WS Fiesta - Long-term Review Part 3 of 3

Ms_Jam · 01-12-2011, 12:47 PM

Problems
I can’t fault the build. No rattles, bumps other noises. The warranty work has been minor - a rubber door seal that had lifted slightly, and some adjustment to the steering, at the dealer’s initiative, for a problem I had not noticed myself. And there was an electrical fault in the line to the light inside my gear stick.

There have been a couple of minor annoyances. The air-conditioning in my WS Fiesta at any rate, seems to have been designed for European climates. It is quite livable in summer, however, if you use a large shade on the windscreen when it is parked in the sun, and start up the air-conditioning with the recycle setting (remembering to change it to fresh air after 20 minutes or so). As you would expect, the heating in winter is superb. Another annoyance is that the side mirrors on my Fiesta appear to have been installed for a left-hand drive model.

If I had the time over again, the only things I would have done differently would have been to have an alignment much earlier than 15,000 km, and rotate the tires more than only once in 30,000 km. And of course to be more careful with the tyres when parking.

Next?
I am seriously considering keeping this car for the long haul (part of the reason for my decision to use fully synthetic for the transmission). I was not to know it at the time, but my manual Fiesta Zetec has turned out to represent impressive good value, even though I paid a little more for it than the current WTs are going for. On the other hand, the current models have economised on some of the more subtle features, and mine was made in Germany.

I could be interested in the new sports model due here maybe next year. I have a suspicion I will be in a phone-box minority in saying this, but I am not sold on the idea of a turbo, especially if it turns out to be a 1.4 rather than 1.6 litre. I have a problem with turbo lag, just in terms of responsiveness, and I do not feel 1.4 litres is enough in serious city driving to be comfortable without a VW-like supercharger. I’m probably a minority of one, but what I modestly think would bring the Fiesta better to the really hot hatch category would be a 2 litre, naturally aspirated engine - in other words a direct competitor to the Renault Clio sports (which I must say I would be interested in, if I had the money to spare).

OK, what would I know? But a while ago, a friend sent me a video interview with the chief engineer of Porsche, at the launch of a limited edition 4 litre naturally aspirated 911. One phrase of his stuck in my mind for some reason, “There is no replacement for displacement”.

Footnote
In writing this, I rechecked the Castrol website. It now recommends Castrol Edge only if Magnatec is unavailable. I am puzzled by this. I have kept a copy of Castrol’s web page from when I first considered using Castrol Edge, and back then it suggested both as alternatives. I can’t think why they now have this odd wording. Could it be that some people were putting Castrol Edge into brand new engines? Or could it be that Ford does not want fully synthetic to be actively marketed for their non-premium vehicles?

kevino · 01-12-2011, 06:55 PM

You should get a job with Wheels magazine. A thorough and most interesting review.

Tell me though what rpm is it doing at 110km/hr on the freeway and how noisy is it at this speed.

caprispecial · 01-12-2011, 07:26 PM

Ms Jam that was a good read. Its refreshing to read an article by someone that really loves their car. I have the wt fiesta and i am very happy with it also.
The fiesta is truly a very competent little car. Cheers,...Ron.

OZXR4 · 01-12-2011, 08:14 PM

If you want the 2.0l in a fiesta then buy a second hand XR4. The new one will have 30BHP more than the old one. If I was not saving for a house, I would be lining up for the new one and trade in my old one.

Fiesta_Man69 · 02-12-2011, 10:25 AM

Hmm, we don't work for Ford now do we? I thought I was reading the sales brochure....

Ms_Jam · 02-12-2011, 10:34 AM

No connection with Ford at all. No connection with the auto industry, or suppliers or wholesalers or retailers. Think that covers it!

Just my own thoughts on my own experience. I'm a very happy camper with this car.

Feel free to disagree. Your mileage may vary, as they say.

In Focus · 02-12-2011, 10:44 AM

I have to say a review like this is far more valuable than a motoring journalists' one week - or even one hour - test. I'd like to see how the journalists rate their beloved VW's when they've had one for a year or two

brydie76 · 02-12-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Hmm, we don't work for Ford now do we? I thought I was reading the sales brochure....

And do you work for Holden? Every time I read one of your posts it's like listening to one of those "born again fan" dealers. You know, the "I had one of these, but man it was bad. You know what's good? This Barina spark over here!!!" type.

vhcbm · 02-12-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZXR4

If you want the 2.0l in a fiesta then buy a second hand XR4. The new one will have 30BHP more than the old one. If I was not saving for a house, I would be lining up for the new one and trade in my old one.

'

I know a good one for sale if anyone wants one...

Great review.

