Used car dealer troubles

Glitch · 31-03-2010, 06:16 PM

Hi guys, new here. Sorry if this isnt the right section to post this!

I recently bought a '04 Ford Fairmont BA Ghia with 119k kms on the clock and thought i'd sign up here.
The forums have been very helpfull, and i've purchased a couple of things for the Ghia already (external transmission cooler and ASL ipod booster kit thing).

Now, before purchasing the car.. I done all the usual stuff, took it for a test drive, got an inspection done. Drove smooth, no problems at all, looked like a very clean example. The stateroads inspection failed to pick up that it had a ruptured radiator mixing transmission fluid, even though I ensured the inspector to check for the problem. See the emails below..

Quote:

Hi ,

In the report it lists that the Radiator Reservoir and Coolant Condition is Dirty/Needs Flush, and the Transmission Oil Condition was listed as Not Visible Sealed Unit.

I was speaking to a couple of mates that own BA’s and apparently there is a common problem with the Radiator corroding and getting mixed in with the Transmission fluid.
Is this reason to worry at all? I’ve heard some nightmare stories of the transmission and radiator needing replacing to get it all fixed.

I know next to nothing about the mechanics of cars, so it might be nothing. I’ll be picking up the car later today.

Cheers,
.

This was the reply.

Quote:

I haven't heard or found that this is a common problem so I dont think that there is any reason to worry. I test a lot of cars and have not yet come across one that has the problem you describe.

The coolant in the car showed no sign of oil. The radiator was pressure tested - no fault was found.

The transmissions in these cars do not have dip sticks so therefore the transmission is known as a sealed unit.

Regards

So.. all that aside.. the car broke down the day after I picked it up.

Here's a timeline of what i've had to deal with so far.

Friday 19th, remittance from finance sent to the dealer. Told the car isn't ready. Still having stuff done for RWC.

Weekend passes.

Monday 22nd. Finance settled (ie. funds were in the dealer's account). Told car is still not ready, as the mechanic has found the radiator needs replacing.

Tuesday 23rd, pick up the car in the afternoon. Hasn't been detailed inside, still dirty.

Wednesday 24th, driving home.. the car breaks down. Transmission failure. Car towed back to the mechanics.

Thursday 25th, mechanic says the car is being tested.

Friday, Weekend, Monday.. no news.

Tuesday 30th, told the car is being taken to transmission specialists to get fixed.

Wednesday 31st, called the transmission place, and was told the car won't be ready untill after Easter.

So I'm looking at another two weeks without a car. I'm still paying for insurance, repayments and interest however. Do you guys think this is acceptable? If you were in my position, what would you be asking/demanding from the dealer?

When I called up the transmission guys (J Pringles, North Melb) it sounded like they were just going to repair the transmission rather than replace it. Do I have a say in what gets done? Obviously I'd prefer a replacement transmission if the current one has had coolant/water run through it.

The whole thing has been a huge blow to my impressions of the car. For it to break down 24 hours into picking it up isn't exactly a confidence builder.

Smoke Pursuit · 31-03-2010, 06:21 PM

Its not the cars fault.. Sounds like a dodgy dealer experience. Did you have the car inspected yourself? Did it come with any RACV inspection?

Regards,

FPV 5TH · 31-03-2010, 06:21 PM

I would be asking for a free loan car at the minimum.

flappist · 31-03-2010, 06:21 PM

Which state and how recent? There are statutory warranties that should cover you.

Glitch · 31-03-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

Did you have the car inspected yourself? Did it come with any RACV inspection?

Regards,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitch

Now, before purchasing the car.. I done all the usual stuff, took it for a test drive, got an inspection done.

Yep, inspection was done by Stateroads. I wasn't impressed that they didnt pick it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Which state and how recent? There are statutory warranties that should cover you.

Victoria, bought it last week on the 19th. Statutory warranty is covering the repairs, but that isn't really the issue. Its more so that i'm paying for a car (and related costs) that I don't have.

LightingBA · 31-03-2010, 09:06 PM

Hey mate sounds like your not having a good time with this car, i would personally hit the dealer up for a rental car for the period that you don't have your for as it should have been picked up in the inspection.
Cheers.

IH8HSV · 31-03-2010, 09:34 PM

I dont think the dealer has any legal obligation to provide you with a loan car or any other compensation.

However if he has any morals at all and wanted to keep a good reputation for his business, he should be striving to satisfy you.

No matter what happens he has to cover all repairs covering the transmission ( or even replace it if it cant be repaired ) - under the statutory warranty.

Ive said this before when I was having a bad experience with a tyre dealer: " Im part of a large forum on the internet with 1000's of users, and we discuss businesses like yours.

Believe it or not it got things moving a bit quicker.

philfree · 31-03-2010, 10:00 PM

Hi
As a side note i am pretty sure that after water gets into the the gearbox it's a complete overhaul of the gearbox or a new one

Kryton · 31-03-2010, 10:15 PM

It kind of is a sticky area.
theres nowhere in any contract that says you will be provided a car while the other car is being fixed.
Happening the next day after you bought it is a bummer but there is no obligation to you in relation to another car.
You have an obligation to the financier in that you have to pay for the car regardless of if you have it or not - no different if it gets written off and you dont have insurance - you still have to pay for the car even though it is destroyed.

