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Old 02-07-2018, 09:20 PM   #31
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

AUIII XR8 manual will be worth keeping. XR AU styling will become more admired as time goes buy.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:07 PM   #32
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

I also agree the 60s and 70s style cars will keep being collectable for quite some time yet.

I mean the kids of today could always put electric motors in them if they are that way inclined....

I have always wondered myself on how long can the candle burn on 60s, 70s model cars
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:10 PM   #33
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.
Hi Billy (slowsnake),

I don't subscribe to that theory one bit...

You have made it very clear in previous posts / threads that you are not a fan of the "X Series" cars and how you can build a GT for <$30K...

This is not what this thread is about...
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:23 PM   #34
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
Hello,
The candle will burn forever,but it depends what candle you are referring to?
We all know of at least one person in our lives whose " toys " totally consume their lives,I know what folk earn as a weekly wage or on a salary who always seem to live beyond their means,I don't wonder anymore,I just ask em straight out now..."where the hell does a tradesman get the cabbage from"...or "did you win lotto?"...or did "a rich relo die"...some folk just have to hide their income,only an idiot would pay one million for a car that cost $5000, and only has a market in Australia?..or New Zealand?

Cheers Billy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsnake
Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.
More B.S from Billy.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Interesting thread this one.

For me, i have never bought cars with collectibility in mind.

I have 4 cars.

Xb coupe. 1st car i bought. Had it coming up to 30 years. 1 resto done by me in the backyard. Gets driven at times.

P6 ltd. Had it 10 years. Just love the luxury from back in the day.

78 escort. Only had it a few years. Just came upon it and been happy with it since .

22 model t. Had this for about 25 years now. Its a great little runabout.

Funny thing is when i get the historic log signed it turns out the model t is the most frequently used out of all of them. And this has no doors, starter - yep. Stalling at the lights is a bugga - no real brakes, and about the hardest thing to drive.
But i can guarrentee that when i do, all the stresses in life are gone for those moments. Sure at times it would be nice to go 40klms an hour, but why hurry anyways?

The cycles of collectable cars will rise and fall across the range of vehicles.

We will see a trend on the next generation moving towards the jap market for things like wrx, evos, skylines and that stuff. Thats what they all grew up wanting. And these prices are peanuts as well. Just like the 70s cars in the mid 90s...

To me the return i get from my so called investments is getting away from life and just going to the shops or bunnings in any one of these toys. I probably will never sell any of them anyways so to me they are not worth anything at all!



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Old 03-07-2018, 02:50 AM   #36
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PLEASE READ AND DON'T IGNORE

Good Morning Everyone

I've gotten up at 2.30 in the morning in the freezing cold and thought I would have a look what's going on in AFF.

Instead of sitting here enjoying other people's opinions, I have had to sit here and delete posts.



Ladies and Gentlemen, I am starting to get sick of deleting posts that breach T&Cs. If the moderation team post something about how the thread is heading please take notice - they are nothing more than trying to give out a friendly reminder that some of you may be getting near to crossing the line.

If you have unintentionally posted something or we feel that you are having a bad day and it is out of character we will delete it and send you a PM outlining why.

The last thing the moderators in this area want to do is hand out warnings, however, some people are simply not taking notice of our posts and/or PMs reminding them of their expected behaviour in AFF.

Two things in particular I feel some of you need to be reminded of;

1. Posts that are disrespectful or insulting to another forum member. Remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a reasoned manner.

2. Posts that are deliberately argumentative or which fail to respect the opinion of another member.

Another one that seems to have crept in more recently is having little digs at the moderation team. Please, stop it now. If you have a problem with how I moderate (or anyone else for that matter) I am more than happy for you to send me a PM to discuss it in a reasonable manner. If you decide that sending me PMs abusing me they will be ignored.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

The world changes, and people's appreciation of things changes with it.

My Dad had a shed full of Junk that "might come in handy one day" and it is surprising how often we would go rummaging and find a useful bit for some little repair or project. Dad was a bit obsessive about such things, but he had the space. We seem to have lost the space, necessity, and desire to tinker and repair things.

I have worked with a large cross-section of people, and I have adult kids of my own. I can count the car enthusiasts on one hand, and they are all of my generation or older.

But as I've said, our population has grown, and it only takes a comparative few to keep the flames alive.

