Future of Car Collecting

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

The 80’s saw car designs square off, sharp edges boxy deaigns, just not really my thing. The 90’s through to about 2005+ has to be the worst era of car design ever. Mechanically great cars but totally bland home appliance type designs.

I think there are some pretty cool cars in the 90's and 2000's. Sure most are boring appliances, but is there any time in history where all cars were cool and none were just boring appliances?

Yes I like 50's and 70's cars a lot, but I bet there are cars from this era that I don't even know about because nobody bothered saving them.

[Gothefalcon]

I reckon that most of the cars that are now considered "collectable" only really become financially so, after they reach about 40yrs old !??
This would be because, by then, there'd be very few good examples left.. so if you want to buy a good one, you have to pay more for it !

Based on that theory... if you want to buy into this "30yrs from now" collectables market... you just need to buy something about 10yrs old now... and look after it for the next 30yrs (lets face it... that's how a lot of the "original" 40yr old collectables became worth so much in the first place)

All you need is a good place to store it/them

D

[Beastie]

I think we need to ask ourselves why cars are collectable?

Let's take (Australian) cars from the 60' / 70's as an example. Are they collectable because they are linked to racing in Australia?

Monaro's
Torana's
Falcon's
Commodore's

Was it Bathurst that made them collectable?

Was it V8's that made them collectable?

Was it 'Limited Editions' that made them collectable?

There are so many other cars out there that are collectable, but they may be in the minority?

Have a look at prices for Escorts, XU1's, Celica's, F100's, Kombi's etc etc

The list just goes on.

IMO there are two reasons why a car is collectable;

1) Someone trying to make money
2) Someone who loves a particular car

...

[Swordie]

AUIII XR8 manual will be worth keeping. XR AU styling will become more admired as time goes buy.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Beastie

I think we need to ask ourselves why cars are collectable?

Let's take (Australian) cars from the 60' / 70's as an example. Are they collectable because they are linked to racing in Australia?

Monaro's
Torana's
Falcon's
Commodore's

Was it Bathurst that made them collectable?

Was it V8's that made them collectable?

Was it 'Limited Editions' that made them collectable?

There are so many other cars out there that are collectable, but they may be in the minority?

Have a look at prices for Escorts, XU1's, Celica's, F100's, Kombi's etc etc

The list just goes on.

IMO there are two reasons why a car is collectable;

1) Someone trying to make money
2) Someone who loves a particular car

...

Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.

[saam]

I also agree the 60s and 70s style cars will keep being collectable for quite some time yet.

I mean the kids of today could always put electric motors in them if they are that way inclined....

I have always wondered myself on how long can the candle burn on 60s, 70s model cars

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.

Hi Billy (slowsnake),

I don't subscribe to that theory one bit...

You have made it very clear in previous posts / threads that you are not a fan of the "X Series" cars and how you can build a GT for <$30K...

This is not what this thread is about...

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by saam

I also agree the 60s and 70s style cars will keep being collectable for quite some time yet.

I mean the kids of today could always put electric motors in them if they are that way inclined....

I have always wondered myself on how long can the candle burn on 60s, 70s model cars

Hello,
The candle will burn forever,but it depends what candle you are referring to?
We all know of at least one person in our lives whose " toys " totally consume their lives,I know what folk earn as a weekly wage or on a salary who always seem to live beyond their means,I don't wonder anymore,I just ask em straight out now..."where the hell does a tradesman get the cabbage from"...or "did you win lotto?"...or did "a rich relo die"...some folk just have to hide their income,only an idiot would pay one million for a car that cost $5000, and only has a market in Australia?..or New Zealand?..especially if they can't stick the million in the bank!

Cheers Billy.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
The candle will burn forever,but it depends what candle you are referring to?
We all know of at least one person in our lives whose " toys " totally consume their lives,I know what folk earn as a weekly wage or on a salary who always seem to live beyond their means,I don't wonder anymore,I just ask em straight out now..."where the hell does a tradesman get the cabbage from"...or "did you win lotto?"...or did "a rich relo die"...some folk just have to hide their income,only an idiot would pay one million for a car that cost $5000, and only has a market in Australia?..or New Zealand?

Cheers Billy.

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.

More B.S from Billy.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by Beastie

Hi Billy (slowsnake),

I don't subscribe to that theory one bit...

You have made it very clear in previous posts / threads that you are not a fan of the "X Series" cars and how you can build a GT for <$30K...

This is not what this thread is about...

Hello,
Didn't mean to upset anyone,but I answered "what makes a car collectable?"..it is in the posts,well people make cars collectable,folk with lots of income to get rid off,its a valid point!

Cheers Billy.

[Fordblue1000]

Interesting thread this one.

For me, i have never bought cars with collectibility in mind.