Had this had happened after the stat warranty period, you still wouldnt have been offered a car by anyone (and your not entitled to be offered one either) and youd have to foot the bill yourself.

Now the fact that is Easter and business;s do shut, its just bad timing, nothing you can do for that and really, why should you expect someone else to take time away from their own family just so you dont have to wait 2 weeks for your car - that isnt fair either.

Your best bet is to go have a chat with the dealer and see if you can work something out in regards to a loan car for the time being.
Just remember though that he has no obligation to give you one and he also has no obligation to give you financial compensation in any way shape for form - dont even bother asking him to pay 2 weeks of your loan.
In saying this, if you keep a cool head and dont go off when you dont get your own way.
He hasnt sold a dud car, its just bad timing, this is what a stat warranty is for.

BTW, my BA Fairmont has done 200000km on the original engine and radiator and it hasnt spat it yet - yes, its common but obviously not all do it.
I havent got a trans cooler either but i do have mechanical warranty/insurance so if it does let go, it wont be coming out of my pocket.

Good luck with it.

ebxr82nv · 31-03-2010, 10:29 PM

in your original post you say the mechanic found the radiator needed to be replaced, whos mechanic was it? did it get replaced? if not what the hell were you driving it for? In nsw theres a 3month/5000km stat warranty to cover things like this.

Auslandau · 31-03-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glitch

Yep.... Statutory warranty is covering the repairs, but that isn't really the issue. Its more so that i'm paying for a car (and related costs) that I don't have.

This is why its good to buy from a dealer rather than private as it seems that it is covered. Its just a bugger that you will be without it for a while but unfortunatley thats the way it goes ..... at least its being fixed. As said by bfiipursuit its not the cars fault and just the way things fall.

The dealer has no reason to give you a loan car ... if it happened that day or 6 months later ..... deal is done, car is being fixed and am sure you will be happy with it when it does come home. Just my thoughts on it ........

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last fairlane · 01-04-2010, 10:19 AM

That happened to my AU although it was 4 years after I bought it
the radiator leaked green into the transmission and when it cooled down the red went back into the radiator
in the end the trans died so had to replace the radiator and trans
$100 new in a box for the radiator and a second hand ED trans complete with dipstick went in and have had no trouble for the last 3 years

on another note I bought an AU Fairlane Ghia from a dealer
and on the first day we had it
there was a pool of red oil under the car
so I took it back and they said no probs just drop it off at the service dept
I would ring up and was told it would take another day and then another day
I had a go and told them I was catching cabs and needed my car
can I borrow one
the response was a definite no
and when I said why is it taking so long to replace a power steering pump
I was told by law they have 14 days to do the repairs
so there doesnt seem to be any come back on the dealer
John

prydey · 01-04-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auslandau

This is why its good to buy from a dealer rather than private as it seems that it is covered. Its just a bugger that you will be without it for a while but unfortunatley thats the way it goes ..... at least its being fixed. As said by bfiipursuit its not the cars fault and just the way things fall.

The dealer has no reason to give you a loan car ... if it happened that day or 6 months later ..... deal is done, car is being fixed and am sure you will be happy with it when it does come home. Just my thoughts on it ........

sales from private owners are still covered up to 1000km i think. my brother bought a dual cab diesel rodeo from someone on sunshine coast who claimed to be a diesel mechanic and assured him the car was in near perfect condition. the engine looked a bit like he had just steam cleaned it. long story short, he drove it back to adelaide, and whilst it never missed a beat, there was evidence of oil leaking underneath.

he rang around a few places (cops, dept fair trading, qld rta etc) and was told that if he had done less than 1000km the seller could've been liable.

anyway, regarding the ba in the original post, at least now you will know the gearbox and radiator are good for another few years at least and the work done should come with its own warranty as well. make sure you fit that external trans cooler and bypass the radiator if you are worried about it happening again. as mentioned, some people never fit trans coolers or bypass the radiator and never have an issue but for the small cost its peace of mind.

gtfpv · 01-04-2010, 02:02 PM

relax relax relax my friend , much better that these things hjappen immediately rather than a month down the track . you are getting warranty repairs . the car became yours immediately after you got in it to drive off.
under this scenario the dealer has an obligation to fix the car under warranty . your obligation is to provide the car for repairs .
finance etc is your problem so is your transport whilst these repairs are being carried out .
relax relax relax . the car will be better when you get it back, with an overhauled gear box . the transmission specialist wont do a bodgie and make less profit to please a dealer , they are in business for them selves and will provide the service they are in business for .
good luck , well done and relax.
if it was private 2nd hand you'd be far worse off .

also i bet when you bought this car you didn't expect a brand new radiator and overhauled gearbox . now your getting one .

