If you had a crystal ball... looking back 10yrs

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 12:32 PM

I'm just flicking through a copy of Unique Cars from January 2001...

It is incredible what was on offer at that time... of course with the use of hindsight...

I was a cashed-up 19yr old at the time, and spent $12,500 on an EB Fairmont Ghia which had everything... looking back at what I could have bought (with my budget of $15,000) it is incredible...

Examples (and I will try to scan these and post up later)

Ford XA GT (page 56) Wild Violet/White Trim matching numbers fully restored in immac condition. Toploader, newly refurbed motor... $15,900

Ford XA GT Coupe (page 57) white/black genuine car, 56,000 miles. 351, 9" diff, toploader, original throughout, suit collector.... $22,000

Ford XW GT (page 71) fully restored, 91,000 miles, reef green/black trim
immaculate condition throughout... $26,500

Ford XY Replica GT (page 83) HO replica, 351, toploader, 9"diff, globes, new interior, excellent condition... $15,500ono

Holden Monaro HQ LS (page 84) V8 253, t-bar auto, excellent cond... $10,500

Holden VL Group A (page 84) Pluspack (with energy polariser) absolutely immaculate condition, build #251... $27,000

Holden HQ SS (page 102) 253, 4speed, original throughout, immaculate condition, full documentation... $11,000

Ford XT GT (page 110) Gold/Black 302Windsor, 4 speed, toploader, 8 3/4 diff, in show condition, 76,000 miles... $17,500

Holden VK SS Group A (page 142) Build # 2572 HDT Blue, low km, detailed undercarriage and engine bay. All genuine... $25,500 ono

Ford XY GT (page 142) Track Red/Black trim, 36gal tank, 8 track, 5 slotters, 130,000miles, ford verification, excellent condition... $35,000

Ford XW GT-HO Phase II (page 150) Reef Green/Black Trim. Totally Rebuilt inside and out, no expense spared. $45,000 ono

Ford XW GT (page 150) Brambles Red/Black Trim, very good condition matching numbers vehicle... $16,900

Ford XA GT Hardtop (page 152) Wild Violet/White Trim 38,176km total rebuild inside and out, no expense spared... $22,000

Ford XB GT (page 170) dark green in colour, 351, FMX, 9" Diff, twin gas research system, comes with original engine block, genuine... $9,000

Ford XC Cobra (page 178) number 90, all original, always garaged, automatic, air con, pwr steer, 126,000km... $21,000

Holden SL/R 5000 (page 179) genuine, in original condition, stored for 8 years, with log books, purple in colour.. $11,700

Holden GTS Monaro (page 184) 2 owners, silver mink, auto, good con.. $15,000

I could go on and on...(and I know i probably have given too many examples)... but this was just in the COLOUR section... i haven't even started on the black/white section (where most of the bargains are)...

Don't you wish that you could have known what was going to happen... not to make the money, but to snap these cars up when they were affordable??

To give you a quick idea of what that money compares to... VT/AU era...
HSV VT2 Clubsport (page 73) R8, Sting Red, 14,000km... $49,990
AU Fairmont Ghia (page 157) 4.0lt silver, full body kit, leather... $42,000

If only I could buy a Delorean that actually worked as a time-machine...

Road_Warrior · 08-02-2010, 12:45 PM

Yeah keep going back - I'm pretty sure I've got some old Unique Cars from like 1992 with Phase 3's in it for 15 grand

jphanna · 08-02-2010, 12:56 PM

who is going to make a prediction for a car in todays world, to reach obscene heights in 10 years?

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 12:58 PM

Well thats basically something that I was going to add into this thread...

Certainly in 2000/2001 we wouldn't have thought that these cars would have got close to achieving some of the peaks of the past 2-3 years...

If someone had have told me that a GTHO P3 would fetch over $500,000 then I would have laughed and carried on with the rest of my day...

So what will happen in the next 10 years?
Could we see million dollar muscle cars? It may sound ridiculous now - but so did the above propositions 10 years ago...

mickyyyy · 08-02-2010, 01:01 PM

Yeh we all do silly things through our lives and that costed me 13k last yr and could of used that money elsewhere 2 make more.

