The 6-Speed Showdown - Manual vs ZF Auto

[Falcon Coupe]

I didn't realise an auto restricts the exhaust.

[data_mine]

Speaking of exhaust and ZF's. Since I got my exhaust done (Tuesday), I've been playing with rev matching between shifts. YES it can be done. Takes some timing and practice. But you can get a satisfying throttle blip and matched revs on downshifts, and a wheel spin between gears on upshifts with a quick right foot action.

So nah nah to manual owners. Us ZF owners have it all

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I didn't realise an auto restricts the exhaust.

No but I agree with NZTS50.

There is a point in between the auto changing gears that sounds like crap. I dont know what the term is, but the is a slight lag. And if you have a loudish exhaust note you can hear it.

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by data_mine

Speaking of exhaust and ZF's. Since I got my exhaust done (Tuesday), I've been playing with rev matching between shifts. YES it can be done. Takes some timing and practice. But you can get a satisfying throttle blip and matched revs on downshifts, and a wheel spin between gears on upshifts with a quick right foot action.

So nah nah to manual owners. Us ZF owners have it all

LMAO! I'm sure it can be done with the ZF. I could do it in my RSK-B4 tiptronic, it's not hard and definitely no comparison to driving a manual and rev matching. I gave up doing it in my Subaru because I felt like a bit of a knob when I had friends in the car. I basically told myself, it's not a manual it's an auto, don't waste my time. Yupe, you guys have it all.







.........Except the clutch pedal aka skill/man pedal. : :evilsasmo

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I didn't realise an auto restricts the exhaust.

I think you read that wrong..... : I can't see anywhere where I said it restricts exhaust, I didn't even mention exhaust. But as Polyal pointed out, when you do get an exhaust this slop between gears is more obvious. Instead of people drooling and not knowing what trans it has due to the exhuast being quiet or stock, the old phrase will come out: "Nice Ford!, V8, GT-P? Black........and......Oh. It's an auto" or "Poo, an auto".

Hearing a manual 8 take off is what gets people going. Hearing the car take off in 1st then the nice rumble-backfire between gear into 2nd then double clutch quickly into 3rd for a bit of show boating, awesome. I love my TS50 and nothing against auto owners, TS/E50 owners especially but I couldn't imagine driving anything but a manual. The car sounds like a bathurst car, the famous Windsor roar and having that change by itself and slop between gears would not be fun at all IMO. I love going out for drives after watching V8 Supercars on TV. The in-car shots of them changing gears makes me itch for a drive, I wouldn't be as excited going out to put the car into [D] and just sit there, I like driving the car around corners and long straights going up & down the gears just like the in-car shots. Makes me feel at one with the car and is just plain fun. I guess there are 3 kinds of people. Auto drivers, Manual drivers and people who can't drive.

Though, I'm still keen to test drive the ZF to see what all the fuss is about.
I know for a fact I won't enjoy it, but, I may like the way it drives but autos are autos. Doesn't matter how many gears or how quick it reacts, it is still an auto, two pedals, no true driving pleasure.

[Falcon Coupe]

What a crock, you may believe what you write but don't try and make out like it's gospel.

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

I think you read that wrong..... : I can't see anywhere where I said it restricts exhaust, I didn't even mention exhaust.

Well what sound are you talking about ? the sound of a gearbox shifting ?
Like a badd *** powershift sound ? e

Originally Posted by '[ NZTS50

'People seem to forget too that Autos sound like crap unless they are purebred track cars, shift kits, high stalls race bands etc.....even then it still sounds plops. Hear a manual on the street, track or where-ever and it sounds soooooooo much better. Going through gears, no lagging slop sound between gears.......

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Polyal

No but I agree with NZTS50.

There is a point in between the auto changing gears that sounds like crap. I dont know what the term is, but the is a slight lag. And if you have a loudish exhaust note you can hear it.

I dont get what you mean?
Go to the drags and listen to the auto's and manuals racing,you will hear a lot more "lag" as you call it between the shifts of a synchro manual than an auto.

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

What a crock, you may believe what you write but don't try and make out like it's gospel.

