Micro/light car segment making no progress - Page 2

anobserver · 08-12-2020, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Mirage Cyborg R had a 1.6 with 130kw

They must be fun to drive.

CyberWasp · 08-12-2020, 10:09 PM

If a car company came up with an iconic design it could have the same effect as the original Mini did back in the day.
It would have to have the looks and be fun to drive.

Franco Cozzo · 08-12-2020, 10:14 PM

I quite like the Kia Picanto but it needs more balls under the hood, it looks great in white.

I guess the platform is right, it's boosted at least.

BENT_8 · 08-12-2020, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I quite like the Kia Picanto but it needs more balls under the hood, it looks great in white.

I guess the platform is right, it's boosted at least.

I believe they can be tuned to 100kw but not sure of the details.
BAWITHLOT could tell you more, he has a couple of them.

Franco Cozzo · 08-12-2020, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I believe they can be tuned to 100kw but not sure of the details.

I guess the basics like air intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune will do the usual decent gains on any boosted car.

BENT_8 · 08-12-2020, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I guess the basics like air intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune will do the usual decent gains on any boosted car.

More than likely, problem is the boosted version is only 18 months old so you'd have to give up 5.5 yrs of warranty at minimum to go there.

deesun · 08-12-2020, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

More than likely, problem is the boosted version is only 18 months old so you'd have to give up 5.5 yrs of warranty at minimum to go there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

So much road safety, people will start coming back from the dead

If, you have to claim under warranty, then it is up to the dealer to prove the tune is what caused the problem. My dealer was never concerned I had a tune. A tune only shouldn't hurt much. Generally the only difference between the first of a model and last of a model which has more power is the tune.

Yellow_Festiva · 08-12-2020, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

AE93 Corolla SX with 100kw 4A-GE?

That be it

BENT_8 · 08-12-2020, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deesun

If, you have to claim under warranty, then it is up to the dealer to prove the tune is what caused the problem. My dealer was never concerned I had a tune. A tune only shouldn't hurt much. Generally the only difference between the first of a model and last of a model which has more power is the tune.

Fair enough, i've never encountered it so im just suggesting its worth consideration.

Bossxr8 · 09-12-2020, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I guess the basics like air intake, exhaust, intercooler and a tune will do the usual decent gains on any boosted car.

It's still f- all considering one size up cars like the Fiesta ST, I20N etc all have about 150kw standard.

Boosting one of those little girly cars is like throwing a can of water on a bush fire. You are starting from such a low base, that it's still going to be a complete slug, and the money you are spending on top of the purchase price means you could just about buy one of the bigger size hot hatches used.

Franco Cozzo · 09-12-2020, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's still f- all considering one size up cars like the Fiesta ST, I20N etc all have about 150kw standard.

Boosting one of those little girly cars is like throwing a can of water on a bush fire. You are starting from such a low base, that it's still going to be a complete slug, and the money you are spending on top of the purchase price means you could just about buy one of the bigger size hot hatches used.

You could say that about any car if that was the metric, if we're measuring modified cars that way then the only car you should buy is a second hand FG-FGX XR6T/G6ET

Same as anything Ford V8 prior to Miami, literally all expensive boat anchors compared to, LSx, JDM or Barra.

Bossxr8 · 10-12-2020, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You could say that about any car if that was the metric, if we're measuring modified cars that way then the only car you should buy is a second hand FG-FGX XR6T/G6ET

Same as anything Ford V8 prior to Miami, literally all expensive boat anchors compared to, LSx, JDM or Barra.

But they have the capacity and the cylinder count to be useable to make power. These tiny little engines have nothing useful to make power with.

That's why next to no one bothers touching them.

Yellow_Festiva · 10-12-2020, 01:03 PM

Light cars at budget prices are touted as cheap, reliable economical transportation.

Best way to make an engine use less fuel is to keep the tune down at an acceptable level.

