...

iCat · 23-03-2007, 07:23 PM

Terrible, terrible accident.

I have a huge amount of respect for truck drivers, and how they negotiate their rigs on our congested roads.

I must ask though, how can you not notice a large stationary truck in the tunnel in adequate time? I haven't been through there for quite a while - is distance visibility limited?

**Full Noise** · 23-03-2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hybrid34

not sure if the details have been said but there was a bank up in the tunnel, and a truck coming in to fast didn't break, so he swerved to miss the car that was stationary, and slammed into the back of another car on the left land, causing the car to be squashed between to trucks, thus where the explosion came from...

The 9 News had a quite interesting computer simulation of what had happened. Obviously they, or someone informing them, had access to the CCTV footage.

The broken down truck had stopped in the left lane. There was another truck in the middle lane that must have been aware of the situation in front of him. There were two cars in the left lane behind the broken down truck that decided to change lanes at the last second with the truck in the centre lane literally right beside them.

Perhaps if some of these car drivers looked a little more than six feet in front of them while driving, perhaps these things may not happen.

Psycho Chicken · 23-03-2007, 07:37 PM

From the description on channel 9 it seems people just can't merge and still haven't figured out trucks take longer to slow down.

snypereb · 23-03-2007, 07:46 PM

Not good at all. By sounds of things there is a possiblity of there being more people dead inside I dont reacon the tunnel will open this weekend.

**Fordman1** · 23-03-2007, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

It will never happen in my lifetime!

No I can't see it EVER happening either !

Dezza · 23-03-2007, 08:03 PM

I was hearing this on the radio all afternoon and work and couldn't believe it. I saw some pictures on the news when I got home, and it looks like a complete mess. Condolences to all that have lost loved ones simply due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

frd_crzer · 23-03-2007, 08:11 PM

there were 3 trucks and 7 cars involded there has been 3 condfirmed dead

Bucknaked · 23-03-2007, 08:23 PM

There are some images on this site

http://www.news.com.au/0,,nsw,00.html

Keepleft · 23-03-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

The 9 News had a quite interesting computer simulation of what had happened. Obviously they, or someone informing them, had access to the CCTV footage.

The broken down truck had stopped in the left lane. There was another truck in the middle lane that must have been aware of the situation in front of him. There were two cars in the left lane behind the broken down truck that decided to change lanes at the last second with the truck in the centre lane literally right beside them.

Perhaps if some of these car drivers looked a little more than six feet in front of them while driving, perhaps these things may not happen.

Look, if lane discipline was correctly practiced in VIC, that truck in the middle lane would have been in the left lane 'normally', the cars in the left lane would have been in the centre lane beforehand, having moved to that spot through traffic necessity to overtake and pass. They'd then move back in after passing the slower traffic.

Now, as the second truck sees the need to move out becasue of the break-down, the right indicator goes on ASAP and stays on as he merges to fully to the middle IF it is clear. Cars are far more agile than trucks, it is the cars that need to move around more than trucks, and are normally in a position to do so.

Randomly 'cruising' along in most any lane in typical undisciplined action is a contributing factor to many a crash, including this one. It is not the sole factor by any means, many variables we don't know of yet.

The keep middle mentality kills.

iCat · 23-03-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

There are some images on this site

http://www.news.com.au/0,,nsw,00.html

anyone notice what's written on the side of one of the trucks in the last image?

Keepleft · 23-03-2007, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCat

anyone notice what's written on the side of one of the trucks in the last image?

"Ahh McCain, you've done it again".

BOB, below:-
For a tunnel to not incorporate full-length breakdown/emergency lane is purely cost cutting.

bob^ · 23-03-2007, 08:38 PM

I don't think the tunnel had THAT much of an impact on the accident(as much as people make it out to be anyway - although it doesn't have an emergency lane...). I hear lots of people saying how much they hate the tunnel, and this is why they don't use the tunnel, etc.
But lets face it, an accident could happen anywhere. We have had great multi car fatalities in the past on open roads.
Had there been a massive accident which resulted in motorists trapped in the tunnel with no way out, and a fire blazing through, then one could say the tunnel had a great impact on the accident.

**Charliewool** · 23-03-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

The 9 News had a quite interesting computer simulation of what had happened. Obviously they, or someone informing them, had access to the CCTV footage.