Fi.ES.TA · 02-12-2011, 09:12 PM

Not posted in ages so i will continue the thread.
I have posted a review of my car ages ago and there was only one concern and that was with my drivers window would go up all the way and come back down on its own but that was sorted and no longer does it.

2010 german built WS fiesta owned from new and to date i can not fault the car,its been a dream to drive.Im just hitting 96,000klm and i do 120klm a day 5 days a week and i have driven it really hard and still in love with the car.

Heres to another 96,000klm ;)

vhcbm · 02-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fi.ES.TA

Not posted in ages so i will continue the thread.
I have posted a review of my car ages ago and there was only one concern and that was with my drivers window would go up all the way and come back down on its own but that was sorted and no longer does it.

2010 german built WS fiesta owned from new and to date i can not fault the car,its been a dream to drive.Im just hitting 96,000klm and i do 120klm a day 5 days a week and i have driven it really hard and still in love with the car.

Heres to another 96,000klm ;)

My drivers window won't go up automatically :/ no biggie for now as it can wait till the next service.

Hope mine gets to 96000

Franco Cozzo · 02-12-2011, 11:19 PM

Interested in how you got the synthetic gear oil into the gearbox for your Fiesta? My mechanic said there was no fill hole for it, so it went in my Focus instead.

Ms_Jam · 05-12-2011, 02:34 PM

Thanks for all the comments, postive and negative. Some replies:

Rpm at 110 km (Kelvino)
Thanks for your very kind words.

Going to Flinders on the weekend, it was around 3100-3200 rpm at 110 km. I don't really notice extra noise. The funny thing is that when the car was new, extra noise was quite noticeable. Maybe the engine has just loosened up.

The other interesting thing is that when the car was new, I had to change down on steep hills. Now I don't, except in the rare situation where I have to go slow.

Journos' beloved VWs? (In Focus)
That's a very interesting point indeed. I have personal knowledge of a $70,000 new VW that caused its owners endless grief.

Could it be that the VWs "demo" well, and that gets in the journos?

I was reading something a while ago about Steve Jobs, which said he put extraordinary effort into ensuring that Apple's products demoed well. So a lot of interesting prototypes never made it to market, because they failed Steve's demo test.

It seems to me that VW has understood their target market extremely well, viz. the highly aspirational types (in polite language). VW knows what impresses them. I have heard that a sales tactic is to lift the lid to show a potential customer some parts in the engine bay with "AUDI" written in big letters on them!

Born Again Fan? (brydie76)
I am just very happy with my Fiesta. For the money of course. That goes without saying. If I had the means, I probably would be driving around the city in an Abarth Tributo Ferrari, and have a Range Rover Autobiography to use elsewhere.

On Holdens, my sister had an Astra. Six months out of warranty, the engine committed hari kari, and seemed to eat up is own giblets! Cost her a lot to get going again.

Getting transmission oil in (Big Damo)
As I undertand it, the Fiesta does not have a drainage hole in the bottom. The old oil has to be sucked out of the top (don't ask me where that is). I'm told this design is like that of a boat engine (but I have never seen a boat engine up close).

Anyway, if you don't have a suitable pump, getting the old oil from the top out is a slow pain, or so I hear. So some mechanics might not be keen to do it.

brydie76 · 06-12-2011, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ms_Jam

Born Again Fan? (brydie76)
I am just very happy with my Fiesta. For the money of course. That goes without saying. If I had the means, I probably would be driving around the city in an Abarth Tributo Ferrari, and have a Range Rover Autobiography to use elsewhere.

On Holdens, my sister had an Astra. Six months out of warranty, the engine committed hari kari, and seemed to eat up is own giblets! Cost her a lot to get going again.

Sorry! My comment was aimed at the eternal pessimist, Fiestaman69 (or whoever), not at you! I am like you too, loving my Fiesta especially given what I paid for it- even if I had twice the budget I did for the car, I probably still would have gotten one, I love how cool they look haha! I'm fairly early into my ownership (only just hit 2 months and 2,000 kms!) but so far loving it. I have had a few small issues (reverse gear can be hard to get into at times), but otherwise loving it (and expecting the issues I have to get better over time as the car is "broken in"). Cannot wait for its first proper service when I can get some decent oil into it- I get the feeling the current oil, whilst still fine, could be better. My poor little WS was unwanted and sat around at the dealership for months before I bought it- lucky for me I guess haha!

Fiesta_Man69 · 06-12-2011, 09:50 AM

Brydie, I suggest you read the thread "WS Fiesta -Alternative Long Term review.

brydie76 · 06-12-2011, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Brydie, I suggest you read the thread "WS Fiesta -Alternative Long Term review.