Adamz Ghia · 08-02-2010, 01:02 PM

Next biggies in my opinion will be the T3's, especially the TL-50, I think 3 were made...?

peachey80 · 08-02-2010, 01:10 PM

There wont be another "series" of cars like these that fetch 100 times the purchase price, or anywhere near that number.
Some of these cars like the T series, EB, EL GT, Monaro's W427's will hold there value, but will be nothing like we've seen with these 70's cars.
IMO It simply wont happen.

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 01:14 PM

AdamzGhia: I tend to agree with the T3 prediction....

You have to remember if they are SUPER RARE (T3 TL-50) then not many people will be looking for a car like that, not many for sale...

Remembering that there were thousands of GT's and GTS monaros built... literally... (around 12,000 GT's built from XR-XB)... so there are LOTS of them potentially out there... the main question is where and what condition...
Sure - some of these cars are in the graveyard, and are lost without trace... but there are plenty of them still out there...

I suppose now there is an 'awareness' of limited edition cars... maybe it will only be the certified limited cars that will jump in price...

My prediction has always been the sleeper - the ED XR8 Sprint...
I want one so bad...
I've driven one that was a documented 12 second car... (I actually found the ad for this vehicle in the above mentioned Unique Cars Issue 2001)

I've got some older editions of Unique Cars around... i'll be looking for them when I get home...

gtfpv · 08-02-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

I'm just flicking through a copy of Unique Cars from January 2001...

It is incredible what was on offer at that time... of course with the use of hindsight...

I was a cashed-up 19yr old at the time, and spent $12,500 on an EB Fairmont Ghia which had everything... looking back at what I could have bought (with my budget of $15,000) it is incredible...

Examples (and I will try to scan these and post up later)

Ford XA GT (page 56) Wild Violet/White Trim matching numbers fully restored in immac condition. Toploader, newly refurbed motor... $15,900

Ford XA GT Coupe (page 57) white/black genuine car, 56,000 miles. 351, 9" diff, toploader, original throughout, suit collector.... $22,000

Ford XW GT (page 71) fully restored, 91,000 miles, reef green/black trim
immaculate condition throughout... $26,500

Ford XY Replica GT (page 83) HO replica, 351, toploader, 9"diff, globes, new interior, excellent condition... $15,500ono

Holden Monaro HQ LS (page 84) V8 253, t-bar auto, excellent cond... $10,500

Holden VL Group A (page 84) Pluspack (with energy polariser) absolutely immaculate condition, build #251... $27,000

Holden HQ SS (page 102) 253, 4speed, original throughout, immaculate condition, full documentation... $11,000

Ford XT GT (page 110) Gold/Black 302Windsor, 4 speed, toploader, 8 3/4 diff, in show condition, 76,000 miles... $17,500

Holden VK SS Group A (page 142) Build # 2572 HDT Blue, low km, detailed undercarriage and engine bay. All genuine... $25,500 ono

Ford XY GT (page 142) Track Red/Black trim, 36gal tank, 8 track, 5 slotters, 130,000miles, ford verification, excellent condition... $35,000

Ford XW GT-HO Phase II (page 150) Reef Green/Black Trim. Totally Rebuilt inside and out, no expense spared. $45,000 ono

Ford XW GT (page 150) Brambles Red/Black Trim, very good condition matching numbers vehicle... $16,900

Ford XA GT Hardtop (page 152) Wild Violet/White Trim 38,176km total rebuild inside and out, no expense spared... $22,000

Ford XB GT (page 170) dark green in colour, 351, FMX, 9" Diff, twin gas research system, comes with original engine block, genuine... $9,000

Ford XC Cobra (page 178) number 90, all original, always garaged, automatic, air con, pwr steer, 126,000km... $21,000

Holden SL/R 5000 (page 179) genuine, in original condition, stored for 8 years, with log books, purple in colour.. $11,700

Holden GTS Monaro (page 184) 2 owners, silver mink, auto, good con.. $15,000

I could go on and on...(and I know i probably have given too many examples)... but this was just in the COLOUR section... i haven't even started on the black/white section (where most of the bargains are)...

Don't you wish that you could have known what was going to happen... not to make the money, but to snap these cars up when they were affordable??

