The greatest ever Australian performance car

[.:4:.]

In 1988 the old man of my brothers mate bought a vl turbo that he sent off for a turbo upgrade before delivery and it ran a high 14. It was a wheels magazine feature car in 88.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

No doubt that the I6T is best bang for buck especially aftermarket. Time has a bad habit of forgetting these types of cars though....
Remember the "iconic" VL RB30ET turbo...

Same praises , same street cred status same V8 killer image etc etc. cops loved em. Tuners loved em. Street and strip times were unbeatable.

Where are they now......

Still at the strip and still being tuned.
There were more Nissan powered VL's at Perths last power cruise than XYGT, XU1, Charger or other Bathurst legend combined... and faster than all of those combined...

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

Still at the strip and still being tuned.
There were more Nissan powered VL's at Perths last power cruise than XYGT, XU1, Charger or other Bathurst legend combined... and faster than all of those combined...

Really....
On their own website in drag day photos :
https://www.boostcruising.com/galler...otoscomau.html

Stacks and stacks of big boofy huge horsepower V8's with a handful of VLs ... if that. Point being is that from a promo and excitement perspective , people want to see V8's. Just sayin..

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

No doubt that the I6T is best bang for buck especially aftermarket. Time has a bad habit of forgetting these types of cars though....
Remember the "iconic" VL RB30ET turbo...

Same praises , same street cred status same V8 killer image etc etc. cops loved em. Tuners loved em. Street and strip times were unbeatable.

Where are they now......

True and i wonder where it failed. A nice original low km vl turbo would be a very cool thing to own...may not even be expensive but never see them..

[Bushbasher]

That's because they have all been grabbed up by cashed up bogans over the years and modded to within an inch of their lives. finding a clean unmodded VL turbo these days is like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Really....
On their own website in drag day photos :
https://www.boostcruising.com/galler...otoscomau.html

Stacks and stacks of big boofy huge horsepower V8's with a handful of VLs ... if that. Point being is that from a promo and excitement perspective , people want to see V8's. Just sayin..

From a promo perspective, but on the actual day(three days actually) different story... Theres as much rice in those photos as 8's most of which got spanked by a candy red VL... Same goes for the roll racing, same crowd, same story

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Stefan

True and i wonder where it failed. A nice original low km vl turbo would be a very cool thing to own...may not even be expensive but never see them..

They pop up every now and then...... not sure if they change hands quickly or for 50% of the asking price - lol
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/res...sortby=TopDeal

The price point for the same model year V8's is usually much more......
The hype and initial bang for buck doesn't always seem to translate well into the future. Magazine accolades get forgotten.

IMHO - The greatest ever Australian performance car in its engineering will definitely be the new GTSR W1 - no doubt about it. The spec sheet tells the story - its built for nuclear war - nothing else comes close and Im sure when the mandatory magazine performance testing starts to come out proper - it will demonstrate its brutality.

The greatest ever Australian performance car(s) in their intent and purpose will always be the homologated production car race specials of the early 70's - both Fords and Holdens. Family sedans Built specifically for racing performance and demonstrated their abilities year after year on the track in race situations. Rain , hail and shine.

I want them all dammit !.....

[roddy1960]

G'day....1971 XY GTHO Phase 3 Ford Falcon is number 1........ and always will be..
Daylight second..
When you get a chance , have a beer or a favourite drink , sit back and enjoy this wonderful video on the only car that evokes the passion and joy the GT/GTHO does and not forgetting the cars that led to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOQd1vT794s&t=135s
.There are an awful lot of honourable mentions from Ford , GMH and Chrysler etc..but no other car will rank as high as "our GT-HO "...Cheers Rod...

[Bent8]

Just noticed the GTS-R W1 has been dyno'd... 382rwkw

On their bookface page http://www.motoring.com.au/

[arronm]

That's probably similar power to a GTHO

[JC]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Just noticed the GTS-R W1 has been dyno'd... 382rwkw

On their bookface page http://www.motoring.com.au/

There's something not right when a 474kw claimed car only lays down 382rwkw, yet a car that is rated at 335/345/351 lays down between 300 and 320 rwkw on the dyno. Holdens power claims seem spurious, or Ford's are considerably under (and yes, I know about transient overboost).

Performance figures for the W1 so far have my beast leaving it behind down the 1/4! At half the price.....