I have, and I have read many of your posts on here before choosing to get my Fiesta. I fully acknowledge that you have had problems with your car, but the way you post about them and hence come across on the forums in general does not help your case (which I'm assuming is to try and warn people about the potential issues) IMO. If you were able to come across in a more balanced way (ie "Be warned- I had a bad experience, but others have had good ones. Just presenting a balanced opinion") as opposed to how you present it now ("I had a nightmare of an experience, and you probably will too. Don't try it") would be a more effective way of saying things. Long story short, I really didn't heed any warning from your posts- I saw them as excessively wringing and stretching one example beyond its useful life. Hence why I had no qualms buying my Fiesta. And I am so happy I did.

Spinner77 · 06-12-2011, 09:15 PM

Very eloquently put, brydie76.

You have expressed my feelings exactly.

I would also suggest more generally that when you have a problem with a major corporation, the best approach may not be through a megaphone. The best approach is more likely to be to appeal to their sense of fairness, without publicly trashing their brand or product.

Otherwise I think you can provoke them into simply complying with the letter of the law, even if it costs them more than a replacement would (e.g. by doing endless repairs).

Fiesta_Man69 · 06-12-2011, 11:31 PM

If you indeed read my thread, Brydie, you would have read the section where I state: "However, I have no doubt that 90-95% of Fiestas are built fine and will have no issues throughout their life. My review should be taken with a grain of salt and used in balance with other 'glowing' reviews of the car." According to you this is not providing a 'balanced' opinion. This I do not understand. On numerous occasions I have made it clear that I am aware that most Fiestas will have no problems. The issue is not with the Fiesta itself. It is with Ford Australia: if you do not have a problem with your car, which I hope you never will - and as I have said many times before probably won't - you will not have to experience their utter contempt for their customers. Indeed, I hope all Fiesta customers have Ms Jam's experience and not mine - I wouldn't want another person going through what I've been through. That is the issue. That is why I have directed people to the 'Focus Lemon Help!' thread as the issue is not with one specific model of Ford but with Ford's archaic customer 'service' system.

I first joined the forum to see if there were any solutions to lowering the WS front headrests all the way down on to the seat. Only when I joined I noticed that over half of the threads on the first page at that time were members who were having issues with their Fiesta. Including pinging engines: which I had been told by Ford CRC was an isolated incident localised to my car only (but also a 'characteristic' of the car, so go figure). So I kept reading through the threads, realising that mine wasn't the only lemon Fiesta as well as realising that Ford CRC had no problems outright lying to their customers. Again, if you've never had a problem with your Ford, you haven't experienced this, and I hope you never do.

People are intelligent. They will read most threads and use their own good judgement to make up their minds. By providing differing opinions people can read Ms Jams and my own experiences and make up their own mind, knowing full well that they have a 95% chance of getting a great car but if something goes wrong then they are well and truly stuffed.

And Spinner77 - Ford's 'sense of fairness' is to mock all other independent workshops (including ones that build drag engines), say they don't know what they're talking about and only Ford's mechanics with Ford's diagnostic equipment can diagnose a problem with a Ford vehicle. They disregard all written mechanical reports that are indepedent and state that any fault you have with the car is a 'characteristic' of the vehicle. Including rust. Make of that what you will.

And Spinner, sometimes you need a megaphone to crash through a brick wall.

Mercury 8 · 06-12-2011, 11:47 PM

Give it up mate,you spam every thread with your story.Sell it and move on.The amount of grief you keep raving on about is not healthy.A smart person would sell and move on.................

Fiesta_Man69 · 06-12-2011, 11:52 PM

It's on a fully maintained, novated lease, salary scarifice over 4 years. To exit such a lease early, especially within 3 years, is prohibitively expensive - the buyout figure isn't worth it. True - my fault, I should have looked into having to buy out a car less than 2 years old becuase of problems, but I was stupid and naive and thought that a warranty from Ford meant something and that I wouldn't need to exit the lease early. If I had bought it with cash - as was the plan originally before I did my sums - I would have sold it months ago, taken the loss, and gone to another brand, of course.

brydie76 · 07-12-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

If you indeed read my thread, Brydie, you would have read the section where I state: "However, I have no doubt that 90-95% of Fiestas are built fine and will have no issues throughout their life. My review should be taken with a grain of salt and used in balance with other 'glowing' reviews of the car." According to you this is not providing a 'balanced' opinion. This I do not understand. On numerous occasions I have made it clear that I am aware that most Fiestas will have no problems. The issue is not with the Fiesta itself. It is with Ford Australia: if you do not have a problem with your car, which I hope you never will - and as I have said many times before probably won't - you will not have to experience their utter contempt for their customers. Indeed, I hope all Fiesta customers have Ms Jam's experience and not mine - I wouldn't want another person going through what I've been through. That is the issue. That is why I have directed people to the 'Focus Lemon Help!' thread as the issue is not with one specific model of Ford but with Ford's archaic customer 'service' system.

