The Aviation thread - Page 11

MY70GT · 29-09-2010, 12:05 PM

My first time posting in this thread......some really remarkable images. Im a WWII aviation fan, and i live on Long Island, NY USA where many vintage WWII aircraft were built, flown and tested. My favorite and most obscure aircraft is the P-61 Black Widow Night Fighter.......

Northrop P-61C Black Widow

The heavily-armed Black Widow was the United States' first aircraft specifically designed as a night-fighter. The P-61 carried radar equipment in its nose that enabled its crew of two or three to locate enemy aircraft in total darkness and fly into proper position to attack.

The XP-61 was flight-tested in 1942 and the delivery of production aircraft began in late 1943. The P-61 flew its first operational intercept mission as a night fighter in Europe on July 3, 1944, and later was also used as a night intruder over enemy territory. In the Pacific, a Black Widow claimed its first "kill" on the night of July 6, 1944. As P-61s became available, they replaced interim Douglas P-70s and Bristol Beaufighters in all USAAF night fighter squadrons.

During World War II, Northrop built approximately 700 P-61s; 41 of these were C models manufactured in the summer of 1945 offering greater speed and capable of operating at higher altitude. The Black Widow on display was presented to the museum by the Tecumseh Council, Boy Scouts of America, Springfield, Ohio, in 1958. It is painted and marked as a P-61B assigned to the 550th Night Fighter Squadron serving in the Pacific in 1945.

TECHNICAL NOTES:
Armament: Four .50-cal. machine guns in upper turret and four 20mm cannons in belly; 6,400 lbs. of bombs
Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800s of 2,100 hp each
Maximum speed: 425 mph
Cruising speed: 275 mph
Range: 1,200 miles
Ceiling: 46,200 ft.
Span: 66 ft.
Length: 49 ft. 7 in.
Height: 14 ft. 8 in.
Weight: 35,855 lbs. loaded
Serial number: 43-8353

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

Man the Yanks love their heritage flights - quite rightly too. If only that RAAF did as well....

The USAF doesnt have any heritage aircraft. Its all privately owned.

So i dont follow what you mean if only the RAAF would?

The RAAF has in the past done limited mixed formations with privately owned aircraft at airshows.

flappist · 29-09-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The USAF doesnt have any heritage aircraft. Its all privately owned.

So i dont follow what you mean if only the RAAF would?

The RAAF has in the past done limited mixed formations with privately owned aircraft at airshows.

Really?

Hmm, I saw a few oldish sort of aircraft here a few years ago.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/

**Peuty** · 29-09-2010, 12:40 PM

Didn't know that...

Also, hard to fly an F111 when it's in a thousand pieces. Which was my real point. I realise they are bound by the purchase contract, but I wouldn't have thought it would have been hard to get out of it for one or two aircraft, especially seeing as they are apparently "cold war relics".

Ah well. If I had a coupla million, I'd buy one and just taxi it to work and dump fuel on people who can't keep left.

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 01:58 PM

Aircraft in Museum which is run by retired servicemen (some volanteers) is different.
How many are airworthy?
And more to the point the Museum may be the Air Force Museum, but only in name.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/volunteer/index.asp

The USAF doesnt own any old aircraft, the museam does.

Quote:

Didn't know that...

Also, hard to fly an F111 when it's in a thousand pieces. Which was my real point. I realise they are bound by the purchase contract, but I wouldn't have thought it would have been hard to get out of it for one or two aircraft, especially seeing as they are apparently "cold war relics".

The F-111G models (the grey ones) have to be destroyed (or rendered useless). there is no ifs or buts. they were former SAC aircraft and nuclear capable and come under various nuclear treaties. Though a guttered G model has gone to a museum from memory.
The c model is another story as it was never nuclear capable, but there is always the issue that the USA retains the final say as to what happens to them.

The RAAF recently got rid of some of its old P-3s. They were sold to Pakistan. The US actually regained ownership of the retired aircraft and then handed them over to the Pakis.... Which is very stupid as we owned the aircraft. But the US always retains final say on the onselling of 2nd hand military aircraft. If thats not big brother.. I dunno what is.

