Members 1/4 times from Willowbank - Page 2

sbutler · 02-01-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylox

Do you know what the hurricain's are worth ??? no info on the web site...

and still open to any other ideas people may have....

there no cheaper than the others I would think $500 to $600 would be around the mark. We have had all types of extractors, [eg] d phillipo, pacemaker, herrod,HM and the hurricains beat all of them for KWs and torque...... ;)

Noddy · 02-01-2005, 01:34 AM

Sylox are the pacemaker comp extractors you have four into one or tri-y?? Firefox had pacey 4 into 1 on his t3, it is comon trait that these don't work on windsors, losing bottom end torque, even worse on a auto. I have a set of Hurricanes sitting on my workbench waiting to be fitted to my t3. Im eagar to see the results

Sylox · 02-01-2005, 11:01 AM

They are 4 into 1 thats what the comp series are.

I'm going to order a set of Hurricanes tri Y's on Tuesday and we'll see what happens then I guess.....

UNR8D · 02-01-2005, 12:52 PM

keep us posted sylox id be interested to see the results.

i run a 15.301 @149kmh willowbank raceway last year in september so not the best for cold air as the track temp was 29degrees.

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 01:17 PM

For comparison Ignition has Pacemaker Comps on his auto 165kw EL Ghia, even with the standard HO inlet, E7's, 3.45 LSD and nearly 200000k on the odo he was running 14.8's at Willow..
I am not doubting anyones experience at all, but going by Paul's sub 15's from his luxo barge with the Paccie Comps makes me think it might be something other than the 4:1 headers or even a combination of things that is the root of your problem...

Noddy · 02-01-2005, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylox

They are 4 into 1 thats what the comp series are.

I'm going to order a set of Hurricanes tri Y's on Tuesday and we'll see what happens then I guess.....

You WILL pickup torque with these pipes (tri-y), there are two size primaries, 1.5inch and 1.5/8ths, purchase the 1.5inch primary size. They are not as pretty to look at compared to the Pacemakers and the welding is not as well finished off in some places but they do have the runs on the board with 400m times and improved driveability reported from several FF members. ;)

I am thinking of having mine hpc coated, has anyone had their pipes done and are the benifits worth the cost?

Sox · 02-01-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylox

<snip>
I can honestly say I felt F-All difference after having the 3.9's fitted except for earlier gear changes, tailshaft problems etc. There was no Holy crap increase in acceleration.:(

Whats everyones thoughts now. The chip looks like it has taken a minimal 2 10ths off but the 3.9s have left the 60ft basicly the same. It should of given it a huge wake up i would of thought

used:
Where should I direct my attention to fix this problem in my ute that clearly seems to be there???

As you say, the 0.2 sec is most likely due to the chip, as the 3.9 gears appear to have done nothing at all. This is clearly evident by the lack of improvement in 60' times. MPH is slightly up, again because of the chip.

Something is very wrong with the low end power of your setup, and I'm not confident that it's the extractors. Whilst good headers will improve low down power, the 3.9 gears should have improved 60' times. Something else is wrong here, though I don't know what as yet.

3.9 gears should provide easy wheelspin from a standing start, and you also said you have no traction problems

Have you any more details and history of the car?

Rick.

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

As you say, the 0.2 sec is most likely due to the chip, as the 3.9 gears appear to have done nothing at all. This is clearly evident by the lack of improvement in 60' times. MPH is slightly up, again because of the chip.

Something is very wrong with the low end power of your setup, and I'm not confident that it's the extractors. Whilst good headers will improve low down power, the 3.9 gears should have improved 60' times. Something else is wrong here, though I don't know what as yet.

3.9 gears should provide easy wheelspin from a standing start, and you also said you have no traction problems

Have you any more details and history of the car?

Rick.

A quick question but would the dyno runs not have picked up the lack of torque, like a kick in the curve or something? To have 159kw on tap and tuned properly (as I imagine the chip is spot on) surely it would be quite a bullet?

Sox · 02-01-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

A quick question but would the dyno runs not have picked up the lack of torque, like a kick in the curve or something? To have 159kw on tap and tuned properly (as I imagine the chip is spot on) surely it would be quite a bullet?

Agreed, and yes I do believe that a dyno run may have missed something, as most runs are started at 2000rpm and above.
The problems appear to be below 2000-2500rpm.

What's needed is an off idle or at least from say 1200rpm dyno run, with mixtures.

Rick.