I first joined the forum to see if there were any solutions to lowering the WS front headrests all the way down on to the seat. Only when I joined I noticed that over half of the threads on the first page at that time were members who were having issues with their Fiesta. Including pinging engines: which I had been told by Ford CRC was an isolated incident localised to my car only (but also a 'characteristic' of the car, so go figure). So I kept reading through the threads, realising that mine wasn't the only lemon Fiesta as well as realising that Ford CRC had no problems outright lying to their customers. Again, if you've never had a problem with your Ford, you haven't experienced this, and I hope you never do.

People are intelligent. They will read most threads and use their own good judgement to make up their minds. By providing differing opinions people can read Ms Jams and my own experiences and make up their own mind, knowing full well that they have a 95% chance of getting a great car but if something goes wrong then they are well and truly stuffed.

And Spinner77 - Ford's 'sense of fairness' is to mock all other independent workshops (including ones that build drag engines), say they don't know what they're talking about and only Ford's mechanics with Ford's diagnostic equipment can diagnose a problem with a Ford vehicle. They disregard all written mechanical reports that are indepedent and state that any fault you have with the car is a 'characteristic' of the vehicle. Including rust. Make of that what you will.

And Spinner, sometimes you need a megaphone to crash through a brick wall.

I have bolder the 2 main areas that have issues with it. Yes, you write disclaimers that aim to provide a balanced opinion, but your use of quotation marks in select areas discounts certain words (I only highlighted the first eg I found, but "balanced", "glowing", etc are all in there). It may not be your intention, and just a characteristic (no pun intended) of your writing style, but this can almost be seen as mocking the adjectives/terminologies used by others- primarily due to its use in verbal speech, with the "double quotation marks in the air" gesture people use. And when you use those quotation in the same paragraph/post as you use them around "service" (which is clearly meant to be mocking), it doesn't help the tone.

Secondly, your present certain things which are part of your experience as fact. Not everybody is going to be well and truly stuffed when they have an issue with their Ford. I was actually talking to somebody (fellow Ford fan and owner) at work about my Ford the other day, and he mentioned rust also occurring in a family member's Ford (Falcon I think). Took it to a big network dealer (the kind where you do expect the worst service possible) and it was fixed. Was it the fastest fix in the world? I don't know. All I know is, that nothing else was mentioned in the way of long waits, being stuffed around by the dealer, etc, except that it got fixed. There was issues with another major part of the car (the diff from memory?) where the part didn't arrive for a few weeks and the car was sitting in the service area for a while, but it got fixed in the end- again, no quibbling over the fix itself mentioned.

And I have had an experience with a minor issue so far- an aforementioned occasional problem with reverse gear. Told them at my peace of mind service- one mechanic did tell me it was a characteristic of the gearbox (but did give a plausible and technical explanation as to why), but the mechanic right next to him told me that he hadn't heard of it before, and as the mechanic looking after my car, he would check it for me. Got the car back half an hour late, with the same guy giving me a quick explanation as to what he checked. Nothing wrong really, just new gearbox syndrome as he put it. Yes, he could have just been palming me off, but he seemed honest and told me to call back and ask for it to be checked if it kept occurring (only has once or twice since then). Did get the typical "female driver" service spiel ("yep, we balanced everything for you!") from the other mechanic, but oh well. You win some you lose some!

Could go on for ages with other examples from other manufacturers (including a rather nasty experience we had with a Subaru), but the point is simple (and I need to get ready for work anyway, haha!)- people are going to have great and crap experiences with any manufacturer over any issue. Go onto any forum similar to this one for other car makers,and there will be a Fiestaman69 on there. And there will be people like Ms Jam. So I don't think Ford is a real standout for good or bad here, it comes down to what dealer you go to, what car you get, what problem you have, what customer rep you get on that day, etc etc. in other words, too many factors to truly warn somebody off a car,or conversely recommend they get that car. Nobody will have the same experience as you in anything in life, hence why you can recommend something to somebody and they have a completely different experience.

PS- apologies for any typos, weird words, etc- typing on my iPad, and like I said getting ready for work at the same time- hard to proof read as I'm writing haha!