**Polyal** · 29-09-2010, 02:09 PM

So how many people are going to Avalon next year? It will be my first and I cant wait.

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 02:16 PM

Many years ago the last DC-3 in service in the RAAF was still flown by serving members and on the RAAFs "books" so to speak... I tihnk it was retired after 60 odd yrs of service in 2005? and went to one of the museums.

Well over 15yrs ago there was a Mustang which "technically" still belonged to the RAAF though it never appeared anywhere on any accounting. The Mustang lived in 38SQNs hangar in Townsville for about 20yrs and was an ongoing project which involved volanteers and service personel.

It was eventually moved down south! So we never saw it fly here. It was complete apart from a prop (the prop it has was damaged) and a few aircraft instruments were missing. However the U/C worked and the engine was run.

A Lockheed Neptune here in Townsville was also "off the books" but was worked on by volanteers and service personel. It was in "taxiing" condition in 1998? and then relegated to gate guardian duties in front of the 5TH Aviation entrance further down from the main gate.

The issue was finding people who can work on "piston" engine aircraft. As everyone who had any knowledge of these things were well in their 60s and far and few between.

Money was a 2nd issue. The RAAF is not supposed to be a flying circus as such.
Therefore the Mustang went to a museum down south and the Neptune which is too big and costly to ship was turned into a gate gardian.

Swordsman88 · 29-09-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Many years ago the last DC-3 in service in the RAAF was still flown by serving members and on the RAAFs "books" so to speak... I tihnk it was retired after 60 odd yrs of service in 2005? and went to one of the museums.

Well over 15yrs ago there was a Mustang which "technically" still belonged to the RAAF though it never appeared anywhere on any accounting. The Mustang lived in 38SQNs hangar in Townsville for about 20yrs and was an ongoing project which involved volanteers and service personel.

It was eventually moved down south! So we never saw it fly here. It was complete apart from a prop (the prop it has was damaged) and a few aircraft instruments were missing. However the U/C worked and the engine was run.

A Lockheed Neptune here in Townsville was also "off the books" but was worked on by volanteers and service personel. It was in "taxiing" condition in 1998? and then relegated to gate guardian duties in front of the 5TH Aviation entrance further down from the main gate.

The issue was finding people who can work on "piston" engine aircraft. As everyone who had any knowledge of these things were well in their 60s and far and few between.

Money was a 2nd issue. The RAAF is not supposed to be a flying circus as such.
Therefore the Mustang went to a museum down south and the Neptune which is too big and costly to ship was turned into a gate gardian.

Interesting story about the neptune. I've seen that a few times when going past the front gate in townsville but never new it was still in taxi condition as late as 1998. Not a common aircraft to see around these parts (or anywhere really) so alot of guys dont' know what it is....Kinda like its replacement the P3.....you don't hear them much but that't the entire point. They just trundle around 'looking' for stuff.....

Swordsman88 · 29-09-2010, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MY70GT

My first time posting in this thread......some really remarkable images. Im a WWII aviation fan, and i live on Long Island, NY USA where many vintage WWII aircraft were built, flown and tested. My favorite and most obscure aircraft is the P-61 Black Widow Night Fighter.......

Great aircraft for your first post mate! Pretty rare by WW2 standards RE production. THe armament is just astounding. It is clear by late in the war the yanks were sick of fighters running out of ammo before they could bring down one of the heavilly armoured germany bombers so they packed it full of weaponry. biggest problem would have been hitting anything with the pretty basic radars they had back then.....

Swordsman88 · 29-09-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

Some new arrivals today.

Qantas 787-900 (I know they don't have any) and 767-300

In 2 weeks I am setting up an airport and taking all my models to a Hobby Expo, so all the ones in the pics plus another 20 or so I have boxed up. Should be great.

At last, you have my 767! Great to see it alongside its spiritual successor. I will have one small complaint if i may....it appears you have one of the ex-BA 767-336 (RR engines). ZXA is not currently wearing a name tag so that is a bit wrong but its the new livery that is a no no for me. They haven't painted any of the RR engined craft in the new livery and i doubt they will bother given th latest rumour is that despite 787 delays once jetstar starts to get their (next year) the Jetstar a330 come back to qantas for domestic duties. This will lead to the retirement of some 767s starting with the RR ex-BA craft.