The one thing that appals me, in regards to potential collectibles, is the people who have bought something like a GT-E, GT-P, or Ltd edition, used it as a family hack for 10 years pounding the life out of it, but now expect top-dollar "cos its rare". Sadly, those cars are headed to the wreckers, and it gives an insight into why so few of the rare cars actually survived.

If you're wondering what to buy now for future "collectability," then the answer is simple. Buy what you love and can afford to keep.
But if you're really hung-up on having something others may want someday, then I would suggest big-bangers around the 20 year old mark.
EF/EL & AU XR8's and V8 Montys, equivalent Commodes, keep an eye on the price of 300C's as they start to drift into this bracket.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:20 AM   #38
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I never collected car or parts because one day I expected to make a profit, they where just things I wanted to fix, restore, modify or drive. Some of them where real cheap clunkers that no one else wanted. I guess it was my passion that made me decide which to buy, not market value. Today my collection is quite valuable I guess, wasn't intended to be, it's just what I like.
I don't see car flippers selling collector cars for profit as being any value to the hobby, they are just skimming profits for themselves.
There are just too many people out for the fast buck these days.

Buy or collect for your own passion, not what could be, life is too short for that.

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Old 03-07-2018, 07:49 AM   #39
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Wash ya mouth out!

I remember the original Camira very fondly?

image

It was a work vehicle and an automatic because one of our staff had a prosthetic leg.

We travelled together for a week from Wagga to Wentworth (Near Mildura) covering a lot of distance at 110kms/h

The further we went the more I loved that little car. It was comfortable and easy to drive.

I never did have anything to do with the later model cars except that Wheels magazine raved about them.

Reminds me of journalists of today who rave about VW and Scoda. Maybe great cars to drive but sometimes they can be a pain in the butt to own, maintain and fight the dealer on 'issues.'
It's a tongue-in-cheek reference .. one of the guys in my motorbike club (VJMC) owned a number of them and loved them. Always ready to defend them when I give him a ribbing.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:38 AM   #40
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Car collecting is all about perceived value and one upmanship; and blokes with too much money.
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Old 03-07-2018, 01:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Recently, I saw a local advert for a ‘Show and shine / Cars and coffee’ event which I thought would be a good way to spend a Sunday morning. Forum members can guess who, and I’ll point.
I am 71, early baby boomer, and have always been a car nut, having lived thorough the ‘glory days’ of Oz cars, and having had my own 70s ‘collectable’ car until 8 years ago when I sold it, reason …… loss of interest, and inability to properly maintain and restore it. But, I still drive and enjoy a late model V8.
The anticipation of the event waned on arrival, where it became apparent that it was disorganised, the cars were locked, and the owners in a small group only interested in themselves. The cars appeared immaculate from a distance, but a closer inspection showed untidy interiors, and little things in the overall presentation of the car, which had me scratching my head about why a proper job could not have been. The onlookers all seemed to be about 50 years old.
Reality bit as I left, wondering if it was me, loosing interest in a life long passion, or legends not being presented as they deserved, or owners not being willing to interact with an ‘outsider’.
I definitely think that the current ‘collectables’ will not be so when the baby boomers fall off the perch, the current generation with ricers will grow out of it as petrol prices rise with shortages of the stuff, and the following generation will be collecting mobile phones, with no interest whatsoever in cars, or other personal transport vehicles.
The future may come, or be forced upon us faster than we anticipate with the ‘collectable car’ being as relevant as a horse and buggy today.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:12 PM   #42
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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I think we need to ask ourselves why cars are collectable?

Let's take (Australian) cars from the 60' / 70's as an example. Are they collectable because they are linked to racing in Australia?

Monaro's
Torana's
Falcon's
Commodore's

Was it Bathurst that made them collectable?

Was it V8's that made them collectable?

Was it 'Limited Editions' that made them collectable?

There are so many other cars out there that are collectable, but they may be in the minority?

Have a look at prices for Escorts, XU1's, Celica's, F100's, Kombi's etc etc

The list just goes on.

IMO there are two reasons why a car is collectable;

1) Someone trying to make money
2) Someone who loves a particular car

...
I had a little think about this.

