Powershift 'Learning' after repair

manchu · 13-07-2016, 05:16 PM

I had mechatronic unit/TCM replaced in my Powershift a couple of months ago and the shifts now seem to be at significantly higher RPM than before.

I'm not quite sure how different it is because I only had the car a week before it went off for repair for a month. I swear it was much lower before though, especially 1st to 2nd which is now around 3000 under fairly sedate acceleration, which feels too high to me.

I know some transmissions learn and adapt to how the car is driven so I thought the difference I'm noticing may have something to do with this and that it might return to 'normal' after a while. It hasn't.

Anything I can or should do to get the transmission to learn after the repair?

whitelion65 · 13-07-2016, 05:21 PM

I take it yours is the petrol model??
Manual shift with it for a while and see if that helps.
Mine has not given me any issues (touch wood).

manchu · 13-07-2016, 05:23 PM

Sorry, should have mentioned. MC Diesel wagon.

whitelion65 · 13-07-2016, 05:25 PM

OK, definitely a problem.
Ford did the fix for you?
I think time for a return visit!

manchu · 13-07-2016, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitelion65

OK, definitely a problem.
Ford did the fix for you?
I think time for a return visit!

Yeah Ford did the fix, on behalf of the Mazda dealer I bought the car from.

Can you elaborate on why it's definitely a problem. Shifting too high?

If it's so clearly not right I'm surprised it wasn't picked up by the ford dealer (different one) I got it serviced at after the transmission fix. Maybe they didn't test drive it.

whitelion65 · 13-07-2016, 05:57 PM

Yep, shifting way too high, if you are driving it moderately.
You don't have it hooked over into sport mode, do you?

manchu · 13-07-2016, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitelion65

You don't have it hooked over into sport mode, do you?

No, but that's what it feels like.

rondeo · 13-07-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchu

I had mechatronic unit/TCM replaced in my Powershift a couple of months ago and the shifts now seem to be at significantly higher RPM than before.

I'm not quite sure how different it is because I only had the car a week before it went off for repair for a month. I swear it was much lower before though, especially 1st to 2nd which is now around 3000 under fairly sedate acceleration, which feels too high to me.

I know some transmissions learn and adapt to how the car is driven so I thought the difference I'm noticing may have something to do with this and that it might return to 'normal' after a while. It hasn't.

Anything I can or should do to get the transmission to learn after the repair?

Mondaveo has posted a plot with RPM vs gear:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1452297&page=2

manchu · 13-07-2016, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rondeo

Mondaveo has posted a plot with RPM vs gear:

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1452297&page=2

Cheers. 1st to 2nd looks to be about 2800 rpm, which is prob similar to mine. Although I haven't worked out how heavy mondaveo is accelerating.

Victor1 · 13-07-2016, 07:45 PM

Apparently the power shift has adaptive learning,BUT when it is reset by the repairer they take it for a long drive to set the perameters for the shifts.
BUT if the memory is set by the first driver what happens when the owner takes the car and drives differently to the first driver??????
If this in fact is truely correct the car should be driven by the intended driver under instruction by the ford repairer.

whitelion65 · 14-07-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchu

Cheers. 1st to 2nd looks to be about 2800 rpm, which is prob similar to mine. Although I haven't worked out how heavy mondaveo is accelerating.

Have a look at the SECOND set of gear changes. After the "coasting" section. Changes here occurring at 16-1700rpm. More typical of what I'd expect for the conditions you've described.

You haven't just bought a new pair of steel-caps, have you ;-) ?

manchu · 14-07-2016, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitelion65

Have a look at the SECOND set of gear changes. After the "coasting" section. Changes here occurring at 16-1700rpm. More typical of what I'd expect for the conditions you've described.

You haven't just bought a new pair of steel-caps, have you ;-) ?

But the second set of changes are down shifting. I'd expect these to be lower than up shifts.

edit..no. no new steel caps.

