Hoist hire

[SB076]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

And to get back on topic, I think the hoist hire thing is a legal minefield, as people using the equipment will not be trained in its correct usage, what if someone drops a gearbox or car on their head??? Even just getting oil or brake fluid on your skin or into your eyes..

Would be great in theory, and yes I would use the service as well, as a matter of fact I would be there in a flash with a permanent booking...

My dream is still to buy my own hoist, unfortunatly like most it is not the cost of the hoist but the lack of space to put it....but I am working on that...

I agree, I doubt anyone would hire out a hoist due to legal/insurance issues. Might be best to find someone with a reasonable amount of land for a shed, or a vacant small factory.

Originally Posted by SB076

I agree, I doubt anyone would hire out a hoist due to legal/insurance issues. Might be best to find someone with a reasonable amount of land for a shed, or a vacant small factory.

Someone does. The mob in Dubbo, for $21.50 per 30 minutes. Check the link in the 1st post.

Obviously it's not THAT restrictive. I can see the legal problems, but they've somehow gotten over it and not had to pass a huge cost onto consumers.

[v8boss]

Originally Posted by Shounak

v8boss, you're such a superior human being. I want you to have my babies. You'd be willing to testify that every mechanic takes the same amount of care you do? I don't think so.

Good rebuttal! Insults are such a mature way of showing your intelligence. My point was that it is not NECESSARY in my opinion to carry out a routine service in such a way as you described. You slagged off at mechanics for not doing the things you do, so I defended the other guys in the trade who can't speak for themselves.

Now read this bit carefully. YES, you are right when you say there are cowboys out there as well. i have seen some atrocious work come into my shop from other workshops to be rectified properly. There are also some atrocious practices going on in the building industry, healthcare, IT, HR and heaps of other acronyms you care to name. I guess the lesson is, to find someone who you think you can trust, pay them well, dont scrimp or whinge about the bill, let them know you are fussy, and be willing to pay more for a service than your average backyarder charges. Then we will all be happy

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Shounak

Again, read carefully. I didn't say I was better than most, I said that I would do a better job than most.

No you wouldnt,I suppose they did an apprenticeship for nothing..

Originally Posted by Shounak

If my gearbox blew, I'd buy another one and whack it in myself. I might come on here for some advice, if it was called for.

Really..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11221933

Now as for the topic at hand,I dont see a hoist as being a big deal for small things like oil changes,I do fine with my trolley jack and stands,for bigger jobs underbody,maybe... but I get by..

[v8boss]

Originally Posted by nugget378

No you wouldnt,I suppose they did an apprenticeship for nothing..

Really..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11221933

Now as for the topic at hand,I dont see a hoist as being a big deal for small things like oil changes,I do fine with my trolley jack and stands,for bigger jobs underbody,maybe... but I get by..

maybe I'm getting old. Ive been known to put a car up just to change a bulb! Couldn't do without these babies. But you are right Nugget. There are some guys on here doing awesome work without any of these niceties, including yourself. Daveman springs to mind. Look at his thread to see what can be achieved.

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by nugget378

No you wouldnt,I suppose they did an apprenticeship for nothing..

Really..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11221933

Now as for the topic at hand,I dont see a hoist as being a big deal for small things like oil changes,I do fine with my trolley jack and stands,for bigger jobs underbody,maybe... but I get by..

I am not sure I get your point...of course he would do a better job as you do not to complete an apprenticeship to be able to drain fluids out of your car, I am sure I do a better service on my car than most mechanics would, as they will simply not take the time to drain all of the oil out, as they are trying to rush through as many cars as they can in a day(I often leave mine drain overnight) as they have no vested interest in the car. This trying to maxemise profits thing obviously leads to them not inspecting everything correctly at times.

It is my car and I carry myself and my family in it, so I make sure it is 100%, if a hose shows the slightest wear or softeness it gets replaced, all filters get replaced as required, oil and filter gets changed every 5000km or prior to track days regardless of milage. As the above mechanic has already admitted he does not have the time do do this or he would have to charge heaps for the work(as he is not getting as many cars done in a day). So by doing it yourself you do not have these restrictions, and you can take your time and obviously do a better job than what a mechanic will, nothing to do with apprenticeships or skill. If you need an apprenticeship to change some oil and lube your vehicle you have some serious issues.....