Never know though they are looking a bit ratty maybe they will get that repaint before being given the boot. Just to make things fair given you have graciously posted a pic of the model version here is a virtual representation of ZXA's sister ship ZXB smoking her way on RW19 in Brisbane. Can't remember the flight but probably another cityflyer from syd/melb....

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

Interesting story about the neptune. I've seen that a few times when going past the front gate in townsville but never new it was still in taxi condition as late as 1998. Not a common aircraft to see around these parts (or anywhere really) so alot of guys dont' know what it is....Kinda like its replacement the P3.....you don't hear them much but that't the entire point. They just trundle around 'looking' for stuff.....

There are two at Townsville. The one outside the fence at the main gate was stripped of anything useful (but the engines are still there) to help get the otherone going (Inside the fence further up the road near the causeway).

I actually have a picture of it Taxiing down the runway during an airshow.
There was a airworthy Neppie at the show and the two did a formation take-off roll. (the airworthy one obviously got airbourne!).

From memory it blew a few cyclinders on the high speed taxi run and that was the end of that!

I was also the star at an Airport Ball that was staged in one of the old WW2 hangers (on the GA side of the airport). Taxied up and stuck its nose into the hangar and the band had the stage right underneath. I was serving at the bar... ahh the good old days .

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 03:41 PM

Ok I dusted off the albums....

Below is a picture of the two Neptunes I was talking about before.
It was in 1991! About 3 yrs later it appeared as a gate guardian.
So have to revise it to 1994... mind isnt what it used to be.

Also scanned this one...
A picture of a Canberra bomber from 1992.
This aircraft once belonged to NO2 SQN.
It had been sold to someone in the USA.
The picture was at the International Terminal at Townsville and the aircraft had returned to Australia (via guam) from the USA for an airshow down south.

A couple of old aircraft engineers who worked in the civvy side of the airport were ex RAAF and actually worked at NO2 SQN as LAMEs and that very aircraft, were happy to inspect it and give heaps of advice to the pilot... lol

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 04:07 PM

A few more...

These were taken by me in 1988 at the Townsville Raaf Base.
It was the final visit of the retiring Mirages and the first visit of the Hornets.
Walking out close to the flight line wasnt a worry either!

Also can be seen the Mustang which used to "kinda" belonged to the RAAF.
And the Southern Cross Replica paid a visit too.

Check out the style of clothes... ahh the 80s.

**Peuty** · 29-09-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

A picture of a Canberra bomber from 1992.
This aircraft once belonged to NO2 SQN.
It had been sold to someone in the USA.
The picture was at the International Terminal at Townsville and the aircraft had returned to Australia (via guam) from the USA for an airshow down south.

A couple of old aircraft engineers who worked in the civvy side of the airport were ex RAAF and actually worked at NO2 SQN as LAMEs and that very aircraft, were happy to inspect it and give heaps of advice to the pilot... lol

I hear that 229 had a slight mishap whilst being prepared for road transport in the States and may not ever fly again...

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 04:23 PM

Would be a shame if it never flew again!
Wasnt that a while ago though?
I rarely read the historic magazines anymore...

**Peuty** · 29-09-2010, 04:42 PM

The wings were damaged during removal I believe...back in 1999/2000 I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Though a guttered G model has gone to a museum from memory.

Was road freighted to Pt Cook - A8-272

Not the most graceful of trips....

flappist · 29-09-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Aircraft in Museum which is run by retired servicemen (some volanteers) is different.
How many are airworthy?
And more to the point the Museum may be the Air Force Museum, but only in name.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/volunteer/index.asp

The USAF doesnt own any old aircraft, the museam does.

Well the museum is at Wright-Patterson AF base and according to the people I spoke to while I was there (not the ones carrying guns at the entry gate of course) it is owned by the Airforce and some of the aircraft can and do fly but most are too valuable e.g. Yaegers X1, Boxcar (dropped the bomb on Nagasaki), X15, Valkyrie etc.

A quick search of the internet shows that the USAF also think that they OWN and OPERATE the museums with the volunteers just providing labour.

