Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms

[BroadyFord]

Un. Believable.

Absolute IDIOTS!

Unions urge Toyota workers to reject reforms as industry fights for survival

http://www.theguardian.com/global/20...s-for-survival

Car industry unions have called for Toyota Australia workers to reject a package of workplace changes that the company’s management says is crucial to winning approval to make a new model Camry in Melbourne and for continued exports to the Middle East.

Toyota’s 2,500 assembly workers are due to vote on Friday on the package of measures designed to boost productivity and cut costs. Opposition from the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union's leadership and shop stewards will make it much harder to win approval.

The union stance is revealed in a notice sent to members, which says the AMWU's vehicle division does not support changes detailed in a management explanatory memorandum on 4 December.

The national secretary of the vehicle division, Dave Smith, said on Monday that the union leadership believed the package was "purely about the company attacking unions and their workers", rather than improving productivity and efficiency, or cutting costs.

Smith said he had told several Toyota Australian directors the union was prepared to discuss "ways we can support" the company. "But that has to be a discussion where the parties see each other as equals,” he said. "It gets back to the relationship issue with Toyota and how we can improve the relationship."

The car maker says that it needs to cut the cost of each locally produced car by $3,800 in coming years to compete with Toyota plants in other countries,

On Monday, a Toyota spokeswoman repeated the company's argument that "urgent changes" were needed if the car maker was to remain at the negotiating table for future investments.

"We are doing everything that we can to secure the future for our employees and their families. The changes are designed to remove outdated and uncompetitive work practices and allowances that make it difficult for us to compete with other Toyota plants."

Toyota Australia's relations with car unions have been strained in recent years over forced job cuts and public criticism of work practices and attitudes by its president, Max Yasuda. Car unions wanted the company to negotiate any changes with a big group of shop stewards and delegates. But Toyota has insisted that it would only with a smaller group and has tried communicating directly with individual workers.

From the union side, the decision to formally oppose the management package risks sending a negative signal about the Australian operations to the Japanese parent company, Toyota Motor Corporation. It comes as the broader Australian car industry is fighting for its survival beyond 2016, when Ford will cease manufacturing locally.

A small group of Toyota shop stewards and employees has taken federal court action in an attempt to stop the vote proceedings, in a move which has not yet been officially supported by the union. The judgment is due be handed down before the scheduled vote by Toyota employees on Friday.

The jockeying at Toyota comes as the Abbott government is under intense pressure over whether it will offer further industry assistance to keep GM Holden's Adelaide assembly plant open beyond 2016. The ABC has quoted unnamed senior government ministers as saying a decision has already been made to shut Holden, but the industry minister, Ian Macfarlane, has said the company has assured him that no decision has been made.

Labor’s former industry minister Kim Carr has argued that Holden was willing to accept an ALP proposal which was considered in June and July this year and involved the car industry receiving $300m in taxpayer funding per year for a decade after 2015. Holden would have received about half of that sum, some $150m a year.

ACTU secretary Dave Oliver is seeking an urgent meeting with Tony Abbott about Holden. The South Australian premier, Jay Weatherill, hopes to meet the prime minister on Thursday, when Abbott returns from attending the memorial service in South Africa for Nelson Mandela.

The Wall Street Journal has reported that the US parent of Holden, General Motors, intends to close two Holden plants in Australia. The car maker has its assembly plant in Adelaide, along with an engine plant and corporate headquarters in Melbourne, which employs a total of about 3,660 workers.

The WSJ said that GM would separately slash production in South Korea by as much as 20% by 2016, although part of the South Korea output would be used to feed the Australian market. The measures are in addition a decision last week decision to end Chevrolet sales in Europe in two years.

[Nikked]

Not real sure what to think of these unions...

[gtfpv]

here we go again . a bunch of managers telling employees . they can and will use cheaper labour overseas to compete and seek more profits for shareholders etc .
tell me something new .
corperates chasing profit and nothing else , and blaming its workers crying poor .
these
threads always start with the title " union " , and finish with a thread lock
and indians / koreans and thias / building out cars , corperates and shareholders making more money than before and more austrailans out of work .
PRETTY MUCH WRAPS IT ALL UP .

WAITS FOR THE USUAL SUSPECTS TO SELL US OUT AND AGREE WITH THE CORPS . LOL .