I am not really sure what you are on about, you saying you prefer to use a trolley jack and car stands over a hoist??? Of course you can get away with out one, we all do, but if that is your way of looking at things why do you need a bed when you can sleep on the floor?? Or why use a boat when you can swim, why use stove when you can make a fire, why use a lighter to light the fire when you can rub two stones together....I have a feeling you just want to be argumentative in this topic.

This person has simply come up with a good idea and a possibly better way of doing things and he is sharing it with the Ford community that get on this forum, and yes I been using a trolley jack and stands for 25 years, but would still love to use a hoist, and one day will own one as soon as space permitts, but I guess you would not be interested to come over and use it would you???

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

I am not sure I get your point...of course he would do a better job as you do not to complete an apprenticeship to be able to drain fluids out of your car, I am sure I do a better service on my car than most mechanics would, as they will simply not take the time to drain all of the oil out, as they are trying to rush through as many cars as they can in a day(I often leave mine drain overnight) as they have no vested interest in the car. This trying to maxemise profits thing obviously leads to them not inspecting everything correctly at times.

It is my car and I carry myself and my family in it, so I make sure it is 100%, if a hose shows the slightest wear or softeness it gets replaced, all filters get replaced as required, oil and filter gets changed every 5000km or prior to track days regardless of milage. As the above mechanic has already admitted he does not have the time do do this or he would have to charge heaps for the work(as he is not getting as many cars done in a day). So by doing it yourself you do not have these restrictions, and you can take your time and obviously do a better job than what a mechanic will, nothing to do with apprenticeships or skill. If you need an apprenticeship to change some oil and lube your vehicle you have some serious issues.....

I am not really sure what you are on about, you saying you prefer to use a trolley jack and car stands over a hoist??? Of course you can get away with out one, we all do, but if that is your way of looking at things why do you need a bed when you can sleep on the floor?? Or why use a boat when you can swim, why use stove when you can make a fire, why use a lighter to light the fire when you can rub two stones together....I have a feeling you just want to be argumentative in this topic.

This person has simply come up with a good idea and a possibly better way of doing things and he is sharing it with the Ford community that get on this forum, and yes I been using a trolley jack and stands for 25 years, but would still love to use a hoist, and one day will own one as soon as space permitts, but I guess you would not be interested to come over and use it would you???

Thats not my point at all,who wouldnt want a hoist,my point is a blanket statement that every mechanic is dodgy is WRONG,same as saying all plumbers charge too much,if we did I'd be a millionaire..

Originally Posted by nugget378

No you wouldnt,I suppose they did an apprenticeship for nothing..

Really..

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11221933

Now as for the topic at hand,I dont see a hoist as being a big deal for small things like oil changes,I do fine with my trolley jack and stands,for bigger jobs underbody,maybe... but I get by..

You talk with such certainty. Yet, you STILL fail to understand my very basic point. I would have a better time trying to explain it to my 5 year old cousin.

I'm not questioning their skill you twit. Have a read of my posts.

I took the plunge and did it with my mate. I thought what the hell, why not just give it a crack myself and we did just fine.

That was a project car anyway, a $120 panel van. I would never take my own car to a cheap workshop. And yes, the job was properly done by me. Turns out it really isn't that hard.

Don't accuse me of things that are incorrect, if you don't have the basic facts. Keep your trap shut. You have no idea about my level of car knowledge, so I would say the personal references should end here.

Try change the oil on Euro cars, like my mums MG ZT. It has a 30cm hinged sump guard, which makes a hoist a must. To do a tranny oil change, it needs to be perfectly level and sufficiently high to again, drop the plastic.

Even then, I didn't say a hoist is 100% necesary for me. I simply said it would be awesome if a hoist was available. I cbf cleaning up a huge amount of mess with tranny oil changes, so I just pay to get it done.