It has to be the limited editions doesn't it?
HO's, RT's, Cobras, big engined Holdens 327, 350 etc. All in limited numbers.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:36 PM   #43
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I get where you're coming from IRA and i see where these enthusiasts are coming from too, but it should not be called a show and shine it's really just a gathering of like minded car owners. I am just a little younger than you and have always loved cars since i was a boy, inherited the gene from my late father.
Whilst I like car shows , and love motor racing and had many new V8 Fords, I have never had the urge to show them off or join a car club. I was burnt early in the piece when i considered doing so , by a lot of know it alls whose main aim in life seemed to be to put anyone outside their clique, and their cars, down. Since then, never had time for clubs, i look and admire and hang around with a few close mates with Ford cars or allegiances , share good times and good memories about all things Ford, as for the rest ...well who cares. Hopefully i will be able to keep my passion for Fords and my GT till they pry the licence to enjoy them out of my hands.
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Old 03-07-2018, 03:53 PM   #44
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The big question is... In 30 years time, when the majority of cars on our road are electric, and the government making registration of petrol cars harder and more expensive in that era... Will Australian collectables of the 60's and 70's still be that desirable?

Of course "rare" cars will always fetch good money and increase in value, even if they might only be able to be driven on a special permit decades from now.
When the aliens come and inject all of our electronics with nano bots and computer viruses etc, these classics will be the only transport to fight back them aliens and transportation of laser cannons

So worth keeping

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Old 03-07-2018, 04:38 PM   #45
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Above post.....…

Ah haa !!!! A Tom Cruise fan.
(sorry, off subject ….. moderator don't delete ….. we need a bit of silliness )
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:52 PM   #46
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

A few observations and comments

• The fact that people are willing to part with $10k + for a rusty shell in a barn makes me believe nothing can be ruled out or disbelieved. The only thing that is certain is if there is a demand for a thing that can't be met with current supply then the price will increase accordingly

• I reckon about half the people who bought classics in the past 5 years made their purchasing decision based on increases in value between 2007 and 2013 and wanted to get on board with that , not because they had a strong passion for those cars.

• Most of the rest were enthusiasts and probably had them for awhile and bought at a reasonable price and just happily sat and watch their rides appreciate. Glad I decided not to take my vinyl record collection to the tip 15 years ago

• If people are buying classics because they want to relive their childhood, why didn’t they buy them between 1990 and 2000 when they were cheap as chips and nobody wanted them ?. Let's face it, if you were 10 yrs old in 1971 when your Dad had an XY Phase 3 in the driveway at home you would have been 29 in 1990 and most could've easily scrapped together $10 grand to buy one rather than wait until 2007 when they were worth upwards of $150,000.

• Let's say the pessimists are right , those that have funded these classic car purchases from drawing down low interest loans from the equity they had in their homes will be quick to offload their purchases once rates start climbing and the values in their home starts falling, especially if they no longer have a job . The market will become saturated and prices will fall.

• In recent times the market for "would be classics" has been tested with BF Cobras, 5th anniversary GT's, GTF 351's, the first prototype BA GT….the list goes on. I wonder if those that bought new Cobras in 2008 garaged them with zero kms are getting the $120k they were expecting from such a car a few years later, or would they have been better off buying a house in Sydney or Melbourne in 2008 and either living in it, or renting it?
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:30 PM   #47
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- EB1+2 Ghia V8 original condition low KM or exceptional "survivor" condition
- EB1 S-XR8
- EB2 S-XR6 and 8
- ED XR6/8
- ED EF XR6 Wagon

and gasp.... EA S Pack "survivor" or low KM.

All the above cars are flying off all sales sites when they are priced reasonably. Junk that was taken to scrap a couple of years ago or parted out are doing $2k at a minimum if no rust present.

Look out for - rust in inner and outer sills, rear arches. Numbers that don't match. Excessive bog or poor accident repairs. Anything else can be sorted out.