Engine development is catered to consumption efficiency over performance gains. A 75kw 1.6L engine of today will use much less fuel than a 75kw 1.6 from 15 years ago.

Sure anything can be boosted and tuned for outright performance but thats why they go into performance oriented cars where consumption penalties are more tolerated.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

BENT_8 · 10-12-2020, 01:07 PM

Im sure the youngster with a sub 20k budget will be quite upset that their new Picanto with mods wont stack up to a turbo taxi, mind you, that 20k plus mods turbo taxi owner would be equally upset when a used Tesla tears them a new one on the qtr so its all relevant.

Personally id rather know its not my race than think im in one until the lights go green and find out im not.

Franco Cozzo · 10-12-2020, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But they have the capacity and the cylinder count to be useable to make power. These tiny little engines have nothing useful to make power with.

That's why next to no one bothers touching them.

At what cost? What does it take to make a 302W or a 5.4L 4V competitive with an LSx?

I think it would be an interesting exercise, Kia Picanto N

The whole modified car scene makes absolutely no sense financially regardless.

Turbo diesel was niche when I was playing with my Focus, now with Thailand Specials becoming so prevalent there's a turbo diesel modification scene turning up in Australia.

Vesper Martini · 10-12-2020, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

There was a 1.6 at the time that made great numbers compared to the competition - can't remember if it was the Hyundai Coupe at 88kw or something from Toyota? Around mid 90's.

Mazda Famiilia (323) DOHC TURBOs we had in NZ were popular the 1.6L B6T engine had 110KW and was easily boosted. there were later 1.8 versions even better.

modified these things were quicker than v8 Falcon or commodores at the time

Yellow_Festiva · 10-12-2020, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Mazda Famiilia (323) DOHC TURBOs we had in NZ were popular the 1.6L B6T engine had 110KW and was easily boosted. there were later 1.8 versions even better.

modified these things were quicker than v8 Falcon or commodores at the time

I had a NZ'er housemate that had one. He had the 1.8L and it was quite tickled....

He told me he only got 150km to a tank, 180km if he was on the freeway.

Don't know what it made at the wheels but would have been quite a bit.

MrZ · 11-12-2020, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Im sure the youngster with a sub 20k budget will be quite upset that their new Picanto with mods wont stack up to a turbo taxi, mind you, that 20k plus mods turbo taxi owner would be equally upset when a used Tesla tears them a new one on the qtr so its all relevant.

I'm confused. You're talking about a FG Falcon turbo taxi? I think it's highly unlikely you'd come across one, and why would a taxi driver care about a Tesla beating them at the lights?

MrZ · 11-12-2020, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anobserver

This was as a time when second hand cars were expensive, and tariff liberalisation was making small new cars affordable.

Around 1997-1998 was the time when used car prices were peaking, because very low car sales in 1986-1987 and again during the 1991-1993 period, meant that there was a major shortage of used cars coming onto the market.

Bossxr8 · 11-12-2020, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZ

I'm confused. You're talking about a FG Falcon turbo taxi? I think it's highly unlikely you'd come across one, and why would a taxi driver care about a Tesla beating them at the lights?

I've had him on ignore for ages, but he still quotes me every time I post cause he's still butthurt about it #headfkd #can'tletitgo #rentfree

Franco Cozzo · 11-12-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZ

I'm confused. You're talking about a FG Falcon turbo taxi? I think it's highly unlikely you'd come across one, and why would a taxi driver care about a Tesla beating them at the lights?

Street Machine turbo taxi or just reference to an XR6T and Falcons being used as Taxi - V8 supercars known as V8 Supertaxis

Bossxr8 · 11-12-2020, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Street Machine turbo taxi or just reference to an XR6T and Falcons being used as Taxi - V8 supercars known as V8 Supertaxis

Ford did actually fit some pre-production Barra turbos to AU taxi's, loaned them to taxi companies, and made them sign confidentiality agreements, so they could get some extra durability miles into them early on. Nothing like real world testing to see how it was going to go.