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 03:27 PM

hmm perplexing... as Sylox stated he launches at 1750rpm as the tyres will smoke at 1800rpm, it can't be that torque deprived... can it? A static burnout at 1800rpm is good, if the torque curve was that outta wack surely it would just bog down??

Just thinking aloud here

Casper · 02-01-2005, 03:30 PM

Couldnt be so stupid as the brakes dragging a bit? That would kill the start real well.

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 03:37 PM

Casper, i was thinking along the same lines...
Start with the obvious things first
This is more TQE stuff, but are you getting WOT? i know the i6 loves to stretch the accel cable but i thought that was more from age than anything???

Sox · 02-01-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

hmm perplexing... as Sylox stated he launches at 1750rpm as the tyres will smoke at 1800rpm, it can't be that torque deprived... can it? A static burnout at 1800rpm is good, if the torque curve was that outta wack surely it would just bog down??

Just thinking aloud here

Well, he said 'wheelspin' occurs at 1800rpm, a small amount of wheel spin whilst stalling it up is normal, it's just a product of the convertors 'stall speed'.

Achieving 'some' wheelspin and doing a smoking burnout are two different things.

My folks stock standard AU I6 wagon will wheel spin at around those revs when stalling it up.

Rick.

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

Well, he said 'wheelspin' occurs at 1800rpm, a small amount of wheels spin whilst stalling it up is normal.

Achieving 'some' wheelspin and doing a big burnout are two different things.

My folks stock standard AU I6 wagon will wheel spin at around those revs when stalling it up.

Rick.

that is sorta the arguement i am trying to make, if a stock i6 with 357nm@3000 rpm can do it, wouldn't that also mean Syloxs' torque must be atleast comparable to that? A significant amount of nm under that and it wouldn't be capable of any spin, would it not? If it was that poor, wouldn't the engine just labour and bog down?

**Stav** · 02-01-2005, 04:25 PM

Are you running iridium spark plugs? Did a 3.9 ratio definatley go in?]

Racecraft · 02-01-2005, 04:33 PM

I am curious to see what the issue/s are when he gets it sorted,
The chip and 3.9s/tailshaft SHOULD of produced alot better bang for buck...
Well it only emphasis the arguement that a dyno chart is only good for tuning and not much to brag over..

Sox · 02-01-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

that is sorta the arguement i am trying to make, if a stock i6 with 357nm@3000 rpm can do it, wouldn't that also mean Syloxs' torque must be atleast comparable to that?

Probably not even as high, considering the 3.9 gears.

Rick.

AUIIIXR8 · 02-01-2005, 07:33 PM

With your future plans you will grow into those big paceys. They will be costing you some torque now but a cam upgrade will have them agreeing more. Stall and cam. My ute runs a 2500-2800 stall. Look at your dyno graph and find peak torque and launch from just below it and see if the 60ft improves. 2 tenths from a chip is a reasonable gain.
We know that a 14.4 or less is highly likley with a cam and stall change. The 3.9's will be much better when the engine isn't running out of puff after 4500 rpm.
And i'm looking at a couple upgrades before the turbo. When the heads come off for decomp i'll get the inlet ported to match the heads. I'll get the spacer for the manifold (this will yeald a small torque increase for you and help keep the upper cool). I'm also contemplating a 70mm T/B.

AUIIIXR8 · 02-01-2005, 07:45 PM

Can't get accurate dyno reading with an auto before the torque converter locks up properly. So dyno readings from 1200 rpm are no good esp for torque sadly.
the 5-600 bucks can be spent better elsewhere in your case Andrew. This is only my 2 cents. But small primaries will hold you back later on.

Sorry i had forgotten to put Chip in my sig fixing that now!!!

oops i might have spoken too soon. I just checked my extractors and they're
4-2-1. Yes they're paceys. What does AUGHIAV8 run? He's run a 14.3. with cam and 3.23 diff the only differences.

yobboford · 02-01-2005, 09:19 PM

hey all,

well you got me scratching my head, but i would be very interested to find out what the problem end's up being.

i am hoping to throw some 3.9's and extractors in mine soon, do you know what revs you were pulling over the finish line?

i have an eb xr8 auto, running 15.10 @ 92.75mph, also hoping to crack the 14's soon. that is with au manifold and tb and maf and injectors, ported e7's, 1.72 roller rockers, std cam, std headers, shift kitted auto, 3.27 diff, 2.5 single exhaust.

Sylox · 02-01-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Are you running iridium spark plugs? Did a 3.9 ratio definatley go in?]

yep denso iridium plugs. And yes the 3.9's definately went in.