The broken down truck had stopped in the left lane. There was another truck in the middle lane that must have been aware of the situation in front of him. There were two cars in the left lane behind the broken down truck that decided to change lanes at the last second with the truck in the centre lane literally right beside them.

Perhaps if some of these car drivers looked a little more than six feet in front of them while driving, perhaps these things may not happen.

Danny, I Saw that on 9 news also...And you are spot on!...
The average motorist has NO bloody idea of "reading the play"
This is where a motorcycle or truck background is invaluable!... You are looking AND ANTICIPATING well ahead!.. Most car drivers ASSUME, not ANTICIPATE

Scott · 23-03-2007, 09:09 PM

Seems to be a few sources saying he was changing a tyre. If there's no emergency lane, why would you stop in a tunnel to change a tyre?? Whether it be a front or not, surely you would just drive out as best you can and pull over somewhere safe. I don't know about a semi but it's not hard to drive a car with only one front tyre.

Anyone here driven a large truck on one front tyre who can comment?

**Full Noise** · 23-03-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Anyone here driven a large truck on one front tyre who can comment?

Yes I have and it’s not impossible to drive at a low speed to get out of a tricky situation.

It’s only speculation that it was a blown tyre. I find that it would be highly unlikely that the truck stopped for this reason. No truck driver in his right mind would stop in the tunnel just to change a blown tyre, whatever axle it’s on. I suspect that the struck stopped because it suffered some sort of mechanical failure that prevented it from being moved.

GT290 · 23-03-2007, 09:38 PM

[QUOTE=Full Noise]Yes I have and it’s not impossible to drive at a low speed to get out of a tricky situation.

It’s only speculation that it was a blown tyre. I find that it would be highly unlikely that the truck stopped for this reason. No truck driver in his right mind would stop in the tunnel just to change a blown tyre, whatever axle it’s on. I suspect that the struck stopped because it suffered some sort of mechanical failure that prevented it from being moved.[/QUOTE
Iwas traveling throught he M5 tunnel. two semis either side of me and cars in front. I am a very confident driver and it takes a lot to scar me but being stuck in the middle lane with a semi on both sides of you scared the crap out of me cause it would have taken one mistake and it would be al over.

X ORSMXR · 23-03-2007, 09:45 PM

Hi guys one of my co drivers this morning was behind the finemores truck when he had his blow out, and he simply just stoppped in the left lane...totally un called for as this was not a steer tyre therefore should have drivin out of the tunnel like every other truck driver that has a blow out.(must be very inexperienced driver to stop).
l travel this tunnel every morning and was just waiting for this to happen as l have seen cars weaving in and out of slow moving trucks,and most of us only use the 2 left lanes, and speed has nothing to do with this accident, just poor judgement made by the cars behind the the broken down semi.

ln my opinion having trucks just use the left lane only will only cause more congestion as we will have one big long convoy of trucks coming out the other side battleing for postion, also touching on the road rules people need to be aware of the biggest road rage cause KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVER TAKING!!!!!!this one sh its me to death it seems us truck drivers only know about this law.

The easiest way to fix this from happening again or anywhere else is to have better education for the public on breaking distances and further education on Trucks as we have a better view on the situation.

Cheers Chris and my heart goes out to those lost souls.

Keepleft · 23-03-2007, 09:51 PM

"left two lanes"??? Left/middle/right. Or, on a proper motorway vis;

2.5-3.0m left shoulder, 2 x or 3 x 3.5 metre traffic lanes COMPRISING in the case of three; - left:middle:right, 0.5m right shoulder-edge. Median/barrier etc. Oncoming lanes.

That you clearly identify "keep left unless overtaking" as an issue is obvious in stating the following, yet are seemingly guilty of not doing so yourself as an industry;

Quote:

"as l have seen cars weaving in and out of slow moving trucks, and most of us only use the 2 left lanes"

(To get past/around them you see), shows too many heavy vehicles are not keeping left. Trust me, you can be arrested for this in Europe.

Signs along the lines of those used in NSW on the F3 will eventually be used to prohibit heavy vehicles from the right lane of three-laned sections of motorway in Victoria.