To give you a quick idea of what that money compares to... VT/AU era...
HSV VT2 Clubsport (page 73) R8, Sting Red, 14,000km... $49,990
AU Fairmont Ghia (page 157) 4.0lt silver, full body kit, leather... $42,000

If only I could buy a Delorean that actually worked as a time-machine...

i bet 80% of those carsyou could buy for the same price today!!!!

flappist · 08-02-2010, 02:25 PM

Why would a T3 be a classic collectable?

Because it was an epic failure in sales?
Because it is almost completely ignored by everyone except T3 "train spotters"

All appreciating collectable items have something special about them and have a public profile.

GTs, Cobras etc are all instantly recognisable by ordinary people.
Just being rare usually means no one wanted them in the first place.

e.g. 3.2l EA, F6X, Force, manual Fairmont Ghia, Ghia Wagon, Couger, ST24, Probe, Taurus, XR2, XR3, XR4, Turbo Laser etc etc etc.
On the other teams; 4cyl commy, P76, Cordia, Starion, XU6.... there are millions of them and there are always "train spotters" who love, cherish and praise them as the holy grail but never want to pay very much for them.

Apart from a short term and, I suspect artifically enhanced, bubble of financial insanity a short while ago with the Phase 3 the collectable market really is a money hole, only for those who have buckets full of it and retain those buckets by paying as little as possible to "amateur" collectors in distress.

Collecting is a game for the rich not speculators.....

last fairlane · 08-02-2010, 02:33 PM

Back in 1975 I bought from a car yard a GTS 327 for $1750
yeah 17 hundred and fifty dollars
and met a guy who had a GT phase 3 who wanted $4000 for it
I told him why would I pay that much when you only paid $4500 for it new
later on I traded my GTS in on a Valiant wagon (too many kids)

IF ONLY
and looking in Performance and Prestige car magazine from June 1989
theres
XT GT for $23000
HK GTS for $9000
Mach 1 Mustang for $6000
XA SVO genuine phase 4 for $24000
(possibly the rarest Falcon ever there words not mine)
XY GT lookalike excelent condition $4500

and in 1964 I bought a 34 Ford 3 window coupe for ten pounds($20)
and sold it later on for fifty pounds($100) I was so rapt at the time that I made money on a car but regreted it ever since
now Ive got a Thunderbird which Im keeping
I will never let this happen

thanks John

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by last fairlane

Performance and Prestige car magazine from June 1989
theres

XA SVO genuine phase 4 for $24000
(possibly the rarest Falcon ever there words not mine)

Interesting - I've read the article in the StreetFords magazine about a dozen times.... don't think it was advertised for sale at that point...

Wonder if it was someone with a dress up... (any photos included in ad?)...

sly_ba · 08-02-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why would a T3 be a classic collectable?

Because it was an epic failure in sales?
Because it is almost completely ignored by everyone except T3 "train spotters"

All appreciating collectable items have something special about them and have a public profile.

GTs, Cobras etc are all instantly recognisable by ordinary people.
Just being rare usually means no one wanted them in the first place.

e.g. 3.2l EA, F6X, Force, manual Fairmont Ghia, Ghia Wagon, Couger, ST24, Probe, Taurus, XR2, XR3, XR4, Turbo Laser etc etc etc.
On the other teams; 4cyl commy, P76, Cordia, Starion, XU6.... there are millions of them and there are always "train spotters" who love, cherish and praise them as the holy grail but never want to pay very much for them.

Apart from a short term and, I suspect artifically enhanced, bubble of financial insanity a short while ago with the Phase 3 the collectable market really is a money hole, only for those who have buckets full of it and retain those buckets by paying as little as possible to "amateur" collectors in distress.

Collecting is a game for the rich not speculators.....

I tend to disagree. I think the T3 will be worth something in years to come.... they were not as mass produced as the B-series GT's of today and, in their day, represented the final car made by tickford and the best assualt on the cars offered by Holden /HSV.

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Why would a T3 be a classic collectable?

Because it was an epic failure in sales?
Because it is almost completely ignored by everyone except T3 "train spotters"

All appreciating collectable items have something special about them and have a public profile.

