You have a right to a court hearing - Page 2

Keepleft · 03-10-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kircher

We don't have a bill of rights though.

The 1688 Bill Of Rights applies in preamble. Modern chardonnay socialist lawyers, reformists, like to belittle or ignore or sideline this.

Recent (1-30yr) created law, passed by most parliaments for all GovCo tiers, could be challenged by an expert team comprising a QC (not SC:-) IF the need really arose.

An Aussie created Bill Of Rights is something that'd scare the frack outta me. Not just because we are historically apathetic.

Anyhow, back on topic.

kircher · 03-10-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

The 1688 Bill Of Rights applies in preamble. Modern chardonnay socialist lawyers, reformists, like to belittle or ignore or sideline this.

Recent (1-30yr) created law, passed by most parliaments for all GovCo tiers, could be challenged by an expert team comprising a QC (not SC:-) IF the need really arose.

An Aussie created Bill Of Rights is something that'd scare the frack outta me. Not just because we are historically apathetic.

Anyhow, back on topic.

Thanks for that clarification Keepleft. I did not know about this Bill of Rights that applies to all members of the Commonwealth. I'm not a lawyer as you can see, but law does interest me.

I had a look at the 1689 Bill of Rights you refer to, and it verifies that fines without trial and conviction are illegal:

Quote:

That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void

Now this to me means that on the spot fines are only legal if you still have the right to have your verdict determined in a court, and that paying the fine is akin to pleading guilty.

So yes, we all have the right to a court hearing, and this right can't be taken away from us legally.

Funnily though, this document also states that Protestants are allowed to bear arms. Where does that leave Catholics, Atheists and others?

For those interested in reading this document, find it here http://www.constitution.org/eng/eng_bor.htm

PS Keepleft, I like your use of the Battlestar Galactica bowdlerisation, and if by keeping left you mean on highways and dual carriageways, I absolutely agree with you, using lanes incorrectly is the single most dangerous thing on high speed roads.

MITCHAY · 03-10-2009, 08:19 PM

The only way I'd bother going to court is if it was going to result in loss of licence, so I could get a reduced term or get it dismissed.

Bobman · 03-10-2009, 09:00 PM

Pretty sure I remember reading that they changed the way you could contest a speeding fine here in Victoria to make it much harder and as we know, the courts usually side with civic compliance.

Scaffy · 05-10-2009, 02:03 AM

Do the crime and do the time? Pfffft. The police are never wrong. The cameras and equipment are 100% accurate, 100% of the time. There is no room for error because there is no error. Pfffffffffffft!

December last year I was pulled over on the Kwinana Freeway (100km/h zone). Officer with LIDAR tells me I was doing 113km/h. I had cruise control set to 105km/h in '08 Mondeo XR5, which is 101km/h according to GPS unit. I argue that there is no way I was doing the speed he says. He doesn't care for anything I have to say. He knocks 2km/h off recorded speed and hands me a fine for $150 and 4 points (double demerits). I had 2 demerits remaining, so stood to lose my licence. I sent a letter off to inform them of my intent to challenge the fine. Eventually a trial date was set for Nov 16th. On the 22nd of this month I received a letter to say that they have dropped the charge and will no longer be pursuing the matter.

Everyone was telling me to just cop the charge, it's not worth the hassle, you must've been speeding so accept the consequences. Well, If I'd have done that, then I would've been without my licence, possibly have had to deal with higher insurance premiums, all because someone has obviously screwed up, somewhere.

Although, if there were no point penalty, I wouldn't have bothered fighting it.

From now on, if I don't believe I was doing the speed they say I was doing, I'll definately be challenging it before a Magistrate.

**data_mine** · 05-10-2009, 02:42 AM

IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

But (and I hope someone can confirm or correct me),

If you simply cough up and pay your fine, it goes no further than your driver record. Contest it in court, and either lose or plead guilty, and it goes onto your _criminal_ record.

MO · 05-10-2009, 09:58 AM

@datamine,I don't think that is correct as far as I'm aware speeding is not a criminal offence but driving with more than the .05 booze limit is.
That does go on your criminal record.

Bad Bird · 05-10-2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

If you got caught speeding pay the bloody fine.Do the crime, pay the fine, it is simiple!! I'm sick of this kind of thinking from people.. Why waste everyones time if you know you where speeding? Just pay the fine & move on with life!! Or even better, stop speeding & you won't get a fine to start with!!

And ladies and gentlemen, this banal post is yet more evidence as to why this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Why don't we all just lay down and die?

devilcv8 · 05-10-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Sorry to burst your bubble kircher,but there is a quota system and thats from some retired cops I know and two still serving in QLD and NSW.

It's actually a quota by stealth (or a claytons quota, the quota you have when you don't have a quota). NSW HWP do not have a quota system.

However, if a HWP officer fails to issue a certain number of TINs he/she will be called in for counselling by their boss.

ED Classic · 05-10-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by data_mine

IANAL (I am not a lawyer)

But (and I hope someone can confirm or correct me),

If you simply cough up and pay your fine, it goes no further than your driver record. Contest it in court, and either lose or plead guilty, and it goes onto your _criminal_ record.

Speeding is a summary offence not a criminal offence_whether you contest or not...Regardless of what traffic police would like you to beleive

MO · 05-10-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devilcv8

It's actually a quota by stealth (or a claytons quota, the quota you have when you don't have a quota). NSW HWP do not have a quota system.

However, if a HWP officer fails to issue a certain number of TINs he/she will be called in for counselling by their boss.

Exactly,hmm do I detect some first hand knowledge here?

XplosiveR6 · 05-10-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Speeding is a summary offence not a criminal offence_whether you contest or not...Regardless of what traffic police would like you to beleive

Just because its a summary offence certainly doesnt mean it will not go on your record. try joining the police force, work for asio or have a court appearence and ALL offences will be brought up and taken into consideration.

XplosiveR6 · 05-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ED Classic

Speeding is a summary offence not a criminal offence_whether you contest or not...Regardless of what traffic police would like you to beleive

Just because its a summary offence certainly doesnt mean it will not go on your record. try joining the police force, work for asio or have a court appearence and ALL offences will be brought up and be used to see what kind of character you are.

Bobman · 05-10-2009, 03:24 PM

Victoria Police still let applicants apply if they have had speeding fines, but if you have had one close to the date of application it may be refused.

devilcv8 · 05-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

Exactly,hmm do I detect some first hand knowledge here?

A dose of common sense and a number of "chats" with the police.

Common sense part is: Every employee has to produce 'something' for their employer, thus that 'something' needs to be measured. What do HWP produce? answer is TINs (well the easiest to count anyway)
One of the chats confirmed it, there once was a HWP officer who gave a lot of cautions but not many TINs. After a stern talking to by his boss, the cautions dried up and his TIN count increased.