As someone else said, it's all about "perceived value" and then nostalgia early in the piece, then it's just people with too much money wanting the best condition car available. Then we see restorations, better cars coming up. The cars I want to put away now are ones that I fawned over or drove as a 17-22 yo. Now I am a little older, settled with property and have some spare cash, I want the above cars as toys.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:03 PM   #48
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

We all know car acquisition, collecting and values are so dependant on finances. The baby boomers who lived through the seventies, married early and achieved financial security early could purchase some great optioned cars at reasonable prices. I have owned a T3 TE50 for 11 years now and I do hesitate to park it and drive places, but if I was sensible I would have sold it and bought a dual cab. I would rather put kms on the clock than sell it, because we can’t all afford a stable of cars, I’m still the proud owner of a rare factory performance car. Lucky I decided to keep it as I’ve enjoyed it’s comfort and performance and guess what. I paid $27,000 for it in 2007 with 53k on the clock and now it’s got 160km. Work out what it now owes me. You know what killed the Aussie car market. Husbands allowing their wives to buy SUV’s. My 16 yr old daughter drove my TE50 for the first time on her L’s after driving the Pajero and she fell in love with the comfort and performance and soon after asked me if she could inherit it. I suggest we let our young ones experience these classics if we want the next generation to cherish our current pride and joys.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:59 AM   #49
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.
Bang on the money...
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:10 PM   #50
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.
Why buy a high profile car which has people talking, gets news coverage etc which puts you in the spotlight with ‘ill gotten gains’?

Surely there is less conspicuous ways to spend $1m, like buying a crappy one bedroom apartment in the outskirts of Sydney.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:19 PM   #51
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I just finished reading the post on 'sick of fake GT's advertised as real one'. Anyway, one of the posts suggests after baby boomers are gone, so will the values of the cars they loved. Like many others, I watch the second hand car market with great interest and we have all seen over the last decade or so what prices some achieve. I thought this might be a good place to discuss the future of collecting cars, their values and what models people think will be attractive to buyers in 20 & 30 years. The cars I am referring to are the typical Australian 60's & 70's Ford's and Holden plus American muscle cars from the same generation.
SO going back to the OP.
In 20 years time (2038) any car build pre-2008 could be on historic plates (in NSW) correct? Your can start by looking at any BA/BF and 1st run FG's.
And of course T series AU's. There are 1,065 cars on sale 2008, $20-$35,000 on car sales today. Take of SUV's and buses its around 500.
Lots of FPV GT's and Holden SV GTS in the list.
I don't know about 'making money'. Some makes 'keep their value' but I would not have guessed that Mazda MX5's would keep their value when they first came out.
Are you asking how much 60's 70's cars would be worth by then?
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:58 PM   #52
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Sorry U_K, I could have worded the topic a bit better It probably would have been better to ask will the cars from the 60's & 70s continue to maintain their value & interest with future generations? Also, will a mint BA XR6 Turbo manual (as example) be as appealing in 25 years?
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Old 13-07-2018, 09:30 AM   #53
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It's all about who is going to buy what and who can afford it and is it truly worth keeping, a mate has a VC Brock, now the insurance cost he has to fork out must be kept in mine and all, so is it truly worth it for him to keep, now he may like the car and that is another reason why he keeps it as well.
But do we truly make money on our cars, I don't think so.
Look at inflation, one must factor that in as well not just the price that you bought it for and not to mention payed cash for it and have no other investments that are costing you interest.

My Brother said back in 1985 complaining that a HQ GTS was for sale, saying that they were not even that price from new, he could not understand it, I said inflation you idiot, the car still has lost it's true value in reality you know.
Look here a new base FX Holden in 1950 was $2069
1953 FJ $2046
1956 FE $2262
1958 FC $2282
1960 FB $2204
1961 EK $2214
1962 EJ $2102
1963 EH $2102
1965 HD $2140
1966 HR $2140
1968 HK $2215
1969 HT $2326
1970 HG $2370
1972 HQ $2730
1974 HJ $3580 = 31% more than a HQ
1976 HX $5186 = 45% more than a HJ
1978 HZ $6377
1980 VC $7902
1982 VH $9066 = 15% more than a VB
1984 VK $1.1152 = 23% more than a VH
Then we have to factor in all the rest and average workers pay in Hours to buy such at the times as well.

I remember that as a contractor from 1973 to 1983 we charged maybe 20% more over that time when a car went up 200%

So what I came across was many people back in the days of 1950's to even 1980 still did not understand inflation.
I would point out such things in 1980 and people would go mental rejecting such is true, I would say that we have to charge as to keep up with inflation every 3 months or we are fooling ourselves. they wanted me to shut up or treat to bash me up.

