Russia v Ukraine

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by zilo

That derelict incompetent Russian army seems to be doing ok....

at stealing anything they can...
https://www.bbc.com/news/61790625

[burnz]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

at stealing anything they can...
https://www.bbc.com/news/61790625

like america stealing oil??

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by burnz

like america stealing oil??

Could you post that again please, the link that provides evidence for your claim didn't attach.

Or if you want to start a different topic where we can discuss the war crimes committed by the US I would be happy to participate there. We could even have a discussion on the actions of Australian forces in Afganistan. Or how Australia dealt with East Timor over the gas fields in the north west shelf. There is plenty of evil in the world in the world and very few innocent parties.

But my immediate concern is the millions of people in poor countries that will starve if they do not get access to cheap Ukrainian wheat very soon.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

my immediate concern is the millions of people in poor countries that will starve if they do not get access to cheap Ukrainian wheat very soon.

They could eat cheap Russian or expensive Australian wheat....

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by zilo

They could eat cheap Russian or expensive Australian wheat....

So 80 millions tons of grain can just be removed from the world market and nobody will notice?

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Could you post that again please, the link that provides evidence for your claim didn't attach.

Or if you want to start a different topic where we can discuss the war crimes committed by the US I would be happy to participate there. We could even have a discussion on the actions of Australian forces in Afganistan. Or how Australia dealt with East Timor over the gas fields in the north west shelf. There is plenty of evil in the world in the world and very few innocent parties.

But my immediate concern is the millions of people in poor countries that will starve if they do not get access to cheap Ukrainian wheat very soon.

“Whataboutism”, the way people justify their stupid arguments.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

So 80 millions tons of grain can just be removed from the world market and nobody will notice?

They can always eat cake instead.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

But my immediate concern is the millions of people in poor countries that will starve if they do not get access to cheap Ukrainian wheat very soon.

The UN, through its various agencies, had already warned that world hunger was coming WAYYYY before the war started.

Going by the data on this site, wheat exports to regions where there are real risks of hunger and starvation actually comes from Russia. It'd be interesting to see what real impact the war has actually had on exports to these regions.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...ly-interactive

Interesting to see that the leaders of NATO are also top exporters of wheat. Maybe they can give a little more.

Also interesting to hear that Zelenskyy recently wanted to address all the heads of the African nations. 50 odd were invited, only 2-3 heads actually showed up, the rest sent delegates.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

The UN, through its various agencies, had already warned that world hunger was coming WAYYYY before the war started.

I am not accusing Russia of causing the famine; a drought did that. The Russians are just blocking the shipment of Ukrainian wheat to those countries. If they are doing so just to get sales for their own grain then that makes them even bigger a$$holes. Either way the kids dying of malnutrition are still dying...

[burnz]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I am not accusing Russia of causing the famine; a drought did that. The Russians are just blocking the shipment of Ukrainian wheat to those countries. If they are doing so just to get sales for their own grain then that makes them even bigger a$$holes. Either way the kids dying of malnutrition are still dying...

Didn't Ukraine mine the ports??

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

“Whataboutism”, the way people justify their stupid arguments.

Whataboutism, no it's not..

hypocrisy, gaslighting.. those come to mind.

[xkxlxm]

(T3erminator: thanks for the Ritter link.)

Getting near the end there's a clip of George W. Bush speaking at the George W. Bush Institute. Part of what he says: " ... the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq, I mean of the Ukraine."

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by burnz

Didn't Ukraine mine the ports??

Yes, they thought the Russian landing craft gathering in Crimea might be intended for an invasion of Odesa. Hopefully they remember where they put them and could guide a ship around them. But nobody will sail into that area at the moment, no insurance company will cover them. And Odesa gets hit by missiles fairly regularly.

[T3rminator]

Ports were also de-registered, making it illegal for any ships to dock there for official import/export. When the Russians tried to re-register the ports, of course it got rejected.

Then you have NATO funneling lethal aid through land channels also used for import / export. So when the Russians destroy those routes, its a "blockade".

Hopefully some of those "stolen" grains will make its way to regions where there is real risk of starvation. Russia seems to be the main exporter to African countries.

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

(T3erminator: thanks for the Ritter link.)

