Finding a dodgy lifter.?

[Stav]

Any suggestions gentlemen? I gave the wagon 6500 rpm today and one lifter seems to get rattly when I fang it so am taking it easy. How do we find a bad lifter?

[THORNSPAWN]

You need to remove the rocker cover. A dodgy lifter is usually soft\spongy and will have some movement when you press down on the rocker, the valve needs to be closed when you do this.

[gtfpv]

you can idle the engine with rocker cover off . carefully place your finger on top of every rocker you can sometimes feel it .

[jonbays]

Stav get a big long screwdriver and stick it in your ear!

Yes thats right.

The handle end goes in your ear though.

Now the blade end stick it on the extractors port by port and listen.

Then the inlet manifold thats a bit harder as everything is in the way but you will find the dud lifter or get a headache depending on which end of the screwdriver you use

[FS5]

on a bit of a side note,what about going to solid lifters?
6500rpm is certainly giving it some

[NeishaXR8_347]

Originally Posted by FS5

on a bit of a side note,what about going to solid lifters?
6500rpm is certainly giving it some

No need the guys with their EA's are pulling 6000rpm plus and no problems.

As has been said the dud lifter will be spongy and should be noticable.

[Stav]

Its not the lifters. I changed the whole lot including rockers. The problem reappeared.

The car idles well.The car goes well. However most notably on deceleration a loud clapping sound like a siezed lifter is happening.Light easy revving is fine.If I crack the throttle open it sounds up again .
I am thinking its the timing belt tensioner or guides or timing belt itself. There is siginificant oil coming from the block where the tensioner is.It is very annoying and it sounds like its getting ready for bung but keeps plodding on. I thought it was pinging but the spark plugs show now sign at all of this. I am banking on the timng chain or guides. If it was a piston it would be nosuiy all the time.if it were the ringss then the car would not be going so well. I am getting a bit over this .Seems every time I get this running like a dream something else goes wrong. 166.2 rwkws and then this happens. I am going to remove the tensioner and have a look tommorow after kids soccer.

[au2sw]

once again, engine running, bonnet up, long screw driver in ear (or see if you can borrow a mechianics "stethoscope") and listen to each pulley. good pulley bearings have a dull hum, buggered ones will have a grinding type noise to them. also do this on the individual inlet and exhaust ports, it may be a valve problem?

[Stav]

I was thinking a valve problem too.The springs are all fine.There are no weak or visibly problematic valves.Idle is good.The car still has power. I was thinking valve bounce but how can this be on a new head with the latest and greatest springs? Something is losing contact with a few revs. I am hoping its just the tensioners or even the pulleys seemed to cross my mind. I got my engine stethoscope out and listened for the noise an hour ago. It was quiet towards the back and noisy towards the front of the engine close to number one cylinder. Its sounds mostly when I release the accelerator or when i travel say at 80 kays then touch the trhottle 1/8 of the way.When I release it sounds like three more hits on average then goes quiet again?
Tommorow I am doing a compression test as well.

[private9]

May as well get that 750rwkw build started!

[Stav]

Hmm ..I am thinking its the water pump.I bought a drive belt a little while back and occasionally would get a phantom clanking sound. The belt itself seemed unusually short.Even though we have self tensioning pulleys I cant help but think that this noise is a water pump which has flexxed enough to hit its vanes inside against the block.The problem seem worse when the car warms up and at certain rpm. I feel that if it was a rocker or lifter problem it would now be fixed with the second set I have. If the oil pump was going again ..the oil light would be on and it is not. The timing chani tension was good when I changed the lifter assembly. I had come across a post by Nudge who also in his travels came across and overly tight drive pully belt. Iam leanning towards this but it is a process of elimination.

[Stav]

Not the water pump.Removrd the drive belt.Still makes the sound with revs.It sounds like the timing chain.Incidentally it was cold this morning and the car absolutely hammers..just for this dam sound.

[jonbays]

If its noticeable as the load comes off the engine and its slowing slightly but not slowing fast then timing chain may be worth looking at. or tensioner!

[jonbays]

I had one where i would get a rat tat tat noise for a second every time i changed gears it was the tensioner it got grabbed by a loose chain and bent and jammed stuck in its body.

[jonbays]

This wasn't a falcon six though! A yamaha XJ650!