I believe it cost one twice as much in Hours worked to buy a FX than it did for one to buy a HR, but the dollar value was much the same. but one could be much the same Hours worked in the years ahead but the dollar value has gone way up.
So one has to think is such a way as well, now average wages will drop in the future, the way this Nation is heading we will be like China before long and who could afford a car let alone have another.

So what to invest in, something only the rich will want and the rest just forget it as an investment. but a passion.
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Old 18-07-2018, 08:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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We all know car acquisition, collecting and values are so dependant on finances. The baby boomers who lived through the seventies, married early and achieved financial security early could purchase some great optioned cars at reasonable prices. I have owned a T3 TE50 for 11 years now and I do hesitate to park it and drive places, but if I was sensible I would have sold it and bought a dual cab. I would rather put kms on the clock than sell it, because we can’t all afford a stable of cars, I’m still the proud owner of a rare factory performance car. Lucky I decided to keep it as I’ve enjoyed it’s comfort and performance and guess what. I paid $27,000 for it in 2007 with 53k on the clock and now it’s got 160km. Work out what it now owes me. You know what killed the Aussie car market. Husbands allowing their wives to buy SUV’s. My 16 yr old daughter drove my TE50 for the first time on her L’s after driving the Pajero and she fell in love with the comfort and performance and soon after asked me if she could inherit it. I suggest we let our young ones experience these classics if we want the next generation to cherish our current pride and joys.
Good post Paul, same thing has happened here with ED Sprint, our son has experienced the character of a manual V8 Australian muscle car in his formative driving, and learned to treat the power with respect. Given the chance I think this younger generation (Z) will collect cars rather than phones unlike those slightly older. The cars will be a measure of success which they are working toward. And, they have had GTA5 and seen the image of 10 car garages as having "made it" in the urban jungle of Los Santos...

As for husbands letting wives decide, this is true, lucky Ford had the Territory, kept the factory going that bit longer.

Mick great post, hardly anyone realises that the currency they are paid in and use is being deliberatley eroded every year as more loans are written... (fractional reserve lending increasing fiat currency supply)
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Old 21-07-2018, 03:25 PM   #55
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

So a bit of a bump to thread,
Looking for FG2 XR6 locally with young one as first car, a couple of things noticed. First of all, the car is a sound choice, lots of safety, size, rugged reliable mechanicals - but we all know that here on these forums.
Secondly, they are thin on the ground! Didn't see one in the dealers, quite a few FG1 with 150-200km, local Ford had no Falcons
Was informed people are hanging on to this model - already...Dealers reckon good low k's examples are clearing really quickly, and just as hard to find in wholesale. Manuals extra quick. "They are going up in price" - seems a bit crazy to hear this, as car depreciation tends to go on much longer than their age at present.

Are people hoarding everyday late model Falcons already?
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Old 21-07-2018, 04:38 PM   #56
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

I say b series fpv and XR series will really be loved in the years ahead, plus all the forced induction models, barra turbo6 and super8.

Buy now as they are getting rarer and rarer (a good one)

When all the scrappy examples hit the junk yards and the mint cars remain, everyone will want one.
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Old 21-07-2018, 06:10 PM   #57
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

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I say b series fpv and XR series will really be loved in the years ahead, plus all the forced induction models, barra turbo6 and super8.

Buy now as they are getting rarer and rarer (a good one)

When all the scrappy examples hit the junk yards and the mint cars remain, everyone will want one.
They will be collectable for sure in the years ahead as will all (to varying degrees) coveted Falcons with heritage imo.

cheers, Maka
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Old 21-07-2018, 06:15 PM   #58
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Supercharged V8 and Turbo F6 FPV only. Take it to the bank
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Old 22-07-2018, 11:22 AM   #59
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

Seems like any 70's Falcon or Kingswood are being scooped up by collectors now.
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Old 22-07-2018, 11:30 PM   #60
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Default Re: Future of Car Collecting

My next car will either be an AUIII XR8 or a BA/F XR6 Turbo - with a manual transmission! Will either of these cars become collectable and/or increase in value? I don't know but I have never owned a v8 or boosted car and I have lusted over both of these cars for years.

There are a lot of Aussie Fords I would like to collect. Whether or not they are desirable to other people is basically irrelevant to me.
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