I have 4 cars.

Xb coupe. 1st car i bought. Had it coming up to 30 years. 1 resto done by me in the backyard. Gets driven at times.

P6 ltd. Had it 10 years. Just love the luxury from back in the day.

78 escort. Only had it a few years. Just came upon it and been happy with it since .

22 model t. Had this for about 25 years now. Its a great little runabout.

Funny thing is when i get the historic log signed it turns out the model t is the most frequently used out of all of them. And this has no doors, starter - yep. Stalling at the lights is a bugga - no real brakes, and about the hardest thing to drive.
But i can guarrentee that when i do, all the stresses in life are gone for those moments. Sure at times it would be nice to go 40klms an hour, but why hurry anyways?

The cycles of collectable cars will rise and fall across the range of vehicles.

We will see a trend on the next generation moving towards the jap market for things like wrx, evos, skylines and that stuff. Thats what they all grew up wanting. And these prices are peanuts as well. Just like the 70s cars in the mid 90s...

To me the return i get from my so called investments is getting away from life and just going to the shops or bunnings in any one of these toys. I probably will never sell any of them anyways so to me they are not worth anything at all!



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[PG2]

PLEASE READ AND DON'T IGNORE

Good Morning Everyone

I've gotten up at 2.30 in the morning in the freezing cold and thought I would have a look what's going on in AFF.

Instead of sitting here enjoying other people's opinions, I have had to sit here and delete posts.



Ladies and Gentlemen, I am starting to get sick of deleting posts that breach T&Cs. If the moderation team post something about how the thread is heading please take notice - they are nothing more than trying to give out a friendly reminder that some of you may be getting near to crossing the line.

If you have unintentionally posted something or we feel that you are having a bad day and it is out of character we will delete it and send you a PM outlining why.

The last thing the moderators in this area want to do is hand out warnings, however, some people are simply not taking notice of our posts and/or PMs reminding them of their expected behaviour in AFF.

Two things in particular I feel some of you need to be reminded of;

1. Posts that are disrespectful or insulting to another forum member. Remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a reasoned manner.

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[Crazy Dazz]

The world changes, and people's appreciation of things changes with it.

My Dad had a shed full of Junk that "might come in handy one day" and it is surprising how often we would go rummaging and find a useful bit for some little repair or project. Dad was a bit obsessive about such things, but he had the space. We seem to have lost the space, necessity, and desire to tinker and repair things.

I have worked with a large cross-section of people, and I have adult kids of my own. I can count the car enthusiasts on one hand, and they are all of my generation or older.

But as I've said, our population has grown, and it only takes a comparative few to keep the flames alive.

The one thing that appals me, in regards to potential collectibles, is the people who have bought something like a GT-E, GT-P, or Ltd edition, used it as a family hack for 10 years pounding the life out of it, but now expect top-dollar "cos its rare". Sadly, those cars are headed to the wreckers, and it gives an insight into why so few of the rare cars actually survived.

If you're wondering what to buy now for future "collectability," then the answer is simple. Buy what you love and can afford to keep.
But if you're really hung-up on having something others may want someday, then I would suggest big-bangers around the 20 year old mark.
EF/EL & AU XR8's and V8 Montys, equivalent Commodes, keep an eye on the price of 300C's as they start to drift into this bracket.

[yearby]

I never collected car or parts because one day I expected to make a profit, they where just things I wanted to fix, restore, modify or drive. Some of them where real cheap clunkers that no one else wanted. I guess it was my passion that made me decide which to buy, not market value. Today my collection is quite valuable I guess, wasn't intended to be, it's just what I like.
I don't see car flippers selling collector cars for profit as being any value to the hobby, they are just skimming profits for themselves.
There are just too many people out for the fast buck these days.

Buy or collect for your own passion, not what could be, life is too short for that.

Peter

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Cav

Wash ya mouth out!

I remember the original Camira very fondly?

image

It was a work vehicle and an automatic because one of our staff had a prosthetic leg.

We travelled together for a week from Wagga to Wentworth (Near Mildura) covering a lot of distance at 110kms/h

The further we went the more I loved that little car. It was comfortable and easy to drive.

I never did have anything to do with the later model cars except that Wheels magazine raved about them.

Reminds me of journalists of today who rave about VW and Scoda. Maybe great cars to drive but sometimes they can be a pain in the butt to own, maintain and fight the dealer on 'issues.'

It's a tongue-in-cheek reference .. one of the guys in my motorbike club (VJMC) owned a number of them and loved them. Always ready to defend them when I give him a ribbing.

[Cav]

Car collecting is all about perceived value and one upmanship; and blokes with too much money.