Sylox · 02-01-2005, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sox

As you say, the 0.2 sec is most likely due to the chip, as the 3.9 gears appear to have done nothing at all. This is clearly evident by the lack of improvement in 60' times. MPH is slightly up, again because of the chip.

Something is very wrong with the low end power of your setup, and I'm not confident that it's the extractors. Whilst good headers will improve low down power, the 3.9 gears should have improved 60' times. Something else is wrong here, though I don't know what as yet.

3.9 gears should provide easy wheelspin from a standing start, and you also said you have no traction problems

Have you any more details and history of the car?

Rick.

Previous owner was a guy in his late 40's. Full log books and was stock as a rock when i got it. You after anything in particular???

Sylox · 02-01-2005, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racecraft

Casper, i was thinking along the same lines...
Start with the obvious things first
This is more TQE stuff, but are you getting WOT? i know the i6 loves to stretch the accel cable but i thought that was more from age than anything???

Yep definately getting WOT checked that one first off

Sox · 02-01-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylox

Previous owner was a guy in his late 40's. Full log books and was stock as a rock when i got it. You after anything in particular???

Not really, just clues which may help determine what's going on.

Rick.

03-01-2005, 03:30 AM

I am not sure that I can be of much help here.

I'd caution against a 3.9 diff in a car that isn't going to rev too hard. I've seen cars slow down considerably from going to a diff that is too short. Most Falcons would run better times on 3.45 or 3.7 diff ratios, rather than anything shorter. If you have the right cam and can rev to 7000+rpm then a 3.9 is ok. Otherwise you would find that the car would be reaching top speed well before the finish line and therefore hurting your ET.

We have just built a new combo for the dragster and had our first outing last Monday. We are now discussing a diff change. The reason being that we hit top speed by 1000' doing 125mph on 5800rpm and sit at 125mph for the rest of the track.

Just my 2c.

Sox · 03-01-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitome

I am not sure that I can be of much help here.

I'd caution against a 3.9 diff in a car that isn't going to rev too hard. I've seen cars slow down considerably from going to a diff that is too short. Most Falcons would run better times on 3.45 or 3.7 diff ratios, rather than anything shorter. If you have the right cam and can rev to 7000+rpm then a 3.9 is ok. Otherwise you would find that the car would be reaching top speed well before the finish line and therefore hurting your ET.

We have just built a new combo for the dragster and had our first outing last Monday. We are now discussing a diff change. The reason being that we hit top speed by 1000' doing 125mph on 5800rpm and sit at 125mph for the rest of the track.

Just my 2c.

He wouldn't even be close to top speed with the 3.9's, 4th gear is around 0.68 in those things. It would still manage 200kph at 6000rpm, and he's only achieving around 150kph. My bet is that he's just about redlining 3rd gear across the line.

In any case, even if he was running out of puff in the top end, his 60' times still should have been much better than the standad gearing.

Rick.

Sylox · 03-01-2005, 11:16 AM

Your right Sox cross the line at 149kph and still have a bit more I could push to in 3rd.
So I'm not losing time by having to go to 4th 50m short of the line either. But none of that is relevant to the 60ft times.
Tom your suggestion of going through the power band to quickly is valid however. My times havent decreased but rather the 60ft has stayed the same and the 1/4 is a little quicker due to the better tune.

AUIIIXR8 · 03-01-2005, 12:46 PM

What are your plans over the next 1 year with the Ute and it's engine?

Sylox · 03-01-2005, 01:55 PM

Possibility of a cam but not for certian...

The final goal is T56 - Crate motor (if a 351 sportsman block will go) if not 347 stroker with alloy heads etc - superchager.
But thats still 2 - 3 yrs off eventuating which is why I want to get things running right now

AUIIIXR8 · 04-01-2005, 12:18 PM

Well that'll make it go! I'd only change ONE thing..... Turbo not S/c ;).

I should have taken you for a burl in mine so you could feel what the tranny feels like. Trans shift kit, stall and cam = low 14's! Most likley lower than mine with that diff and such. 2030 or bigger if manners at idle aren't as much of an issue anymore. The engine will be a nice one and will keep you happier until you get the crate going. If not you could even put the T or S/c on it. Boost will open up the power and torque curves plenty so that the 3.9's have lots of room to play with.

Your Ute is just a weapon in the making mate. All the steps you've taken WILL pay off once you complete the couple of steps left that make the combo work.