* Applicable unless all lanes are blocked and the right lane is the only lane moving at a slow speed.

NB - as a rule I have much sympathy for heavy vehicle drivers in their ongoing daily grind with car drivers.

Uncle Raggy · 23-03-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

These tunnels are all built on the cheap. They used to build them with breakdown lanes the whole way through, now they are just built for profit.

And that is exactly what the RTA has just done to the tunnel on the M2 in sydney. It was 2 lanes witht the breakdown lane, now its 3, but the third lane ends just after the tunnel. In effect it backs the traffic up in the tunnel, and people entering don't have a clear view in the afternoon because of the sun. So I feel that we might end up with the same sad situation here soon too.

My condolences to all family and friends involved.

X ORSMXR · 23-03-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

"left two lanes"??? Left/middle/right. Or, on a proper motorway vis;

2.5-3.0m left shoulder, 2 x or 3 x 3.5 metre traffic lanes COMPRISING in the case of three; - left:middle:right, 0.5m right shoulder-edge. Median/barrier etc. Oncoming lanes.

That you clearly identify "keep left unless overtaking" as an issue is obvious in stating the following, yet are seemingly guilty of not doing so yourself as an industry; (To get past/around them you see), shows too many heavy vehicles are not keeping left. Trust me, you can be arrested for this in Europe.

Signs along the lines of those used in NSW on the F3 will eventually be used to prohibit heavy vehicles from the right lane of three-laned sections of motorway in Victoria.

* Applicable unless all lanes a blocked and the right lane is the only lane moving at a slow speed.

NB - as a rule I have much sympathy for heavy vehicle drivers in their ongoing daily grind with car drivers.

Mate l can see you wouldn't have many friends when it comes to driving laws it sounds like you live in the Road Laws book.
And l assume you drive a car, some people don't realise how much we concentrate on driving and predicting what the 10 vehicles are going to do next, and also every road has it's issues and City Link has allot to answer for as this carriage way is to far in the way of congested as well as the Monash.

mik · 23-03-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Mate l can see you wouldn't have many friends when it comes to driving laws it sounds like you live in the Road Laws book.
And l assume you drive a car, some people don't realise how much we concentrate on driving and pridicting what the 10 vehicles are going to do next, and also every road has it's issues and City Link has alot to answer for as this carriage way is to far in the way of congisted as well as the Monash.

spot on and its not uncommon for motorists to try and fit through a gap thats not there cause an accident and the trucky gets blamed, motorists have no clue ........also there is a huge blind spot on the left hand side of a semi as semi driver you have to drive for yourself and watch the actions of unpredictable motorists as well, condolences to the familys of the accident victims.

GXL078 · 23-03-2007, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncleraggy

And that is exactly what the RTA has just done to the tunnel on the M2 in sydney .

And the airport tunnel on General Holmes drive as well. It used to have a brakedown lane AND a footpath, I remember riding my bike thourgh there as a kid.

**Polyal** · 23-03-2007, 11:12 PM

This is just devestating news, felt sick listening to it on the radio at work all day.

I gave the GF a big hug when she got home thats for sure.

While its going to be horrific to see, surely there would be secuirity footage?

Scott · 23-03-2007, 11:24 PM

Hang on a minute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Hi guys one of my co drivers this morning was behind the finemores truck when he had his blow out, and he simply just stoppped in the left lane...totally un called for as this was not a steer tyre therefore should have drivin out of the tunnel like every other truck driver that has a blow out.(must be very inexperienced driver to stop)...............
.........................speed has nothing to do with this accident, just poor judgement made by the cars behind the the broken down semi.

The easiest way to fix this from happening again or anywhere else is to have better education for the public on breaking distances and further education on Trucks as we have a better view on the situation.

The other motorists were not the catalyst for the tragedy by this account from an eye witness. A truck stopped in the middle of a lane, in traffic, in a tunnel to change a freakin tyre!??!

Plenty can rabbit on about how people in cars have no clue and don't understand etc etc but FFS, by this account the finger can be squarely pointed at one complete moron who it seems has directly caused the death of innocent people who were probably doing little wrong. Who the hell stops ON THE MOTORWAY to change a tyre? I had really hoped this wouldn't have been the case.

Surely there must be more to this than that. Lets hope.