I would find it preferable to do it with a hoist than to pay someone else to do it. Simple as that.

You're just digging yourself in, deeper and deeper. I reiterate, go have another read of my posts and let's see what you can come up with next.

Friggin thread vandal.

Originally Posted by nugget378

Thats not my point at all,who wouldnt want a hoist,my point is a blanket statement that every mechanic is dodgy is WRONG,same as saying all plumbers charge too much,if we did I'd be a millionaire..

Again, you're attacking an argument no-one used. You've created an extreme argument which is categorically false and torn it down.

You're making these ridiuclous straw man arguments which are just further proving your stupidity.

No-one's saying all mechanics are dodgy. Simple that our opinion is that we'd be more diligent with our own cars than many mechanics would. Simple.

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by nugget378

Thats not my point at all,who wouldnt want a hoist,my point is a blanket statement that every mechanic is dodgy is WRONG,same as saying all plumbers charge too much,if we did I'd be a millionaire..

I agree that possibly not all mechanics are dodgy, and not all tradesmen are dodgy, but there are a lot that are, some may lack skill, some may lack care, some may just be having a bad day. I too worked as a tradie for 20 years in the construction industry, and some of the things I have seen these people should be behind bars....while others are good, very few are very good, and a great percentage are average.

I unfortunatly do not like average or good, average is just that average, so if a large percentage of the population are bad, that makes the average person within that population bad.

I had my cholesterol checked recently, and the doctor told me it was average (true story this) I was horrified, I said to him what do you mean its average??? If the average person is a fat slob dying of heart disease it means I am dying as well.....the doctor laught and said" no I mean its good you do not have any problems" I was relieved and went home happy.

If you need anything done you need to find the person that is well above average, and then hope he is not having a bad day when he does your job.

Hope you understand what I am trying to say....not sure if it makes sense to anyone else..or this explains it properly???

Originally Posted by v8boss

Good rebuttal! Insults are such a mature way of showing your intelligence. My point was that it is not NECESSARY in my opinion to carry out a routine service in such a way as you described. You slagged off at mechanics for not doing the things you do, so I defended the other guys in the trade who can't speak for themselves.

Now read this bit carefully. YES, you are right when you say there are cowboys out there as well. i have seen some atrocious work come into my shop from other workshops to be rectified properly. There are also some atrocious practices going on in the building industry, healthcare, IT, HR and heaps of other acronyms you care to name. I guess the lesson is, to find someone who you think you can trust, pay them well, dont scrimp or whinge about the bill, let them know you are fussy, and be willing to pay more for a service than your average backyarder charges. Then we will all be happy

Instead of leap frogging about trying to find the perfect workshop with my $25,000 piece of machinery, I could just guarantee the job is done right the first time by doing it myself. I've been to plenty of mechanical workshops who have done shoddy work and I've never returned there.

I'm not rubbishing the mechanical trade, I'm saying there are certain jobs where I would be more diligent than your average punter. A small percentage of mechanics would be even more diligent than me.

But I'll give you an example of coolant flushes with my old VX. Every 2 years I would remove the thermostat, properly flush the whole block, heater core and have it all back in perfectly.

Most mechanics wouldn't do that. Not because they lack the skill, but because they don't have the time and to do so would cost heaps.

This extra level of diligence I show can be applied to things like services also. I care more about the car than someone else. I will look over the car much more throughly as a result of my vested interest.

Plenty of literature has been written on the "principal-agent dilemna", you should have a read.

Also, the reason you don't take your car to another mechanic for servicing is that you have the knowledge. Well guess what, I've got the knowledge to service and check my own car. I don't have the hoist, which would be a bonus if I did.

That's it.

See if you can find the part where I slagged off all mechanics? Refer to straw man argument above.

[rag top]

Check out this setup - this is what I need for my home!
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/ah0073?slid=167244932

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by rag top

Check out this setup - this is what I need for my home!
http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/ah0073?slid=167244932

Nice!!!!!!!Could not find a price....how much?????

[rag top]

Originally Posted by FPV GT40

Nice!!!!!!!Could not find a price....how much?????