GTs, Cobras etc are all instantly recognisable by ordinary people.
Just being rare usually means no one wanted them in the first place.

e.g. 3.2l EA, F6X, Force, manual Fairmont Ghia, Ghia Wagon, Couger, ST24, Probe, Taurus, XR2, XR3, XR4, Turbo Laser etc etc etc.
On the other teams; 4cyl commy, P76, Cordia, Starion, XU6.... there are millions of them and there are always "train spotters" who love, cherish and praise them as the holy grail but never want to pay very much for them.

Collecting is a game for the rich not speculators.....

Most of the cars you suggest as an example were also Failures in sales...
F6X... MASSIVE flop...
Force 6 & 8 Range - may have some merit to it... i'll pay that one...
Cougar/Taurus/Probe - never were all that special... doubtful they ever will be...

The T-Series only negative feedback would have been that they were from the AU - the second most unloved model in Falcon History (beaten by #1 failure - EA Falcon)...

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i bet 80% of those carsyou could buy for the same price today!!!!

find me one - i'll be there with a cheque book...

greens_tuf · 08-02-2010, 03:01 PM

I really got into the scene about 4 years ago, and I have seen massive changes in prices just over 4 years...

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist
All appreciating collectable items have something special about them and have a public profile.

What about XE's with factory 351's (apart from the ESP's)? They're nothing special, but they fetch decent dollars, if you can one...

In 10 years time when everything is all OHC and DOHC and choked up by emission laws, the T3's will be like looking back at the 70s/80s cars, also since it is a factory stroker...

I think it all depends on what you grow up around. Back in the XR-XE days I guess these were tough cars and growing up alot of kids would have known that.

These days with all the jap cars and what have you, it's just not the same. My dream first car was an Series II/II AU XR8, that is my XY GT, and my GTHO is the Series III TE-50/TS-50.

trippytaka · 08-02-2010, 03:11 PM

I have been looking throguh 1995, when I was looking for a car... HK 327 Bathurst Monaro $15k, XY GT Phase 3 $50k!

4Vman · 08-02-2010, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sly_ba

I tend to disagree. I think the T3 will be worth something in years to come.... they were not as mass produced as the B-series GT's of today and, in their day, represented the final car made by tickford and the best assualt on the cars offered by Holden /HSV.

doubt it, they've got to stop depreciating first before anything like that might happen...

Wally · 08-02-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peachey80

There wont be another "series" of cars like these that fetch 100 times the purchase price, or anywhere near that number.
Some of these cars like the T series, EB, EL GT, Monaro's W427's will hold there value, but will be nothing like we've seen with these 70's cars.
IMO It simply wont happen.

I thnk you are right. Unless you were there it's hard to explain the era, but it was rapid change, the ligereing cloud of WWII deprivations had lifted, new world order stuff and these cars were trophies and icons of that new optimism. Since then things have just been a progression really, punctuated with only pockets of wow factor. Baby boomers were raised with My Three Sons recipe and rebelled accordingly with their choice of cars, while the subsequent generations have been raised with the My Two Dads recipe......

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

doubt it, they've got to stop depreciating first before anything like that might happen...

yes 4Vman, too true...
as we know with stockmarkets and real estate... prices can drop, plateau, or spike...

we'll just have to see where the market goes with this one...

though, my personal feeling is that the prices will have to dive a little more before they rise again... and generally the prices will correlate with the realestate/interest rates...

Funny thing is though, flicking thru that same magazine... I notice that Mustangs etc are still around the $30k mark... same as they are now...

last fairlane · 08-02-2010, 03:36 PM

To Loftie and anyone else that is interested
I will re type the ad out word for word for you

Start of ad > "XA GT S.V.O. PH 4 1972 Possibly the rarest GT built.
Genuine PH 4 with factory fitted C6
Brambles red EY 117 equipped with full factory performance package eared sump 380 Boss engine.36 gallon tank Globe Bathurst 17X7 Vac tank 31 spline modular Daytona
Everything heavy duty
this car would suit new car buyer
will consider trade
PH (08)2624856 SA $24000"< End of ad<

now these are my words
the car is red with blacked out bonnet
and the reg No is RYR-068
remember this ad is twenty years old
from Performance and Prestige Cars June 1998
and the ph No doesnt have enough numbers in it
sorry I cant send a pic (no scanner)
I could try and take a pic with my camera and see if I can up load it for you
thanks john

prydey · 08-02-2010, 03:46 PM

cars today have no racing pedigree. that is the main reason the 'muscle car' era cars are so collectible today. they are part of aussie motorsport history and culture.

