Territory AWD systems

[BENT_8]

Know of someone looking to buy a Territory AWD and was wondering if theres any point of difference from SX to SZ2 in terms of how they deliver power to each wheel, reliability, things to look out for.
They want to be able to launch/retrieve their boat on slippery/sandy ramps and have had trouble with single spinner RWD's.
I said diesel is cheaper to run but more expensive to maintain but they're not too worried either way.

I was thinking SY2 AWD 4.0L 6A?

[Travesty]

Too old and tired, best bet would be a petrol RWD SZII.

[kypez]

There was a change towards the end that made the AWD an on-demand type system from the previous continuous system. Think it was in the final SZ series that the change came in. For the boat ramp, they might feel a bit of slip before the centre diff engages and the front wheels provide propulsion. I believe the change was made to reduce fuel burn (increase fuel efficiency).

Happy to be corrected here.

[Toiler]

Originally Posted by kypez

There was a change towards the end that made the AWD an on-demand type system from the previous continuous system. Think it was in the final SZ series that the change came in. For the boat ramp, they might feel a bit of slip before the centre diff engages and the front wheels provide propulsion. I believe the change was made to reduce fuel burn (increase fuel efficiency).

Happy to be corrected here.

The SZII AWD is almost always running the front wheels - about 15% traction. If you have the TOD bypass switch you will feel the difference if the front axle is disengaged - the steering becomes lighter.

But "almost" means a sharp hard turn will turn front wheels off temporarily and I seem to remember at low speeds and low throttle it may also be disengaged - engaged at low speeds and light throttle applied - I remember this from when I was looking at mods for snow driving - the mod to lock the transaxle to engage the front wheels at all times ie in the snow need low power low speed traction.

But in any case I never had an issue on boat ramps with my AWD Terry. ie no spinning of rear wheels.

The SZII AWD system is a hack however by the Ford accountants - it could have been much better by including the input shaft output shaft speed sensors but that is history.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kypez

There was a change towards the end that made the AWD an on-demand type system from the previous continuous system. Think it was in the final SZ series that the change came in. For the boat ramp, they might feel a bit of slip before the centre diff engages and the front wheels provide propulsion. I believe the change was made to reduce fuel burn (increase fuel efficiency).

Happy to be corrected here.

Thanks Kypez,

So can I assume up to and including SZ1, drive is directed to all 4 wheels 100% of the time and if so do you know if its an equal balance of power or more rear?

Cheers.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Travesty

Too old and tired, best bet would be a petrol RWD SZII.

I had a SZ1 RWD petrol and it'd spin the right rear pulling my jet ski out on the same sandy ramp with anything more than slight throttle on new tyres, which was why I suggested he look at AWD as he wants a Territory.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Thanks Kypez,



So can I assume up to and including SZ1, drive is directed to all 4 wheels 100% of the time and if so do you know if its an equal balance of power or more rear?



Cheers.

Think it was 38/62 split. It was never symmetrical like the Subaru

[mad2]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Thanks Kypez,

So can I assume up to and including SZ1, drive is directed to all 4 wheels 100% of the time and if so do you know if its an equal balance of power or more rear?

Cheers.

Hi. my SX is AWD with approx 35% drive to the front wheels. the front diff is not a LSD and all wheels driven full time.

just checked an owners manual [SY?] .... the torque split [going by the book] is 38% front and 62% rear.

I was thinking SY2 AWD 4.0L 6A?

with 6sp and the revised front suspension.

[fordomatic]

Here is a list of what I’ve replaced in my SYII Barra in the last 3 years (now at 180km). Another forum member who is my mate also had an SYII and replaced similar things. If you can’t work on these cars yourself, stay away.

Useless offroad but I’ve found mine good in the sand and stable on dirt roads.

Rebuilt rear diff
New fuel pump
New power steering pump
New steering rack
New fuel pump
Front diff pinion seal
New tailshaft
New starter motor
New gear selector cable
New oil pressure switch
Rebuilt front brake calipers
New headlining
Deleted heat exchanger
New Bendix rotors and pads at 100km
3 new door actuators
New drivers window switch
New tailgate hinges
New drivers abs sensor
New rear lower control arm bushes
New rear upper control arm bushes
New front sway bar links
New rear diff bushes and rebush whole rear cradle
New front diff bushes
New upper ball joints
New lower ball joints
New suspension and springs at 100km

[kypez]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Here is a list of what I’ve replaced in my SYII Barra in the last 3 years (now at 180km). Another forum member who is my mate also had an SYII and replaced similar things. If you can’t work on these cars yourself, stay away.

Useless offroad but I’ve found mine good in the sand and stable on dirt roads.