Auction unfortunately... and it is the wrong side of town for me.

[v8boss]

Originally Posted by Shounak

See if you can find the part where I slagged off all mechanics? Refer to straw man argument above.

I dont want to get into an argument about something we both agree on, ie hoists are great. But you did slag off at mechanics in post 27, saying that they arent diligent. Mechanics in the big dealer workshops are under an immense amount of pressure to get time booked out. For this reason i would recommend finding a workshop that doesnt work like this, instead has the customers best interests in mind. Like mine. People are happy to go the extra mile as long as the customer is willing to pay for it. Unfortunatley in this world we live in, people are sometimes looking for too much while wanting to pay too little. There is a saying which goes "you can have it fast, cheap or done well. You can only choose two out of the three". In my experience, the workshops and mechanics that do really well in business are the one that do the first and last, not the middle.

As for the rocket scientist that leaves his oil draining overnight, I think that is a very bad practice, especially if the car is sitting just up on stands. I personlly wouldnt leave my engine open to dust and foriegn bodies for any longer than is necessary. That is another reason why we dont wait for the drips of oil to stop coming out of the sump before refitting a sump plug. Mate, have you ever removed a sump after draining all the oil? There is still at least a cupfull of oil remaining in most pressed steel sumps, if not more. This isnt coming out by leaving your drain plug out, no matter how long you leave it!

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Shounak

You talk with such certainty. Yet, you STILL fail to understand my very basic point. I would have a better time trying to explain it to my 5 year old cousin.

I'm not questioning their skill you twit. Have a read of my posts.

I took the plunge and did it with my mate. I thought what the hell, why not just give it a crack myself and we did just fine.

That was a project car anyway, a $120 panel van. I would never take my own car to a cheap workshop. And yes, the job was properly done by me. Turns out it really isn't that hard.

Don't accuse me of things that are incorrect, if you don't have the basic facts. Keep your trap shut. You have no idea about my level of car knowledge, so I would say the personal references should end here.

Try change the oil on Euro cars, like my mums MG ZT. It has a 30cm hinged sump guard, which makes a hoist a must. To do a tranny oil change, it needs to be perfectly level and sufficiently high to again, drop the plastic.

Even then, I didn't say a hoist is 100% necesary for me. I simply said it would be awesome if a hoist was available. I cbf cleaning up a huge amount of mess with tranny oil changes, so I just pay to get it done.

I would find it preferable to do it with a hoist than to pay someone else to do it. Simple as that.

You're just digging yourself in, deeper and deeper. I reiterate, go have another read of my posts and let's see what you can come up with next.

Friggin thread vandal.

Yes mate Im certain any old lube mobile mechanic would do a hundred times better than you,a 22yr old wet behind the ears know it all with an inflated sense of ego..

[Falcon Coupe]

Shounak, drop the attitude and the insults or your stay here will be short.
It's not necessary to get a point across.

[Unco]

Originally Posted by v8boss

I dont want to get into an argument about something we both agree on, ie hoists are great. But you did slag off at mechanics in post 27, saying that they arent diligent. Mechanics in the big dealer workshops are under an immense amount of pressure to get time booked out. For this reason i would recommend finding a workshop that doesnt work like this, instead has the customers best interests in mind. Like mine. People are happy to go the extra mile as long as the customer is willing to pay for it. Unfortunatley in this world we live in, people are sometimes looking for too much while wanting to pay too little. There is a saying which goes "you can have it fast, cheap or done well. You can only choose two out of the three". In my experience, the workshops and mechanics that do really well in business are the one that do the first and last, not the middle.

As for the rocket scientist that leaves his oil draining overnight, I think that is a very bad practice, especially if the car is sitting just up on stands. I personlly wouldnt leave my engine open to dust and foriegn bodies for any longer than is necessary. That is another reason why we dont wait for the drips of oil to stop coming out of the sump before refitting a sump plug. Mate, have you ever removed a sump after draining all the oil? There is still at least a cupfull of oil remaining in most pressed steel sumps, if not more. This isnt coming out by leaving your drain plug out, no matter how long you leave it!