OH , AND BY THE WAY . TROLLS BAG ALL YOU LIKE . NO MO.RE POSTS FROM ME IN THIS THREAD . AND NO I HAVENT READ THE THREAD . I DONT NEED TO . IVE READ HUNDREDS THE SAME .

[GASWAGON]

It really depends on what Toyota wants to change?

If its a $3-5 per hour pay cut then its sort of not on..... Some of the employers may be quite high in debt thanks to Australia high priced RE market and cannot afford a paycut?

Electricty prices through the roof also driving up company running costs.....

It just does'nt work in Oz anymore everything SOOO bloody expensive!

[GQ_Smooth]

Without knowing what the offer is, all we have is uneducated opinions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pottery beige]

unions are a bunch of muppets

[stazza]

Umm didn't Holden do the exact same thing and look where they are now. Holden promised they'd make another model in 2017 or whatever if the workers signed the new agreement. Now they will be shafted. I think regardless of the pay cuts or not, Holden would still close their doors not long after Ford.

I wouldn't fall for their bullshit that taking a pay cut will provide a more stable longterm job.

The unions know whats up, but the usual suspects on here are yes men and would get shafted at the drop of a hat because they think the company wants to look after then.

Know this - no company gives a **** about you. Each and every one of you are expendable.

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by EF_6

It really depends on what Toyota wants to change?

Profits, no profits equals no jobs. Highly unlikely you run your business without making a profit.

Originally Posted by EF_6

If its a $3-5 per hour pay cut then its sort of not on..... Some of the employers may be quite high in debt thanks to Australia high priced RE market and cannot afford a paycut?

Bingo! We have the winner right there...Employees making their living beyond their means the employers problem...

[Wretched]

Even with the threat of total closure there is just no compromising.
You reap what you sow.

[BroadyFord]

I've been reliably informed that even if Holden closes, Toyota will have a "red hot go" at continuing to manufacture. This certainly undermines that.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Bingo! We have the winner right there...Employees making their living beyond their means the employers problem...

It wasn't so long ago that car makers were making significant profits, people could afford housing and could live relatively comfortably.
Fast forward 10 years or so, the cost of living is out of control, we have a property bubble and businesses are struggling to be viable.... These are all signs of an unsustainable economy which is at breaking point. It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by stevz

It wasn't so long ago that car makers were making significant profits, people could afford housing and could live relatively comfortably.
Fast forward 10 years or so, the cost of living is out of control, we have a property bubble and businesses are struggling to be viable.... These are all signs of an unsustainable economy which is at breaking point. It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.

BINGO again!......My bingo is better than yours BadMax!

Honestly i have been taking note of business's around Melbourne and ther are ALOT closed......In Greensborough the other day they spent big bucks doing up the main shopping street strip this year .....

At least for or five shop premisis totally closed within a 500metre strip!

[GASWAGON]

And dont forget Qantas are putting 1000 off next year also and are something like 300 Mill in debt!

[UberKnee]

Ridiculous. These unions continually do the same thing, protecting themselves right now and refusing any give and thus dooming the industry later. Whats the point in protecting your entitlements now if as a result you don't have a job in a couple of years? They need to wake up and realise this big foreign owned corporations and many local owned outfits just cant turn a profit with everything so expensive here.

Huge reform, that is basically impossible needs to happen. People can scream trade embargos all they want and going all redneck and keeping out the evil foreigners but Australia is just to pricey. We'd have to all take paycuts and have every industry, every market drop prices if Australia is any chance to compete in a global market.

[Franco Cozzo]

Meh, we've got no EBA or union representation at work and we're still in the ****, so its not unions that are the problem, if you aren't competing, you aren't competing, and I doubt its wages only. At least everyone in an EBA is on the same rate depending on their qualifications, at our work you can be the laziest person in the workshop but because you negotiated really good when you got hired, you're the highest paid person who does **** all and spends all day in the toilet on facebook, while the guy who busts his *** is on $4 an hour less than you and puts out much more work, or the guy who struggles with English is on not much more than minimum wage even though he has the best work ethic in the place.

Welcome to globalisation, everyone wanted it, what happens is we have our living standards and people in third world countries have theirs, we're all going to meet somewhere in the middle, or we're screwed.

I don't know about you guys but the people who agreed to the entitlement cuts at Holden in SA are probably feeling pretty silly now that they're going to close up anyway, and that they just dicked themselves, on false promises.

I see anti union posts all over the forum but not one person offering to lose their 4 weeks paid annual leave, paid public holidays, paid sick days, 9% superannuation, penalty rates and go onto a lower pay rate.