Just looked at the acceleration in modaveos plot. about 8 seconds to 50km/h, so reasonably sedate I think. ??

whitelion65 · 14-07-2016, 11:05 AM

Oops! My bad.

I'll have a look at mine tonight, if the missus arrives home a t a reasonable hour.

Mondaveo · 14-07-2016, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manchu

Just looked at the acceleration in modaveos plot. about 8 seconds to 50km/h, so reasonably sedate I think. ??

Hi. I thought it looked more around 7 seconds to 50kph, but yeah, as a rule I usually drive pretty sedately (the game I play is to maintain momentum and minimise braking). I think in that particular plot I was probably approaching a red light that turned green (note it was a rolling start) so acceleration may have been a bit more brisk? The other charts I put in that thread don't have any gear changes that high, but they were all picking out moments where the clutches went wacko, so I should prefer to look at more of my regular data to draw a conclusion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor1

Apparently the power shift has adaptive learning,BUT when it is reset by the repairer they take it for a long drive to set the perameters for the shifts.
BUT if the memory is set by the first driver what happens when the owner takes the car and drives differently to the first driver??????
If this in fact is truely correct the car should be driven by the intended driver under instruction by the ford repairer.

My understanding and belief is the adaptive learning is continuous and applies to the clutches: it learns where the take-up point is to give and maintain smooth shifts. I'd be very surprised if the initial learning process a) could cause it to drastically alter the RPMs of shift points and b) is immutable. But the system was designed by smarter engineers than I, so it's quite possible I'm wrong.

rondeo · 15-07-2016, 10:22 AM

The gearshift control system uses (non-adaptive) software algorithms which take into account driving conditions and driver input.

The TCM controls and adapts to the mechanics of gear change by monitoring hydraulic pressures, shaft speeds and selector fork positions. Relevant data is stored in non volatile RAM.

At least that's what I gather from looking at the text in the manual, just letters and numbers after all.

I inferred that the TCM software remains the same (but makes decisions based on variable inputs from the mechanical system).

When 'S' is selected the software just switches to another algorithm, using the same data in RAM to control the gearshifts.

So no, the TCM does not adapt to the driver, it adapts to the gearbox?

bundybear75 · 17-07-2016, 07:55 AM

After reading this thread, I paid more attention to the shift points on my MC, seems to shift in the lower gears (1->2 & 2->3) around the 2800 RPM mark that Mondaveo has plotted, especially if going around a corner.

After it has warmed up it does seem to shift a little lower, and definitely shifts at lower RPM's in the higher gears

Binny · 19-07-2016, 07:29 PM

I'd be getting it looked at. Mine shifts at close to 3000 in the first couple of gears under some circumstances but mostly it's much lower. For example it will do it when dead cold first thing in the morning and when accelerating up a couple of the hills around my place.

When it is warmed up and especially when I am in the usual heavy traffic it will shift 1->2 and 2->3 at under 2000rpm. Sometimes it is slurring into second befoer teh car has even moved a car length. Though it can vary and sometimes it will hold gears longer under exactly the same circumstances for whatever reason.

I think there are many inputs it takes into account when deciding on when to shift. Things like perhaps speed, engine speed, engine temp, gearbox temp, ambient temp, throttle position, torque output, turbo boost etc.

Perhaps your new TCM isn't receiving one of these inputs correctly? For example if it thinks the engine is cold all the time it may stay in cold running mode and hold gears for longer?

whitelion65 · 20-07-2016, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundybear75

After reading this thread, I paid more attention to the shift points on my MC, seems to shift in the lower gears (1->2 & 2->3) around the 2800 RPM mark that Mondaveo has plotted, especially if going around a corner.

After it has warmed up it does seem to shift a little lower, and definitely shifts at lower RPM's in the higher gears

Yep, drove mine on the weekend, and she's shifting up at around 2,800rpm.
If I shift manually, I do so at around 2k.
Sorry for the confusion.