GOLD!

you've hit the nail on the head. what a sad turn this thread has taken. it could have been a peaceful thread about workshop equipment hire, were it not for the slagging off and displays of 'nobody does it better than me' from people who have spent ZERO time in the trade.

hoists are nice. if one is throwing that much cash into an already expensive vehicle to the point of replacing anything that shows the slightest wear on it, surely one could find a bigger house if one's current dwelling didn't provide enough room for a hoist.

personally, since i left the trade, i have replaced FWD transmissions and in the last 18months, the FMX on my P6 using a floor jack and stands. it just takes a little bit of extra effort and determination rather than a big mouth.

Originally Posted by v8boss

I dont want to get into an argument about something we both agree on, ie hoists are great. But you did slag off at mechanics in post 27, saying that they arent diligent.

I didn't say they're not diligent.

I'd rather pay $21.50 to do it myself than take the risk of a "qualified" mechanic go at it without due diligence.

I said I didn't want to take the risk of taking it to a mechanic who doesn't exercise due diligence. That's not to say that mechanics aren't diligent. But a certain proportion of mechanics are not.

I don't think we even have anything to argue about. We both agree that there are mechanics who don't exercise due diligence, but neither of us knows the percentage of diligent/careless mechanics.

If you're as good as you say you are. I would happily take my car to you, but I would prefer to do it myself for cheaper even more.

I think this whole thing has boiled down to risk aversion. I've had many bad experiences with mechanics and would prefer to guarantee 100% that it's done right the first time than to take a risk with a new mechanic.

The moment people realise I'm not casting aspersions on the whole trade, is the moment that this thread becomes a lot more relevant.

Originally Posted by nugget378

Yes mate Im certain any old lube mobile mechanic would do a hundred times better than you,a 22yr old wet behind the ears know it all with an inflated sense of ego..

My apologies for calling you a twit.

I no longer have the need to insult you.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by Shounak

My apologies for calling you a twit.

I no longer have the need to insult you.

A rather curiously worded "apology".

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by Abacus

A rather curiously worded "apology".

Indeed...

[Jack91]

I think you all need to take a chill pill. Both opinions are right:

Shounak is right about only him wasting time to do the meaningless stuff that mechanics wont do (be it unnecessary or too time consuming), its like, when I vaccuum the car, I get every nook and cranny, and if something wont come out, ill stay there till it does, cos its my car and I want it done that way, even though it doesnt need to be.

Everyone else is right because in order to do the time consuming, meaningless tasks, would require much more labour costs, which people like Shounak, I'm guessing, wouldnt like to be slung with. However, if Shounak was willing from the get go to PAY the extra costs, then all is well.

I dont think Shounak meant to insult all mechanics on here, obviousely to be part of a car club and an online forum says something about your desire for cars, and if you have that sort of passion, theres no doubt you're going to do the job properly and quickly, thus minimizing costs for people like Shounak. Besides, you mechanics have nothing to complain about RE descrimination, TRY BEING A P PLATER!

Someone buy this man a beer.

[v8boss]

Its unfortunate that you have had so many bad experiences, although I do wonder if your expectations of what you are getting for your money are too high? It is something we unfortunatly come across in the trade, but we must shoulder some of the blame, as I feel we could educate people better, ie the importance of replacing cambelts is reasonably well understood in the retail world, but the just as important (if not more so) point of flushing and replaceing fluids such as coolant, brake and transmission is not. My point is that we would happily carry out workmanship to the standard that YOU ask for on everyones car, but the vast majority of the public will not stand to spend the sort of dollars it would cost to maintain their cars like this.Trust me, there is nothing that I love more than a customer who comes in with the "fix it, to hell with the cost" mentality. Its not because I am going to make a fortune out of him, it is because I have found a like minded person who wants his car to as well maintained as it can possibly be, with the most care and attention that I can lavish on it. Usually on these jobs I make a smaller percentage margin just because you end up doing so much to the vehicle, that you want to keep your customer happy as possible, so we end up reducing our margins where possible.But to be able to cater to everyone, we have found ways to do a job quicker than the average home mechanic, ie use hoists to gain access to the underside, use coolant flushing machines rather than removing thermostats, hook up scanners to diagnostic ports rather than replacing heaps of parts in the vain hope that we will fix the car. And all of these nice gizmos come at a cost. To open the doors of my workshop costs me just over $1000 PER DAY! My advice if you are struggling to find a mechanic you trust, dont look in the yellow pages, or the internet. Ask like minded enthusiasts where they get their car serviced. The cream usually floats to the top.