Getting near the end there's a clip of George W. Bush speaking at the George W. Bush Institute. Part of what he says: " ... the decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq, I mean of the Ukraine."

Thought the other video was more intriguing. If the Republicans take over congress, we might get to see/hear more of Hunter's adventures in Ukraine. Having said that, some of the GOPs seem to be getting pretty cozy with Zelenskyy lately, so we might not.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

(T3erminator: thanks for the Ritter link.)

I think that we had all agreed that this source had "issues" and we have moved on. Happy for you to catch up.

Thanks

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Ports were also de-registered, making it illegal for any ships to dock there for official import/export. When the Russians tried to re-register the ports, of course it got rejected.

This makes no sense; which ports are "de-registered?" Satellite pics show Russian controlled port of Sevastopol loading ships with grain. These ships were turned away from Egyptian and Lebanese ports because the grain they carried was believed to be stolen so they are offloading in Syria.

Ukraine is transferring its produce to the port of Constanta in Romania but because of the damage to rail bridges progress is slow. All the other Russian, Turkish Bulgarian and Georgian ports in the Black Sea appear to be operating.
https://www.vesselfinder.com/

As part of the sanctions all Russian owned ships are denied access to ports in the UK, US and EU. This has nothing to do with ports being "registered".

[burnz]

gotta give it to trev 57 on this thread..

pulls pin on fat grenade, lobs it into macca's...

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

This makes no sense; which ports are "de-registered?"

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ia-2022-05-02/

There was an explanation of this on the ABC at the time. "Closed" means de-registering the ports, which means no ships can legally trade there. Of course, that is not going to stop the Russians from sending in their own ships.

Originally Posted by PhilT2

These ships were turned away from Egyptian and Lebanese ports because the grain they carried was believed to be stolen so they are offloading in Syria.

Small countries are **** scared of dealing with Russia, for the fear of breaching sanctions and being sanctioned themselves. The US had to come out and clarify recently that food cargo is not under sanction.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...er-2022-06-22/

But he added that concerns had been raised about "so-called over compliance with sanctions." Washington has slapped Moscow with a broad range of sanctions since Russia invaded neighboring Ukraine on Feb. 24.

[CoupeKing]

Every one is quiet in the covid thread, says it all.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Every one is quiet in the covid thread, says it all.

Yesterday news.

[PhilT2]

It appears Turkey has dropped its objection to allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61971858
I don't know what those countries have had to give to get President Erdogan to change his mind but it may not have been much as he is in a desperate situation. Their economy is in really bad shape and an election is less than a year away.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

It appears Turkey has dropped its objection to allowing Sweden and Finland to join NATO.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61971858

I don't know what those countries have had to give to get President Erdogan to change his mind but it may not have been much as he is in a desperate situation. Their economy is in really bad shape and an election is less than a year away.

They gave him what he wanted.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/o...ectedLocale=en

[FairmontGS]

For the objective readers, The Institute For Study of War is doing a daily analysis and where things may be headed. Worth a look occasionally.

https://www.understandingwar.org/

[T3rminator]

It would appear the definition of objective can be quite subjective....

Our Mission
The Institute for the Study of War advances an informed understanding of military affairs through reliable research, trusted analysis, and innovative education. We are committed to improving the nation’s ability to execute military operations and respond to emerging threats in order to achieve U.S. strategic objectives

[FairmontGS]

Only if you spend your whole life being suspicious of everyone and thing

Regardless, they are gathering the latest reports from all sides and people on the ground to get the best possible picture of what the current state of play is. I guess they could just ask some random on You Choob...

[HIPO]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Every one is quiet in the covid thread, says it all.

This ones headed the same way!

[Citroënbender]

So, how are the magpies?

[T3rminator]

No need for suspicion. It's written there in black and white.

How many subscribers?

[Citroënbender]

Around Bilpin yesterday, north side of Bell’s Line of Road, observed a mailbox with bold “Z” painted to be seen from either side of traffic. Unimpressive.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Around Bilpin yesterday, north side of Bell’s Line of Road, observed a mailbox with bold “Z” painted to be seen from either side of traffic. Unimpressive.

Have seen the same in regional Vic. Z painted on trees.