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by last fairlane

To Loftie and anyone else that is interested
I will re type the ad out word for word for you

Start of ad > "XA GT S.V.O. PH 4 1972 Possibly the rarest GT built.
Genuine PH 4 with factory fitted C6
Brambles red EY 117 equipped with full factory performance package eared sump 380 Boss engine.36 gallon tank Globe Bathurst 17X7 Vac tank 31 spline modular Daytona
Everything heavy duty
this car would suit new car buyer
will consider trade
PH (08)2624856 SA $24000"< End of ad<

now these are my words
the car is red with blacked out bonnet
and the reg No is RYR-068
remember this ad is twenty years old
from Performance and Prestige Cars June 1998
and the ph No doesnt have enough numbers in it
sorry I cant send a pic (no scanner)
I could try and take a pic with my camera and see if I can up load it for you
thanks john

Hmm... interesting... must be one of the 3 race cars....
anyone know anything bout which car this would be???

don't go too overboard over trying to post an image of the ad, though if you do i'd certainly love a copy of the photo!

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

cars today have no racing pedigree. that is the main reason the 'muscle car' era cars are so collectible today. they are part of aussie motorsport history and culture.

not sure if motorsport history is a definate reason for a car to be collectable...

certainly part of the culture...

But aren't cars still part of our culture now??
ie: the kids that dreamed about buying a 70's GT/GTS are now in their 30's/40s/50s...
the kids that wanted to buy a HSV Clubsport or a GT-P etc will be in their 30s/40s/50s in the future... and not all of these cars are gonna be around... some will fade away and be scrapped/crashed/destroyed... same as the GT's and GTS's...

So there is a good chance that in the future, there will continue to be a car culture, and there will be kids dreaming of FG GT's and their 'famous' panda eyes...

Question is, what will the world be like then?? Fuel costs?? Road Laws?? Car Culture?? how it will all work is a mystery...

20 years ago you wouldn't have guessed that the world would be as it is today... and can assure you 100%, we (someone) will be having this same conversation 20 years from now...

4Vman · 08-02-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

cars today have no racing pedigree. that is the main reason the 'muscle car' era cars are so collectible today. they are part of aussie motorsport history and culture.

100% spot on.

**Tucool** · 08-02-2010, 04:18 PM

I wish I had bought a XB GT 10 or 15 years ago... had the chance and put it off till later... when later came, the prices were astronomical... 20/20 hindsight can be a **********

:

flappist · 08-02-2010, 04:46 PM

I owned a HG GTS Monaro and sold it for $500 in 1981.

I was glad to get such a good price for it at the time.....

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I owned a HG GTS Monaro and sold it for $500 in 1981.

I was glad to get such a good price for it at the time.....

OUCH...

But to be fair... to have made lots of money on it, you'd have had 30 years of storage and maintenance on top of that $500.00...

Still... have to be one of the cheapest HG GTS's i've ever heard of...

RedHotGT · 08-02-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucool

I wish I had bought a XB GT 10 or 15 years ago... had the chance and put it off till later... when later came, the prices were astronomical... 20/20 hindsight can be a **********

:

as I put in original post... there was one in there for $9,000 in 2001...

I spent $12,500 on a full/sick EB Ghia...

I know what I wish I had have bought...

LOCO XP · 08-02-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

OUCH...

But to be fair... to have made lots of money on it, you'd have had 30 years of storage and maintenance on top of that $500.00...

Still... have to be one of the cheapest HG GTS's i've ever heard of...

My mate who had his Top 60 HT Monaro at the 'nats the last couple of years picked up a HG 186S GTS for $500 3 years ago....

.... but lets just say it needs a little bit of work....

.... however with a reasonable amount of work still required, it's still a better car than what his HT started as, and he has been offered $25000 as is. But he wants to have a little fun, just do a clean resto and retain the 6 etc then sell it, hopefully make a couple of bucks in the process. Goes to show there is still some bargains around