Fled74 · 07-12-2011, 10:15 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the WS and WT Fiestas use the same IB5 gearboxes as the previous-gen Fiestas.
The IB5 doesn't always slot cleanly into reverse - I have the exact same issue (more like a non-issue) with my WP.

Fiesta_Man69 · 07-12-2011, 11:22 AM

Brydie, you said: "And I have had an experience with a minor issue so far- an aforementioned occasional problem with reverse gear. Told them at my peace of mind service- one mechanic did tell me it was a characteristic of the gearbox (but did give a plausible and technical explanation as to why), but the mechanic right next to him told me that he hadn't heard of it before, and as the mechanic looking after my car, he would check it for me." So you yourself have run in to mechanics that use the 'its a characteristic' of the car fob off, like myself and several others on here have. Fortunately for you there was a competent mechanic there too, and your car was fixed. I haven't had that luck, and I've been through 6 dealers now. So if that other decent bloke hadn't of been there, would the problem have been fixed, or would you have accepted it as a 'characterisitc' and lived with it?

And I've had that problem with reverse, particularly in the cold. But haven't had time to pursue it - considering everything it's the least of my concerns right now.

Foobar · 07-12-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fled74

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the WS and WT Fiestas use the same IB5 gearboxes as the previous-gen Fiestas.
The IB5 doesn't always slot cleanly into reverse - I have the exact same issue (more like a non-issue) with my WP.

I had noticed that getting the car into reverse was an issue with my WT, decided to RTFM and it says to depress the clutch for a few seconds before trying to engage reverse (or something like that). Much better now, unusual but better.

Ms_Jam · 07-12-2011, 06:27 PM

Thanks Brydie76

On the oil, there was a lot of discussion about this in these forums in 2009.

The consensus then, as I understood it, was to wait until 7,500 km before putting in the pure synthetic.

At the 3000 km mark, I asked the dealer to change the engine oil to a mineral oil. Then at 8000 km I had that changed for Castrol Edge Sport 5w-30. I have run my little Fiesta on Castrol Edge Sport on that ever since. For me at any rate, the engine did not come fully into its own until around the 10,000 km mark.

On reverse gear:

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread....e+Gear+Problem

brydie76 · 09-12-2011, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Brydie, you said: "And I have had an experience with a minor issue so far- an aforementioned occasional problem with reverse gear. Told them at my peace of mind service- one mechanic did tell me it was a characteristic of the gearbox (but did give a plausible and technical explanation as to why), but the mechanic right next to him told me that he hadn't heard of it before, and as the mechanic looking after my car, he would check it for me." So you yourself have run in to mechanics that use the 'its a characteristic' of the car fob off, like myself and several others on here have. Fortunately for you there was a competent mechanic there too, and your car was fixed. I haven't had that luck, and I've been through 6 dealers now. So if that other decent bloke hadn't of been there, would the problem have been fixed, or would you have accepted it as a 'characterisitc' and lived with it?

And I've had that problem with reverse, particularly in the cold. But haven't had time to pursue it - considering everything it's the least of my concerns right now.

But it did happen, and. I had a good service experience. Why should I worry about what could have happened in the past? If I did that I would be a very stressed (more than usual) person, haha!

But I digress, thanks for the link to that thread, Ms Jam, and I'll stop hijacking your thread now! Might try and make my own this weekend, if it is sunny and I can get some decent pics of my car!

greenfoam · 13-12-2011, 08:48 PM

I tell you what.... Apart from the blown headlights (haven't blown the current pair I got for $7 at ALDI yet!, they are proving to be the best pair yet) and the bent wheels (which I can blame on the Vic governments shithouse roads).

The car has been absolutely perfect. I changed the spark plugs the other day to NGK platinum's at 125,000ks!, the original plugs lasted that distance with minimal wear, pretty amazing. I thought I'd be pulling out some very sad and worn plugs.

Have been running Castrol edge sport 5-30 the entire time after the first oil change and it actually took almost 100,000km's for the engine to stop burning oil between services :S. The oil usage gradually got less and less as the km's went. So I guess the wear on the engine isn't much, currently at 125,000 it no longer needs to be topped up between 15,000km oil changes.

Average speed has been 70km/h over the life of the car and average fuel consumption is 5.6 litres per 100 mostly driving on rough surfaced roads. It goes into the low 5's on better roads and under 5 on hotmix freeways the city folk get the pleasure of driving on.

There's a few rattles in the cars interior here and there when driving on rough roads but you get that when cars start to flex more with ages etc, it's still very tight compared to most cars. Still silent on smoother roads in the city.

After trying to convince (and so far failing) the old Jeep Cherokee back into life and learning the ins and outs of keeping one of those overly complex old beasts running you can really appreciate something like the Fiesta