The G6ET Spot · 23-03-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

Mate l can see you wouldn't have many friends when it comes to driving laws it sounds like you live in the Road Laws book.
And l assume you drive a car, some people don't realise how much we concentrate on driving and predicting what the 10 vehicles are going to do next, and also every road has it's issues and City Link has allot to answer for as this carriage way is to far in the way of congested as well as the Monash.

I totally agree with you ORSMXR. I think it is about time that all these motoring advocates and politicians actualy got into a truck and saw what we have to put up with on a daily basis.But not for just one day as they do now.Get in for a week or more and see what it is like every day not just on one occasion.I am that fed up with the over regulation of the industry that I am seriously weighing up my options now after 30 years of driving. And they wonder why most of the older drivers are getting out of it.

schmidty · 23-03-2007, 11:42 PM

I refuse to drive in the left lane in the tunnel.

Driving a truck that is pretty well powered, i'll pull out of the tunnel at 75kmh fully loaded, i'm not going to be stuck in behind con the fruiterer doing 35kmh coming out the other side. I'd much prefer to sit in the middle lane also as it gives you 2 possible options to bail if you need to, rather than a congested lane or the wall as these cars found out as they came up behind the stationary semi.

So many people are that freakin worried about checking the speedo every 2 seconds going down that incline into the burnley that they arent watching what they are doing. Too worried about getting a ticket.

Based on what we have been told about the driver of the semi being puled over because of a flat tyre, his actions were clearly negligent, he must have been pretty uneducated and lacking in common sense. No rim/tyre is worth putting yourself in that position for let alone other road users. This accident might not be entirely his fault, but it started a massive chain reaction of events that would not have started had his truck not been there in the first place.

This incident clearly displays the lack of caution and emergency defensive driving skills of many road users and ability to anticipate and read the conditions. Driving a truck, you have to be able to drive well ahead of yourself, and anticipate what all the cars ahead, beside and behind you are going to do. Because you have to. If the tool next to you doesnt know any better about the distance it takes you to stop or maneouver, and decides to cut in to get 1 car space ahead, you have to anticipate his actions and allow for it otherwise you hit him!

TRRTRY · 23-03-2007, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORSMXR

ln my opinion having trucks just use the left lane only will only cause more congestion as we will have one big long convoy of trucks coming out the other side battleing for postion, also touching on the road rules people need to be aware of the biggest road rage cause KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVER TAKING!!!!!!this one sh its me to death it seems us truck drivers only know about this law.

.

My biggest complaint about the melbourne tunnels is the trucks using the right hand lane up the hill approaching the exits.

Every single time i go through there, some d|ckwad in a truck is doing 50 up the hill toward the exit, this causes more lane changes by the cars behind than there is in a grand prix.

I drive a truck professionally and do not use the right lane at all anywhere, just as the road rules state, unless i am legitimately overtaking.

When will the other so called professional drivers start displaying some common courtesy and stay in the slow lanes as directed.

A disgrace

X ORSMXR · 24-03-2007, 12:03 AM

Yes l agree that the truck driver is at fault he should have just driven out the other side of the tunnel and we would not be having this convo. And l also use the middle lane of the tunnel as l also come out of the tunnel at near the speed limit and yes the middle lane does give us truck drivers more options to do something if it arises, in most cases every day.
l can see some people coming down pretty hard on us drivers because of what has happened.

Also l would like to say this if someone lets you in front of you or gives way to you when they don't have to GIVE them a wave to say thanks,l think it's rude not too. Also makes the person happy that you have acknowleged them for doing so.

GK351 · 24-03-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schmidty

People wish to know why trucks continue to tailgate on this road?

It is law that heavy vehicles keep to a minimum of 50M following distance to the vehicle in front. Drive 1 and see what happens to your 50M gap when you're on a road such as the monash, westgate, tulla, or any congested melbourne rd you wish to name. It is simply seen as a nice open gap for people to jump lanes or push in. Everyone is in a hurry to go no where. So in 1 way or another you end up closer and closer as cars quickly fill the gap in front, or you follow closer to keep from being continuously pushed in on.

I drive a 48t tipper dog combo and this occours to me often.
Especially when slowing down approaching red lights.
gives me the Sh#$#