Rebuilt rear diff
New fuel pump
New power steering pump
New steering rack
New fuel pump
Front diff pinion seal
New tailshaft
New starter motor
New gear selector cable
New oil pressure switch
Rebuilt front brake calipers
New headlining
Deleted heat exchanger
New Bendix rotors and pads at 100km
3 new door actuators
New drivers window switch
New tailgate hinges
New drivers abs sensor
New rear lower control arm bushes
New rear upper control arm bushes
New front sway bar links
New rear diff bushes and rebush whole rear cradle
New front diff bushes
New upper ball joints
New lower ball joints
New suspension and springs at 100km

Yikes!!

[Sprintey]

SX AWD petrol full time 38/62
SY AWD petrol full time 38/62
SYII AWD petrol full time 38/62

SZ AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
SZII AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
No petrol SZ or SZII AWD. More's the pity.

SYII is king of the Territories as it gets proper AWD and had the good ball joints at the front.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

SX AWD petrol full time 38/62
SY AWD petrol full time 38/62
SYII AWD petrol full time 38/62

SZ AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
SZII AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
No petrol SZ or SZII AWD. More's the pity.

SYII is king of the Territories as it gets proper AWD and had the good ball joints at the front.

This was my thoughts too,.
SY2, TS, AWD, BARRA, 6HP26.

[Toiler]

Originally Posted by kypez

. . It was never symmetrical like the Subaru

Not really relevant here I know but I get annoyed by the Subaru marketing . .
Pretty sure that the manual gearbox only was/is 50/50
The slush boxes were (at least in the 2000 model I had) 30 front and 70 rear
. . . marketing = never let the truth get in the way of a good story

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Toiler

Not really relevant here I know but I get annoyed by the Subaru marketing . .

Pretty sure that the manual gearbox only was/is 50/50

The slush boxes were (at least in the 2000 model I had) 30 front and 70 rear

. . . marketing = never let the truth get in the way of a good story

Thank you! Learnt something new.

My comment was more that it was at least offered on Subaru models vs it never being an option in the Territory.

[Dr Smith]

I've had 4 and while I read fordomatics pain, never had one issue as listed apart from rear diff replaced under warranty.
Our current one is a 2016 built AWD Titanium diesel with 75K km...we've never gone off-road and the most I've towed with it is right on max tow rating 1600kg (tongue not h/duty hitch) and does it with ease.

[Toiler]

Attached from my Forscan records. The bottom trace is the TOD clutch operation on my SZII AWD. You can see the engagement of the front wheels when taking off in first gear. Exactly what is required on a slippery boat ramp.

[mad2]

the 'only' thing differant with my SX .. it has the 4.10:1 diff ratios . . for a standard motor it helps it get up to speed

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

SX AWD petrol full time 38/62
SY AWD petrol full time 38/62
SYII AWD petrol full time 38/62

SZ AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
SZII AWD diesel Haldex, will declutch when stopped to improve fuel economy.
No petrol SZ or SZII AWD. More's the pity.

SYII is king of the Territories as it gets proper AWD and had the good ball joints at the front.

Came here to say the same thing.

SX through SY II had a permanent AWD system.

That changed for SZ with the introduction of the diesel engine and Ford-build 6R80 6-speed auto. As mentioned, it was a part-time AWD system that disconnected at rest, Ford saying it was for refinement and fuel economy. There was no AWD petrol SZ, from what I gather, they rationalized AWD to the diesel to save developing a specific version for the Barra + ZF 6-speed combo, and/or not wanting to put the 6R80 behind the 4.0 engine.

[Citroënbender]

From memory the SZ-on diesel AWD had greatest towing capacity at 2700kg vs 2300 for petrol and diesel RWD models.

[Toiler]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

From memory the SZ-on diesel AWD had greatest towing capacity at 2700kg vs 2300 for petrol and diesel RWD models.

Correct. With proviso. WDH mandatory over 1600kg (weak rear axle).
The increase from 2300 to 2700 presumably is due to the assist from the front axle during takeoff - reducing load on the diff?

[ben5]

Originally Posted by Toiler

Not really relevant here I know but I get annoyed by the Subaru marketing . . Pretty sure that the manual gearbox only was/is 50/50The slush boxes were (at least in the 2000 model I had) 30 front and 70 rear . . . marketing = never let the truth get in the way of a good story

"Symmetrical AWD" was never about even front/rear torque bias...https://www.sportsubaru.com/why-all-wheel-drive-.htm

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by ben5

"Symmetrical AWD" was never about even front/rear torque bias...https://www.sportsubaru.com/why-all-wheel-drive-.htm

Correct, it was about how the whole layout of the powertrain. In that I mean if you drew a line down the middle of the car front to rear, from centre of the crankshaft to the centre of the rear diff.





The unique NS layout of the boxer engine that is slung so far forward with the gearbox being a transaxle is where the symmetrical part comes in. A transverse engine/driveline can't do that.