If we lose those, maybe we aren't such the "lucky country" anymore?

[|||]

better to die on your feet than live on your knees

[Agile]

The FACTS are that the concessions agreed to by the union and workers, for GMH workers, has LAPSED !!!!. Why ? Because GMH have NOT complied with their side of the agreement. Got it !!!! GMH are now operating on the WPA as of prior to September 2013. This IS NOT a union created disaster. This is the Govco ******* this ****ry completely with their fugged global village boooolshit. Got It ?
This will NOT, repeat NOT, be turned around. Car manufacturing in Australia is finished. Thank you to the economic rationalists. Get It ?

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by |||

better to die on your feet than live on your knees

As long as you don't whinge about it while you are dying .
Why do these arguments over who is morally right or wrong keep cropping up ? The facts are there and both sides of the fence tend to agree , labour IS cheaper overseas (as is no doubt building the factory kitting it out ,tooling the list goes on ) , everyone has agreed on that point at least . Anyone can see the facts , you are not going to change them , a labour government couldn't when it was in power , both state and federally all they could do was to offer incentives to attract or keep business . but the line has to be drawn somewhere .
It is up to the workers to decide if they wish to fight or try and make a go of it , only they know what's best for them and in reality unlike the mines where they will bring in scab labour when there is a profit to be made the car industry is at the mercy of every bugger .

[mr smith]

Yup, we missed the GFC coz we were pi$$ed and now we have the hangover.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by Agile

The FACTS are that the concessions agreed to by the union and workers, for GMH workers, has LAPSED !!!!. Why ? Because GMH have NOT complied with their side of the agreement. Got it !!!! GMH are now operating on the WPA as of prior to September 2013. This IS NOT a union created disaster. This is the Govco ******* this ****ry completely with their fugged global village boooolshit. Got It ?
This will NOT, repeat NOT, be turned around. Car manufacturing in Australia is finished. Thank you to the economic rationalists. Get It ?

Finally a realist , albeit with some irrational thinking , but you can't have it all I suppose !

[fte50]

Originally Posted by UberKnee

Ridiculous. These unions continually do the same thing, protecting themselves right now and refusing any give and thus dooming the industry later. Whats the point in protecting your entitlements now if as a result you don't have a job in a couple of years? They need to wake up and realise this big foreign owned corporations and many local owned outfits just cant turn a profit with everything so expensive here.

Huge reform, that is basically impossible needs to happen. People can scream trade embargos all they want and going all redneck and keeping out the evil foreigners but Australia is just to pricey. We'd have to all take paycuts and have every industry, every market drop prices if Australia is any chance to compete in a global market.

I always assumed you were an Aussie living within Australia, but obviously I was wrong.
An Aussie who currently sees the exorbitant costs of day to day living in Australia and just how far (NOT) your money goes would not be talking of blue collar workers and pay cuts in the same sentence.

Without going into the depths of it, some of Toyota's requests amongst others is an initial pay cut, reduction of penalty rates, abolish loading rates, introduction of new labour on lesser rate without opportunity of progressing in pay structure, abolish trade entitlements eg A-Grade license fee etc and the list goes on.

Whilst some bag the unions and our forefathers who maintained their struggle so we can ALL enjoy a more prosperous working life in line with our Australian values, they fail to recognise the employer groups themselves form their own union in a bid to undermine our above value's.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, believe it when I say both Holden & Toyota are within the confines of the AIG, relishing on Fords closure decision, strategically collaborating together, blackmailing the industry and holding it to ransom in order to reduce operational labour costs - Not coz they aren't sustainable in our country as its all relative, but because greedy shareholders want more. Funny though how VIRTUALLY NONE of their suggested cost reducing initiatives involve restructuring for operational efficiencies, but rather an attack on the employees conditions.
I think that's enuff said - Any clearer it would be invisible.

[jamies]

Originally Posted by |||

better to die on your feet than live on your knees

If any of you have ever had a competitive ring fight, it's about the last man standing.. When things get tough survival instincts kick in.. If you believe strongly enough about something stand your ground. I might not agree with unions but others do and I respect that.. This is what makes Australia such a great country we have freedom of speech.