Jim Goose · 29-09-2010, 04:58 PM

The USAF do not operate the aircraft.....

If they do, please tell me which squardon they belong to

In darwin there is a B52 on display...
"technically" it remains the property of the US DOD because it is a nuclear capable bomber and must be accounted for.
The aircraft for "financial" purposes doesnt exsist with the USAF as its been written off.
The USAF does not maintain it, and its not responsible for it while under loan to the Museum in Darwin.
It doesnt belong to any SQN or wing as its a retired aircraft.
Yet the US retains ownership of it.

irlewy86 · 29-09-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peuty

The wings were damaged during removal I believe...back in 1999/2000 I think.

Was road freighted to Pt Cook - A8-272

Not the most graceful of trips....

Looking even more pig-like with the rest of its nose cone off

Spanrz · 29-09-2010, 07:19 PM

Anyone here been to Mangalore (VIC), when the air show used to be there in the 80's?

flappist · 29-09-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The USAF do not operate the aircraft.....

If they do, please tell me which squardon they belong to

In darwin there is a B52 on display...
"technically" it remains the property of the US DOD because it is a nuclear capable bomber and must be accounted for.
The aircraft for "financial" purposes doesnt exsist with the USAF as its been written off.
The USAF does not maintain it, and its not responsible for it while under loan to the Museum in Darwin.
It doesnt belong to any SQN or wing as its a retired aircraft.
Yet the US retains ownership of it.

You just dig the hole deeper and deeper every time don't you.

You stated that USAF do not have old aircraft and they are all private.

I told you about some that I have personally seen owned by USAF on a USAF base that required me to show my passport and get it checked against a computer to get through the gate.

You disputed it and I gave you a link to their official web site which contains many references to USAF ownership, property, operation of the museum etc. as well as links to other USAF sites.

FFS the url ends in .mil so it MUST be military, the US Government would not allow it otherwise.

Mad_Aussie · 29-09-2010, 07:48 PM

Anyone here been up in a Terrier 200?

My uncles up north of WA have just bought a kit for their station to replace a Cessna they put into the dam.. Looking forward to heading up there next year to check it out.

I've always wanted to get myself a little kit plane with floats, would be so good flying up around the top end, fishing in isolated spots you usually wouldn't get to..

**Burnout** · 29-09-2010, 08:19 PM

NC1183 · 29-09-2010, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

Nice pic of the B-52 and the B-2, the USAF's main-stay heavy long range bomber aircraft.

**Burnout** · 29-09-2010, 08:58 PM

Just get a photo, or how close:

**Peuty** · 29-09-2010, 10:10 PM

Insane!

Spudz27 · 29-09-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swordsman88

At last, you have my 767! Great to see it alongside its spiritual successor. I will have one small complaint if i may....it appears you have one of the ex-BA 767-336 (RR engines). ZXA is not currently wearing a name tag so that is a bit wrong but its the new livery that is a no no for me. They haven't painted any of the RR engined craft in the new livery and i doubt they will bother given th latest rumour is that despite 787 delays once jetstar starts to get their (next year) the Jetstar a330 come back to qantas for domestic duties. This will lead to the retirement of some 767s starting with the RR ex-BA craft.

Never know though they are looking a bit ratty maybe they will get that repaint before being given the boot. Just to make things fair given you have graciously posted a pic of the model version here is a virtual representation of ZXA's sister ship ZXB smoking her way on RW19 in Brisbane. Can't remember the flight but probably another cityflyer from syd/melb....

Ha I was waiting for your post, knowing you fly the 767 on the sim. The manufacturers always make mistakes with these models, but hey I do not collect because I want an EXACT plane I collect because I like them. However there are some out there that whinge at every model they own because they expect perfection for their $40 lol, though some models are upwards of $200au, then even I expect perfection.

aye you · 30-09-2010, 01:39 PM

Mad Aussie, i reckon this aircraft would be perfect up north, slap the floats on it and you've got a seriously versitile machine

Expedition E350

Mad_Aussie · 30-09-2010, 02:37 PM

That's a sexy little plane, aye you!

**Burnout** · 30-09-2010, 10:52 PM