[lra]

Recently, I saw a local advert for a ‘Show and shine / Cars and coffee’ event which I thought would be a good way to spend a Sunday morning. Forum members can guess who, and I’ll point.
I am 71, early baby boomer, and have always been a car nut, having lived thorough the ‘glory days’ of Oz cars, and having had my own 70s ‘collectable’ car until 8 years ago when I sold it, reason …… loss of interest, and inability to properly maintain and restore it. But, I still drive and enjoy a late model V8.
The anticipation of the event waned on arrival, where it became apparent that it was disorganised, the cars were locked, and the owners in a small group only interested in themselves. The cars appeared immaculate from a distance, but a closer inspection showed untidy interiors, and little things in the overall presentation of the car, which had me scratching my head about why a proper job could not have been. The onlookers all seemed to be about 50 years old.
Reality bit as I left, wondering if it was me, loosing interest in a life long passion, or legends not being presented as they deserved, or owners not being willing to interact with an ‘outsider’.
I definitely think that the current ‘collectables’ will not be so when the baby boomers fall off the perch, the current generation with ricers will grow out of it as petrol prices rise with shortages of the stuff, and the following generation will be collecting mobile phones, with no interest whatsoever in cars, or other personal transport vehicles.
The future may come, or be forced upon us faster than we anticipate with the ‘collectable car’ being as relevant as a horse and buggy today.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Beastie

I think we need to ask ourselves why cars are collectable?

Let's take (Australian) cars from the 60' / 70's as an example. Are they collectable because they are linked to racing in Australia?

Monaro's
Torana's
Falcon's
Commodore's

Was it Bathurst that made them collectable?

Was it V8's that made them collectable?

Was it 'Limited Editions' that made them collectable?

There are so many other cars out there that are collectable, but they may be in the minority?

Have a look at prices for Escorts, XU1's, Celica's, F100's, Kombi's etc etc

The list just goes on.

IMO there are two reasons why a car is collectable;

1) Someone trying to make money
2) Someone who loves a particular car

...

I had a little think about this.

It has to be the limited editions doesn't it?
HO's, RT's, Cobras, big engined Holdens 327, 350 etc. All in limited numbers.

[GT450]

I get where you're coming from IRA and i see where these enthusiasts are coming from too, but it should not be called a show and shine it's really just a gathering of like minded car owners. I am just a little younger than you and have always loved cars since i was a boy, inherited the gene from my late father.
Whilst I like car shows , and love motor racing and had many new V8 Fords, I have never had the urge to show them off or join a car club. I was burnt early in the piece when i considered doing so , by a lot of know it alls whose main aim in life seemed to be to put anyone outside their clique, and their cars, down. Since then, never had time for clubs, i look and admire and hang around with a few close mates with Ford cars or allegiances , share good times and good memories about all things Ford, as for the rest ...well who cares. Hopefully i will be able to keep my passion for Fords and my GT till they pry the licence to enjoy them out of my hands.

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by GO FURTHER

The big question is... In 30 years time, when the majority of cars on our road are electric, and the government making registration of petrol cars harder and more expensive in that era... Will Australian collectables of the 60's and 70's still be that desirable?

Of course "rare" cars will always fetch good money and increase in value, even if they might only be able to be driven on a special permit decades from now.

When the aliens come and inject all of our electronics with nano bots and computer viruses etc, these classics will be the only transport to fight back them aliens and transportation of laser cannons

So worth keeping

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[lra]

Above post.....…

Ah haa !!!! A Tom Cruise fan.
(sorry, off subject ….. moderator don't delete ….. we need a bit of silliness )

[GT0132]

A few observations and comments

• The fact that people are willing to part with $10k + for a rusty shell in a barn makes me believe nothing can be ruled out or disbelieved. The only thing that is certain is if there is a demand for a thing that can't be met with current supply then the price will increase accordingly

• I reckon about half the people who bought classics in the past 5 years made their purchasing decision based on increases in value between 2007 and 2013 and wanted to get on board with that , not because they had a strong passion for those cars.

• Most of the rest were enthusiasts and probably had them for awhile and bought at a reasonable price and just happily sat and watch their rides appreciate. Glad I decided not to take my vinyl record collection to the tip 15 years ago

• If people are buying classics because they want to relive their childhood, why didn’t they buy them between 1990 and 2000 when they were cheap as chips and nobody wanted them ?. Let's face it, if you were 10 yrs old in 1971 when your Dad had an XY Phase 3 in the driveway at home you would have been 29 in 1990 and most could've easily scrapped together $10 grand to buy one rather than wait until 2007 when they were worth upwards of $150,000.

• Let's say the pessimists are right , those that have funded these classic car purchases from drawing down low interest loans from the equity they had in their homes will be quick to offload their purchases once rates start climbing and the values in their home starts falling, especially if they no longer have a job . The market will become saturated and prices will fall.