Well what sound are you talking about ? the sound of a gearbox shifting ?
Like a badd ar$e powershift sound ? e

No need to get in a twist, yes, like all auto boxes the sound between gears when it changes it's ugly IMO. Power-shifting? Bad ****? : I never said "bad ar$e power-shifting" mate so you can make up all you want. If you think power-shifting is "bad ar$e" that's nice. It's just a shift, look at Firefox, he uses it well and says without shifting during track events you can lose 20 seconds a race, hence the reason he does well at the track compared to other TS50 drivers who speed shift. Gospel? LOL Your words mate not mine. If you read into it as gospel that's your problem, it's opinion like every post on any board. Look, I'm not here to talk big on a board, you have your thoughts on the gear boxes, so do I. Who's to say who's right and who's wrong? No one.

If you want to moan and bltch about the smallest things on the planet and start picking a fight on pointless matters feel free to PM me and we can talk about anything you like.


BTT ................

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by '[ NZTS50

yes, like all auto boxes the sound between gears when it changes it's ugly IMO. Power-shifting? Bad ****?

What sound is this?
Dosent the engine make all sound,how does the gearbox affect this?
Unless you mean the sound that comes from those that cant drive,so when they change gears they lift the throttle before they depress the clutch and so get the compression braking sound..

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by nugget378

I dont get what you mean?
Go to the drags and listen to the auto's and manuals racing,you will hear a lot more "lag" as you call it between the shifts of a synchro manual than an auto.

I agree, but those are worked autos at WOT. I mean driving around normally on the streets. Some sound awesome but only under full throttle where-as manuals sound sporty at any speed or rpm. But I do agree worked autos especially the C4, 727 and Powerglide variety are great transmissions.

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by nugget378

What sound is this?
Dosent the engine make all sound,how does the gearbox affect this?
Unless you mean the sound that comes from those that cant drive,so when they change gears they lift the throttle before they depress the clutch and so get the compression braking sound..

The torque converter is what effects the sound I'm guessing. That or the bands. Not sure what it is but if you have to ask what sound it is? Listen to the Honda "racers" or what-not have auto boxes, it's easier to hear it drop. It's the rpm drop. You can make a manual make any sound you like, good or bad driving you can basically make it sing if you want, hence the reason I like them...more fun and things to do IMO.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

The torque converter is what effects the sound I'm guessing. That or the bands. Not sure what it is but if you have to ask what sound it is? Listen to the Honda "racers" or what-not have auto boxes, it's easier to hear it drop. It's the rpm drop. You can make a manual make any sound you like, good or bad driving you can basically make it sing if you want, hence the reason I like them...more fun and things to do IMO.

Ummm?WTF?
Honda racers and torque convertors?
Any box has an rpm drop some less than others,the ZF 6spd will have less rpm drop than a 5spd manual thats for sure..

[data_mine]

You mean the sound of a flat shift? (no RPM drop)

Do you do that every day, every shift?

[nugget378]

Even flat shifting will have an rpm drop,the simple fact of going into a higher gear will have to drop rpm's

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Ummm?WTF?
Honda racers and torque convertors?
Any box has an rpm drop some less than others,the ZF 6spd will have less rpm drop than a 5spd auto thats for sure..

You guys like making nothing into something eh..... _

I said, "The torque converter is what effects the sound I'm guessing" not in the same sentence as Honda's as you're trying to make out. I said Honda's because you can hear their whiny rpm drop easier through the fart can. Yes, any automatic has the drop, that's my point.

BTT....

[Night Runner]

Nope not every day every shift.....of course not. If you guys have to ask the difference in what an auto sounds like vs a manual there is no point in trying to explain it. You know the sound or you don't. I sure as hell know the difference. Of course there will always be a drop but no where as much in a manual and it sounds totally different. If there were no rpm drops we'd all have 1 speed automatics.

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

You guys like making nothing into something eh..... _

I said, "The torque converter is what effects the sound I'm guessing" not in the same sentence as Honda's as you're trying to make out. I said Honda's because you can hear their whiny rpm drop easier through the fart can. Yes, any automatic has the drop, that's my point.

BTT....

No mate,just like things to make sense,what was posted before made no sense at all,rpm drop is because of gearing,not whether manual or auto.
would a 3 on the tree manual in an old kingswood have less rpm drop than a 5 or 6 spd auto?
I dont think so..
As the Lady once said,please explain..

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by nugget378

No mate,just like things to make sense,what was posted above made no sense at all,rpm drop is because of gearing,not whether manual or auto.
would a 3 on the tree manual in an old kingswood have less rpm drop than a 5 or 6 spd auto?
I dont think so..
As the Lady once said,please explain..