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Just noticed the GTS-R W1 has been dyno'd... 382rwkw

On their bookface page http://www.motoring.com.au/

Sounds a bit high

Cheers Mick

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Sounds a bit high

Cheers Mick

Ho, Ho, Ho

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by JC

There's something not right when a 474kw claimed car only lays down 382rwkw, yet a car that is rated at 335/345/351 lays down between 300 and 320 rwkw on the dyno. Holdens power claims seem spurious, or Ford's are considerably under (and yes, I know about transient overboost).

Performance figures for the W1 so far have my beast leaving it behind down the 1/4! At half the price.....

They also ran an XR8 Sprint on the same dyno... 359rwkw

It's mind boggling when you think about it... a massive 6.2L V8 with a bigger 2.3L "intercooled" blower can only better FPV's non-intercooled 'Miami' by 23rwkw !

And just to put things in perspective, you can buy three XR8 Sprint's for the price of one GTS-R !!

No doubt it's an impressive car which can reach 98kph in 1st gear but it's seriously over-priced for what it offers.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by HO 3

Sounds a bit high

Cheers Mick

Agreed... XR8 Sprint made 359rwkw (highest stock output for any Miami?) on the same dyno so those numbers are most likely "optimistic" at best.

474kW advertised output equals 92kW power loss through the drivetrain.

Compare this to the average power loss of 65kW for the FPV's

[Silver']

"3.0L/100km at idle"
Rrrrright, that makes perfect sense

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Bent8

They also ran an XR8 Sprint on the same dyno... 359rwkw

It's mind boggling when you think about it... a massive 6.2L V8 with a bigger 2.3L "intercooled" blower can only better FPV's non-intercooled 'Miami' by 23rwkw !

And just to put things in perspective, you can buy three XR8 Sprint's for the price of one GTS-R !!

No doubt it's an impressive car which can reach 98kph in 1st gear but it's seriously over-priced for what it offers.

Just remember that peak power is 25% of the story, the remaining 75% is the torque the engine delivers from 2,200 to 6,200 odd revs....

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Just remember that peak power is 25% of the story, the remaining 75% is the torque the engine delivers from 2,200 to 6,200 odd revs....

Yes sir.... someone gets it.
In the review it was besting the M6 in many areas.
This ain't just a one trick straight line pony. It's intended to be more than that, much more....
how many times have we seen Fords pump out more POWA at the wheels only to get smashed at the track anyways.
Look, I bleed blue , I really do, but in this case I'm taking my blue coloured glasses off.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Yes sir.... someone gets it.
In the review it was besting the M6 in many areas.
This ain't just a one trick straight line pony. It's intended to be more than that, much more....
how many times have we seen Fords pump out more POWA at the wheels only to get smashed at the track anyways.
Look, I bleed blue , I really do, but in this case I'm taking my blue coloured glasses off.

Not forgetting the much more heavy duty driveline the HSV has may also lose extra power.
But hey, let the straw clutchers keep their grip, you know, only dyno queens matter.

[Nikked]

Im just trying to wrap my head around people finding a near 400rwkw result laughable...20 years ago we had the VS GTS-R with 215kw at the fly...

[shaness8]

Originally Posted by JC

There's something not right when a 474kw claimed car only lays down 382rwkw, yet a car that is rated at 335/345/351 lays down between 300 and 320 rwkw on the dyno. Holdens power claims seem spurious, or Ford's are considerably under (and yes, I know about transient overboost).

Performance figures for the W1 so far have my beast leaving it behind down the 1/4! At half the price.....

Nothing wrong with Holdens claims of 474kw minus 20% drive train loss 382rwkw spot on in my books.

Why Ford under quote their power figures is beyond me.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by asagaai

Just remember that peak power is 25% of the story, the remaining 75% is the torque the engine delivers from 2,200 to 6,200 odd revs....

And that's expected for an engine with 20% more cubic capacity.. but also remember that power is derived from torque...

At no point does the LS9 make anywhere near 20% more power or torque than the 5.0 Miami

It's advertised as making 474kW or 77kW/Litre

The XR8 Sprint on the same dyno is making around 420kW (flywheel) or 85kW/Litre with it's smaller 1.9L "non-intercooled" blower

So... if the Miami 5.0 had the same capacity as the LS9, it would be making around 525kW at the flywheel... and that's before you use the HSV's larger 2.3L intercooled blower running more boost !