Franco Cozzo · 11-12-2020, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford did actually fit some pre-production Barra turbos to AU taxi's, loaned them to taxi companies, and made them sign confidentiality agreements, so they could get some extra durability miles into them early on. Nothing like real world testing to see how it was going to go.

Absolutely, real world is the best type of testing.

Bossxr8 · 11-12-2020, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Absolutely, real world is the best type of testing.

Would have loved to see the taxi drivers faces the first time they planted the foot. Ford didn't actually tell them what they were doing, and I believe the bonnets were wired shut

XR Martin · 11-12-2020, 03:57 PM

I remember a cabby (who was a fordforums member) telling me he had a 6speed BA to run around in. However it was a BTR transmission, not ZF.

fnp · 11-12-2020, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I remember a cabby (who was a fordforums member) telling me he had a 6speed BA to run around in. However it was a BTR transmission, not ZF.

Interesting, I never knew BTR had built a six speed. Apparently it's used in a few Ssang Yong models and a few Chinese cars.

BENT_8 · 11-12-2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrZ

I'm confused. You're talking about a FG Falcon turbo taxi? I think it's highly unlikely you'd come across one, and why would a taxi driver care about a Tesla beating them at the lights?

Lol, its reference to Falcons being used as both taxi's and performance cars, not necessarily the same car although there were G6ET's used by some taxi companies.
Old mate, who thinks i quote him 'every time' has a G6ET which he's slowly gathering the funds and parts to make it go quicker, not as quick as a secondhand stock Tesla though which in keeping with his comments about Picanto owners wasting money tuning their cars when they could just double their budget on a Fiesta ST, im wondering why someone in his position wouldnt just stretch the mortgage and get a fast car to begin with.

Franco Cozzo · 11-12-2020, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, its reference to Falcons being used as both taxi's and performance cars, not necessarily the same car although there were G6ET's used by some taxi companies.
Old mate, who thinks i quote him 'every time' has a G6ET which he's slowly gathering the funds and parts to make it go quicker, not as quick as a secondhand stock Tesla though which in keeping with his comments about Picanto owners wasting money tuning their cars when they could just double their budget on a Fiesta ST, im wondering why someone in his position wouldnt just stretch the mortgage and get a fast car to begin with.

You can sleep in a car but you can't race a house

Speaking of the mighty Kia Picanto, they're all over the joint in Melbourne, looks good in white.

Might buy one as the daily, let it sit in my driveway in the elements for a decade then in 2030, start a thread on AFF whinging about how crap build quality was on cars in the 2020s

Bossxr8 · 11-12-2020, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I remember a cabby (who was a fordforums member) telling me he had a 6speed BA to run around in. However it was a BTR transmission, not ZF.

Yep BTR/ION/DSI or whoever they were at the time had their own 6 speed auto they were trying to get uptake on. For whatever reason it wasn't used, and Ford went with the ZF.

LOL at the tosser looking into my build threads and continually replying to my posts. Yet claiming he doesn't. Get over it and move on stalker. I don't give 2 ****s what you think. Put me on ignore and move on.

Franco Cozzo · 11-12-2020, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yep BTR/ION/DSI or whoever they were at the time had their own 6 speed auto they were trying to get uptake on. For whatever reason it wasn't used, and Ford went with the ZF.

LOL at the tosser looking into my build threads and continually replying to my posts. Yet claiming he doesn't. Get over it and move on stalker. I don't give 2 ****s what you think. Put me on ignore and move on.

Makes me wonder why they went with the ZF, surely that would have been the most expensive option or maybe BTR/ION/DSI/Unicorn couldn't meet Ford's requirements? Or was ZF also supplying other vehicles in Ford global range (IE USA models?) and available at a good price point?

The BTR got a 20+ year run in the Falcon, you'd think that would have held weight with Ford.

I'd like to know the decision behind the ZF.