[Stav]

Originally Posted by jonbays

If its noticeable as the load comes off the engine and its slowing slightly but not slowing fast then timing chain may be worth looking at. or tensioner!

Thats exactly what it is.Exactly.Coming off hard seems to have no noise.

[Stav]

Ive just come back from more stethoscoping around.The engine noise is definately coming from number 1 cylinder or the timing chain or assembly.It could be a rod or something..or timing chain.

[jonbays]

Well then it sounds more like a chain somwhere oil pump or timing chain could do it though!

Not much like a lifter noise which is prety constant more noticeable at idel or just above.

I had one of my lifters stick in the bore so when it started up it idled bad for a second then it tried to punch a donut right through the shims cracking one in half. The two halves styed put for a few weeks untill the engine stopped in the right spot agin and then they fell apart and i got the tat tat tat at idle prob with shitty idle again. This is the prob with too many shims i have the std shim and three washers! they mostly all stick together with the oilf film but if they jiggle apart they get slammed and brak or crush too easily. Thos lifters do get a hard time

[FS5]

stav a new tensioner is only about 20 bucks. might be worth getting one.its a pain in the ar$e job changing them though.

[Stav]

40 minutes and pulled old tensioner out and it looks fine.Put it back in and unlocked bolted back up and the noise is still there? I tested compression and it was good.Checked the headbolts..some werent very tight..I torqued them down a tad. Still has the noise. I was so looking forward to melbourne drags but in this state the car is not trustable to go that far.

When it happens it sounds like something in the cylinder but doesnt happen all the time. I think id better get ready for another engine.Could it be a rod or piston ? Has anyone heard these symptoms before?

[Stav]

Well finally found out where the problem is.After much research i have discovered that removing the plugs one by one and if the noise reduces then thats the faulty cylinder.So as I suspected number one cylinder is cactus.Removing that plug eliminated 99 % of the noise. I have to get another block and fit a head to it. I hope the head is ok thats on there.. I have a feeling that engine knock may be responsible but that car was never intended for 66% more power so its water off a ducks back.

[THORNSPAWN]

Piston Slap(tm)

[Stav]

How far can I go with piston slap?

[THORNSPAWN]

If it is a loose piston it will gradually get worse and it will also damage the bore.

[Whoosha]

the REDAU 347 stroker dudes motor had the same noise till it lifted the top of a corner of one piston then it just missed a little on idle we know how that ended.. good luck with it Stav hope its not too costly :

[Stav]

Originally Posted by Whoosha

the REDAU 347 stroker dudes motor had the same noise till it lifted the top of a corner of one piston then it just missed a little on idle we know how that ended.. good luck with it Stav hope its not too costly :

How did that end? The car with easy driving sounds like it could go for a few more weeks.Anything over 2800 rpm is not good territory but ironically it gets quieter. I am going to try and source another engine next week or may try to source a recoed bottom end with heavy duty parts. It is strange this journey of mine. I used to just drive cars until they would stop.The only mod done was engine oil changes.These cars went forever. Whatever it costs it costs what can I do? I have to confess that these past few weeks have been the most enjoyable with the wagon going sooo well. Even if it ends..gee it was great..I just seem to have a void though....this car is a low 14 second car as is and I am very tempted to take it down the qurter mile with its broken rod because I believe if it does not blow up it will run a fantastic time!!

lol :

[JC]

Originally Posted by Stav

Finding a dodgy lifter

I would look in Stav's engine - bound to find one, lol.

[Stav]

heheh JC its all happening in that engine.. Its a funny thing. Even though my diagnosis is terminal for the wagon I drove the thing 50 kays tonight lightfooted and it did not skip a beat. This problem is like cancer to a car.It drives fine..it hammers actually,it uses little fuel,yet on the odd occassion it will tap away.Not a severe bang bang bang but a tap tap tap. The deepseated instinct in me is just drive it into the ground until it stops. Compression is excellent.Not a ticking lifter in sight..this is in perfect condition...heheh.

[Stav]

It seems that a slight coolant loss and undertightened head bolts have allowed a little fluid into cylinder number one.With myself givving the car a canning would have created hydrolck in the cylinder causing the rod to bend slighlty.With the compression so good this engine might last for years but well see.Provided the engine keeps going and is not too bad with revs it should keep going.