On a side note, the 2013 GT500 with it's 5.8L DOHC supercharged V8 (Trinity) has a specific output of 85kW/Litre... what are the odds

I'm not saying the GTS-R is crap... what I am saying is it's pushrod powerplant is extremely inefficient and when you're forking out $170,000, this shouldn't be the case.

Can you imagine if FPV charged $150,000 for the GT-F... it would still be smashing Euro performance sedans today !

Just putting things in perspective guys... in the end, it all comes down to who has the biggest budget.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by shaness8

Nothing wrong with Holdens claims of 474kw minus 20% drive train loss 382rwkw spot on in my books.

Why Ford under quote their power figures is beyond me.

This is a common misconception... percentage power loses are never accurate because you will get a different figure each time you tune the engine for more power.

In most cases, there is a fixed amount of power loss through the drivetrain.

[Whitey-AMG]

Stick em side by side and mash the right foot or make them go round and round and round 10 times and see which one king hits the other.

The whole DYNO and Flywheel KW thing means nothing when you're talking about a "performance car"....... well to me anyways.

Its not how the GTHO was measured ore revered by - its status is based on how best it performed on the track - not on the rollers. A performance car should be the sum of its entire parts in the real world , not a set of graphs.

[asagaai]

If the question was "greatest ever Australian performance car with most advanced engine" then I would say either the FPV GTF 351 or the FPV F6 or Sprint 6.

4 valves per cylinder and turbo/supercharged goodness in a 6 or 8.

But the thread is the greatest ever Australian performance car, and that has to mean the greatest ever as a whole, accounting for the weakest links.

The GTS-R W1 probably takes it, intercooler, giant brakes, hardy driveline. Sure-it has pushrods, but the extra capacity of the engine makes up for that.

If the question was "greatest ever Australian performance car for its time" then I would still go for the GTHO phase 3, given what it did on track and how it stacked up against the rest of the world at that time.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bent8

And that's expected for an engine with 20% more cubic capacity.. but also remember that power is derived from torque...

At no point does the LS9 make anywhere near 20% more power or torque than the 5.0 Miami

It's advertised as making 474kW or 77kW/Litre

The XR8 Sprint on the same dyno is making around 420kW (flywheel) or 85kW/Litre with it's smaller 1.9L "non-intercooled" blower

So... if the Miami 5.0 had the same capacity as the LS9, it would be making around 525kW at the flywheel... and that's before you use the HSV's larger 2.3L intercooled blower running more boost !

On a side note, the 2013 GT500 with it's 5.8L DOHC supercharged V8 (Trinity) has a specific output of 85kW/Litre... what are the odds

I'm not saying the GTS-R is crap... what I am saying is it's pushrod powerplant is extremely inefficient and when you're forking out $170,000, this shouldn't be the case.

Can you imagine if FPV charged $150,000 for the GT-F... it would still be smashing Euro performance sedans today !

Just putting things in perspective guys... in the end, it all comes down to who has the biggest budget.

BMW M5, 4.4 turbo V8, 575hp. With claimed combined fuel figures the same as an FG XT 4.0 (9.9l/100km). Using your logic the Miami is just as much a dinosaur?
The fact the HSV uses push rods is irrelevant.
You want to bang on about effiency then drop the ICE altogether.
One eyed Ford fans still clutching at straws because HSV had the balls to give Australian and Holden Muscle a worthy send off.
Some of the attempts to discredit HSVs effort in this thread are cringe worthy and prime example why some blokes shy away from the local bogan rivalry.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Bent8

I'm not saying the GTS-R is crap... what I am saying is it's pushrod powerplant is extremely inefficient and when you're forking out $170,000, this shouldn't be the case.

Its efficient enough to deliver max power each and every time. You cant say that about the Falcon.

I wonder what compromises would have had to have been made both to engine and driveline to achieve that, and what impact that would have had on dyno figures....

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by b0son

Its efficient enough to deliver max power each and every time. You cant say that about the Falcon.

I wonder what compromises would have had to have been made both to engine and driveline to achieve that, and what impact that would have had on dyno figures....

Why can't you....what's so wrong with the Falcon...I'd love to know.,..Tell me...

[arronm]

Overboost available only at optimum times. Way to much power for a lacking chassis and driveline.

[Sar4890]

If we are looking for the greatest Australian performance car price probably isn't in the equation it would depend on certain rules that you want to adhere to making the call on the best.if for example it was the best Australian performance car for the smallest price i.e best bang for your buck i would think the xr6 turbo would be a tough act to beat.