I have no idea why their is a difference but like I have already said. There is no point trying to explain the difference in the sounds. It's there for all ears to hear. I feel some auto owners just don't want to acknowledge the fact. All my auto cars had it and mine does now. Listen to any automatic car at normal driving speeds and it's obvious. IMO it sounds sluggish and sloppy. Guess that's why many refer to them as slushboxes, that and because the old autos especially take so much hp away from the rear wheel figure. It is there, so, I'm I taking it you can't tell the difference between a XR8 auto and an XR8 manual going past? I think it's just the entire gear change vs the two boxes. Manuals sound better going through gears IMO and a lot of other peoples opinions. I'm biased towards manuals but I still own autos, have 2, performance and one stock

[data_mine]

If anything a torque converter auto can have LESS of an RPM drop than a manual (assuming gear ratios are identical), as the TC can 'absorb' some of the extra RPM - alternatively you'd let the clutch slip some.

Mr. TS50, I'm afraid you're not making sense. Surely an example can be sourced.

[Night Runner]

Originally Posted by data_mine

If anything a torque converter auto can have LESS of an RPM drop than a manual (assuming gear ratios are identical), as the TC can 'absorb' some of the extra RPM - alternatively you'd let the clutch slip some.

Mr. TS50, I'm afraid you're not making sense. Surely an example can be sourced.

See my post above yours.....I'm not going to explain the differences between auto gear boxes and manual boxes, sounds. Feel free to Google it. Manuals IMO sound better, thought there would be more Manual men on this board who would voice the same opinion......automatics being the preferred choice on a Ford forum? Who would have thought the day would come...... :(

[Night Runner]

OK...for those that can't tell the difference here are some videos.
In your opinion, which one do you think sounds better between gears...... :

No contest - Manual

Manual - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn-Uz1tZoP8

Auto - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8hsN1WJIKU


As if videos and 5 minutes will make you know the difference, you either know or you don't.
But they're cool videos and there is nothing anyone can pick and twist their panties too or moan about.

Cheers!

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by [ NZTS50 ]

I have no idea why their is a difference but like I have already said. There is no point trying to explain the difference in the sounds. It's there for all ears to hear. I feel some auto owners just don't want to acknowledge the fact. All my auto cars had it and mine does now. Listen to any automatic car at normal driving speeds and it's obvious. IMO it sounds sluggish and sloppy. Guess that's why many refer to them as slushboxes, that and because the old autos especially take so much hp away from the rear wheel figure. It is there, so, I'm I taking it you can't tell the difference between a XR8 auto and an XR8 manual going past? I think it's just the entire gear change vs the two boxes. Manuals sound better going through gears IMO and a lot of other peoples opinions. I'm biased towards manuals but I still own autos, have 2, performance and one stock

geez you assume alot.
FYI my cars are manuals,and I race them hard,hard enough that ive blown up a TKO600 twice and stuffed synchro's another time.
The engine makes the sound thats it,gearboxes dont make any noise of note.
A high stall auto will always be on the convertor at WOT and will never drop below those revs.
Ive never been much on sounds anyway,thats the bastion of ricers IMO,I prefer performance..

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by '[ NZTS50

'....automatics being the preferred choice on a Ford forum? Who would have thought the day would come...... :(

Have you driven a 6 speed auto?
I have followed 10 pages of mostly your thoughts and assumptions, you find it hard to get a grip that people mostly prefer the auto, time to move on, nothing new in this thread except the same argument that you lost for the last 10 pages ago.

[Night Runner]

Nope, haven't driven the 6-speed automatic. This whole thread is "thoughts and assumptions" mate, it's a forum. I don't see I have lost an argument, all I see is a poll tampered with (by some sissy), so no result can be taken. "Lost" : Yupe......I'm the real loser here because I prefer manuals....... : On that note time for a drive......lock the thread if you want it turned into a manual vs auto debate a while back. Opinion vs opinion will never go far.

ZF sounds great and I will take a test drive soon enough...not in any hurry.
Well done to Ford for giving us two great transmissions.

Sounds? I'll take both performance and sound. If I didn't like sounds I wouldn't be a fan of V8's either. Sound is a lot to me. Looks, sound & performance is a must and I won't own anything that hasn't got all three (and then some).

Cheers!!!! ;)

[Sourbastard]

Hear that? Listen closely! Its the sound of me closing another pointless thread.