• In recent times the market for "would be classics" has been tested with BF Cobras, 5th anniversary GT's, GTF 351's, the first prototype BA GT….the list goes on. I wonder if those that bought new Cobras in 2008 garaged them with zero kms are getting the $120k they were expecting from such a car a few years later, or would they have been better off buying a house in Sydney or Melbourne in 2008 and either living in it, or renting it?

[FPV414]

- EB1+2 Ghia V8 original condition low KM or exceptional "survivor" condition
- EB1 S-XR8
- EB2 S-XR6 and 8
- ED XR6/8
- ED EF XR6 Wagon

and gasp.... EA S Pack "survivor" or low KM.

All the above cars are flying off all sales sites when they are priced reasonably. Junk that was taken to scrap a couple of years ago or parted out are doing $2k at a minimum if no rust present.

Look out for - rust in inner and outer sills, rear arches. Numbers that don't match. Excessive bog or poor accident repairs. Anything else can be sorted out.

As someone else said, it's all about "perceived value" and then nostalgia early in the piece, then it's just people with too much money wanting the best condition car available. Then we see restorations, better cars coming up. The cars I want to put away now are ones that I fawned over or drove as a 17-22 yo. Now I am a little older, settled with property and have some spare cash, I want the above cars as toys.

[Paul Knowles]

We all know car acquisition, collecting and values are so dependant on finances. The baby boomers who lived through the seventies, married early and achieved financial security early could purchase some great optioned cars at reasonable prices. I have owned a T3 TE50 for 11 years now and I do hesitate to park it and drive places, but if I was sensible I would have sold it and bought a dual cab. I would rather put kms on the clock than sell it, because we can’t all afford a stable of cars, I’m still the proud owner of a rare factory performance car. Lucky I decided to keep it as I’ve enjoyed it’s comfort and performance and guess what. I paid $27,000 for it in 2007 with 53k on the clock and now it’s got 160km. Work out what it now owes me. You know what killed the Aussie car market. Husbands allowing their wives to buy SUV’s. My 16 yr old daughter drove my TE50 for the first time on her L’s after driving the Pajero and she fell in love with the comfort and performance and soon after asked me if she could inherit it. I suggest we let our young ones experience these classics if we want the next generation to cherish our current pride and joys.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.

Bang on the money...

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Bang on the money...

Hello,
Why thank you Mr Smith,hope you have a nice day!

Cheers Billy.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Hello,
Because certain groups of people or individuals have to get rid of " ill gotten gains ".
Its called money laundering,and I am not joking one bit,what better way to launder a million bucks??..on something you can build for 30+ thou???...

Cheers Billy.

Why buy a high profile car which has people talking, gets news coverage etc which puts you in the spotlight with ‘ill gotten gains’?

Surely there is less conspicuous ways to spend $1m, like buying a crappy one bedroom apartment in the outskirts of Sydney.

[Uncle_Ken]

Originally Posted by Roostercam

I just finished reading the post on 'sick of fake GT's advertised as real one'. Anyway, one of the posts suggests after baby boomers are gone, so will the values of the cars they loved. Like many others, I watch the second hand car market with great interest and we have all seen over the last decade or so what prices some achieve. I thought this might be a good place to discuss the future of collecting cars, their values and what models people think will be attractive to buyers in 20 & 30 years. The cars I am referring to are the typical Australian 60's & 70's Ford's and Holden plus American muscle cars from the same generation.

SO going back to the OP.
In 20 years time (2038) any car build pre-2008 could be on historic plates (in NSW) correct? Your can start by looking at any BA/BF and 1st run FG's.
And of course T series AU's. There are 1,065 cars on sale 2008, $20-$35,000 on car sales today. Take of SUV's and buses its around 500.
Lots of FPV GT's and Holden SV GTS in the list.
I don't know about 'making money'. Some makes 'keep their value' but I would not have guessed that Mazda MX5's would keep their value when they first came out.
Are you asking how much 60's 70's cars would be worth by then?
UK

[au350hp]

Sorry U_K, I could have worded the topic a bit better It probably would have been better to ask will the cars from the 60's & 70s continue to maintain their value & interest with future generations? Also, will a mint BA XR6 Turbo manual (as example) be as appealing in 25 years?

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Why buy a high profile car which has people talking, gets news coverage etc which puts you in the spotlight with ‘ill gotten gains’?

Surely there is less conspicuous ways to spend $1m, like buying a crappy one bedroom apartment in the outskirts of Sydney.

Hello,
I wasent going to answer this because the "powers that be" warned me not to,I could explain it or Mr Smith could,but I won't because I was asked not to??....so I won't!

Cheers Billy.