[Bossxr8]

I hate when these articles never tell the full story of what the issue is. Toyota want to change the EBA that only has 16 months to go on it. The EBA contains a clause before it is signed by both the company and the unions that states, "both parties agree there will be no extra claims made during the life of the agreement". But Toyota, like Holden did, want to make extra claims they signed into the agreement that they wouldn't.

Can't they just wait 16 months like they agreed to?

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by fte50

I always assumed you were an Aussie living within Australia, but obviously I was wrong.
An Aussie who currently sees the exorbitant costs of day to day living in Australia and just how far (NOT) your money goes would not be talking of blue collar workers and pay cuts in the same sentence.

Without going into the depths of it, some of Toyota's requests amongst others is an initial pay cut, reduction of penalty rates, abolish loading rates, introduction of new labour on lesser rate without opportunity of progressing in pay structure, abolish trade entitlements eg A-Grade license fee etc and the list goes on.

Whilst some bag the unions and our forefathers who maintained their struggle so we can ALL enjoy a more prosperous working life in line with our Australian values, they fail to recognise the employer groups themselves form their own union in a bid to undermine our above value's.

MAKE NO MISTAKE, believe it when I say both Holden & Toyota are within the confines of the AIG, relishing on Fords closure decision, strategically collaborating together, blackmailing the industry and holding it to ransom in order to reduce operational labour costs - Not coz they aren't sustainable in our country, but because greedy shareholders want more. Funny though how VIRTUALLY NONE of their suggested cost reducing initiatives involve restructuring for operational efficiencies, but rather an attack on the employees conditions.
I think that's enuff said - Any clearer it would be invisible.

Well if you read my full post you'd see I said pay cuts and and lowering the prices of everything. That's why everything is going kaput in Australia, in a more global economy/market like we have now our ridiculous costs/wages make us too expensive. Everything is retardedly expensive here and we require high wages as result making turning a profit here for big companies, especially foreign owned very hard.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I hate when these articles never tell the full story of what the issue is. Toyota want to change the EBA that only has 16 months to go on it. The EBA contains a clause before it is signed by both the company and the unions that states, "both parties agree there will be no extra claims made during the life of the agreement". But Toyota, like Holden did, want to make extra claims they signed into the agreement that they wouldn't.

Can't they just wait 16 months like they agreed to?

Its all to do with the timing of their combined FEAR CAMPAIGN after Fords Closure announcement. It is calculated, deliberate and designed for maximum impact.
At the moment, it seems Holyota combined has more impact than govco.

[zilo]

Simple choice...slightly less pay or zero pay for a very long time.....

I'll take the pay cut, get some breathing room, then look for something else or reinvent myself.

[bullfrog]

Manufacturing in Australia is FARKED. The unions and the Government have seen to that by increasing costs by way of wage entitlements (both wages and superannuation) and worksafe regulations and compliance. In this uncertain economy, it amazes me that employees are asking for more when employers are struggling to stay afloat.

[fte50]

And then the next industry and the next and the next ...... until we are all getting "slightly" less than now but just a bit more than China, and have PERMANANTLY reduced our standard of living for a very long time. Why ?? coz we were scared perhaps ???

When will the continual decline and attack on Australian wages come to a head, because at the end of days there is no point working if your outgoings are greater than incomes.

When will all the apparent chief economists realise if govco and industry is SERIOUS of remaining competitive it has to be through trade policies and NOT our working conditions !

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by fte50

Its all to do with the timing of their combined FEAR CAMPAIGN after Fords Closure announcement. It is calculated, deliberate and designed for maximum impact.
At the moment, it seems Holyota combined has more impact than govco.

FTE50 , while I can see where your coming from as far as working conditions and pay rates being eroded . Ford have already planned for fully imported everything , why would holyota want to be any different .
Perhaps you should come out and say all we are trying to do is protect the current rate of pay and conditions for the workers involved so they have a better chance of getting on with their lives in X amount of time .
I am quite sure that even the most ardent anti-unionist couldn't argue with that ?

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by fte50

And then the next industry and the next and the next ...... until we are all getting "slightly" less than now but just a bit more than China, and have PERMANANTLY reduced our standard of living for a very long time. Why ?? coz we were scared perhaps ???

When will the continual decline and attack on Australian wages come to a head, because at the end of days there is no point working if your outgoings are greater than incomes.

When will all the apparent chief economists realise if govco and industry is SERIOUS of remaining competitive it has to be through trade policies and NOT our working conditions !

Now your talking bilateral appealing to everyone , all you have to do is find a political party with the guts to do it !