Busted · 01-04-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

relax relax relax my friend , much better that these things hjappen immediately rather than a month down the track . you are getting warranty repairs . the car became yours immediately after you got in it to drive off.
under this scenario the dealer has an obligation to fix the car under warranty . your obligation is to provide the car for repairs .
finance etc is your problem so is your transport whilst these repairs are being carried out .
relax relax relax . the car will be better when you get it back, with an overhauled gear box . the transmission specialist wont do a bodgie and make less profit to please a dealer , they are in business for them selves and will provide the service they are in business for .
good luck , well done and relax.
if it was private 2nd hand you'd be far worse off .

also i bet when you bought this car you didn't expect a brand new radiator and overhauled gearbox . now your getting one .

What he said.
Plus the dealer only has to replace your gearbox with a 2nd hand one. They are rebuilding yours so ide say your in front.

Auslandau · 01-04-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

sales from private owners are still covered up to 1000km i think.

Don't know about SA and the laws there but in Vic ..... buyer beware on private sales ..... no come back .... unless you have an issue with a RWC item then it will fall back on to the person who signed it off with in the 30 days of signing (not when bought) but again that can depend on what it is ..... a bad gear box or stuffed radiator isnt a roadworthy item, to a certain degree, but a torn drivers seat is.

Oil leaks can be a RWC item and you would have some comeback here .... but beleive me I have been down this path on a shonky RWC and unless I spent lots of money pursueing it ... it wasn't worth it.

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brendo83 · 02-04-2010, 10:41 AM

I checked out the stateroads website last week and they claim that 80% of all vehicles tested are found to have had odometers rolled back, and 50% have been involved in major accidents.
I don't believe for one second that those figures are anywhere near accurate.
Would you trust a company that uses lies and scaremongering to promote their business?

JC · 02-04-2010, 11:47 AM

Glitch (is your username related to your experience with this car?). The fact that they are fixing the car under stat warranty means you are way in front with this car. The wait is unfortunate, but a replacement trans does take time (especially if it is undergoing a rebuild) - I think I'd rather wait and know it's been fixed properly than get it back too fast and then be worrying what the quick fix was.

It's unfortunate this happened, but fortunate it will be fixed under warranty.

The only thing I'd suggest is having the auto trans fit a large V8 external oil cooler and by pass the radiator so this issue doesn't happen again - even if it's at your cost. PWR make a 280 x 255 cooler, and that's the one you want (retail around $140 from supercheap for Davies Craig brand, made by PWR). Cost fitted should be under the $300 mark, and is cheap insurance to keep your auto trans running for the next 5 years.

Glitch · 05-04-2010, 02:59 PM

I got my car back, but its still slipping in 1st and 4th gear.

On the freeway, going up a slight hill at 100km in 4th, it slips and is really rough.
Taking off from a set of lights it slips, unless you accelerate really slowly.

Dealer said they reconditioned the transmission, but I think it needs to be replaced.

If its having trouble now, I'm worried about how it will be in 3 months when im on my own.

Jim Goose · 05-04-2010, 03:33 PM

Take it back.
Job wasnt done properly.
I wouldnt have taken it home, best if you turned right around and brought it back and showed the dealer or whoever you picked the car up from that the problem is still there.

Id also give a call to the ACCC (the tootheless tiger) and see if they can do anything.

Perko · 05-04-2010, 03:43 PM

Sorry to hear that you are having so many troubles. I would definitely take the car back. But visit a reputable transmission mechanic first to get their opinion on what is wrong and possibly what has been done to date. That way you are armed with some questions and possible arguments if they try to spin you some B/S. I would definitely try to ask for a loan car but as everyone else has stated they are not obliged to do so.

Jason[98.EL] · 05-04-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Take it back.
Job wasnt done properly.
I wouldnt have taken it home, best if you turned right around and brought it back and showed the dealer or whoever you picked the car up from that the problem is still there.

Id also give a call to the ACCC (the tootheless tiger) and see if they can do anything.

you really are a goose Why the hell doeshe need to call the accc

I agree he should take it back to the dealer and sort it out that way if that doesnt work then start to push harder

Jason

Jim Goose · 05-04-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason[98.EL]

you really are a goose Why the hell doeshe need to call the accc

I agree he should take it back to the dealer and sort it out that way if that doesnt work then start to push harder

Jason

Gee and here i was thinking thats what the ACCC was for... when customers get dudded or ripped off....

Jason[98.EL] · 05-04-2010, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Gee and here i was thinking thats what the ACCC was for... when customers get dudded or ripped off....

He has not been ripped or dudded off as you say yet but it is possable that he may be done over

Taking it to the accc is the last thing he wants to do at this point in time being that his car needs to be fixed and there is always the chance that the repair worked fine for the repairer and has since developed another problem

Why is it all people think that you should report a buisness that may not know that there was another issue. Give the guys a bit of a chance to rectify the problem. Oris that to much to ask for

To the op take it back state your issue and see what happens