[FPV GT40]

Originally Posted by Unco

hoists are nice. if one is throwing that much cash into an already expensive vehicle to the point of replacing anything that shows the slightest wear on it, surely one could find a bigger house if one's current dwelling didn't provide enough room for a hoist.

personally, since i left the trade, i have replaced FWD transmissions and in the last 18months, the FMX on my P6 using a floor jack and stands. it just takes a little bit of extra effort and determination rather than a big mouth.

You guys are such heroes....I have lost count of the number of gearboxes and engines I have changed without a hoist, and thats before you start talking clutches, even down to making a full stainless steel exhaust system for my street/strip car, fitting V8 headers and the list goes rebuilding suspension, changing springs etc etc, you name the job and I have done it right down to several full rebuilds of cars, and doing another one as we speak.

What does replacing a $10 hose that is about to let go while I am under the car or in the engine bay have to do with the house I live in or may be able to afford, my 50 plus square house is with four car garage is currently big enough for me, but unfortunatly all spaces are taken up with cars and bikes at the moment, and the ceiling height is not enough to allow the use of a hoist.

Once I build my new house, will be building a decent size garage so I can expand my car/bike collection, and I will make sure that I allow for installation of a hoist as part of the construction of the house, that way I will be able to get the other cars I want.....

I don't see the point in paying $70 p/h for a service I can quite easily do myself. That's the other point.

Let's just say I paid you a bit extra to grease my caliper slides (I was a bit suprised with your response), I'm down $100. When I'd do the same job myself at home and I'm guaranteed it's done right, for free (ignoring opportunity cost because I love changing brakes)

Expectations too high? When I bring a car that's leaking coolant everywhere and scored discs with pads to metal for a minor service, I expect the mechanic would check it. Especially when the invoice says it's been checked. Just one example of a bad fish, that caused me to develop my knowledge and learn to do stuff.

I'm not expecting mechanics to treat my car with the same level of care I am, that's why I do it myself. Now that the warranty on the XR8 is finished, I've just flushed the cooling system myself, I also changed the front discs and pads. Anything that needs changing will be done by me.

You keep talking about finding a good mechanic, do you take your car somewhere else to get serviced? That's a no, because you have the sufficient skill to drop a sump plug. Why should I pay $70 an hour for a job I can do at home in my spare time and it actually provides me with pleasure.

To build on that, a hoist makes my job easier. I would be willing to pay for access to such machinery for a price.

You mechanics really seem to have a problem with people doing it at home.

I'm not struggling to find a mechanic I trust, because I'm not even searching. I have no reason to take my car to a mechanic, but I'd rather pay $21.50 per 30minutes to have my car up, than spend ages jacking it up and working with crappy clearance.

It really is as simple as that.

Mods, feel free to merge this thread into the other one if appropriate.

Question is, if you had access to a hoist for $21.50 for half an hour (all tools supplied), would you use it to do work on your own car?

This could be servicing, brakes, check ups, exhaust fitting, etc.

Or would you rather just pay a mechanic to do it?

This isn't crap stirring, I just want to gauge interest out of curiosity.

I'd prefer no arguments here.

[reece1]

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Its bad enough booking customers in for 1st thing in the morning and having them turn up at 11.30 and wondering why there car will have to wait till you finish the job on the hoist when you told them on the phone you would do it while they wait

I would say "some" mechanics at best, most mechanics look after customers cars as there own if not better, I know I always did.

well said, in our area we deal with alot of mechanics and i would say at least 90 percent are doing the right thing by there customers if not more. most mechanics works on repeat buisness so its in our interest to do 100 percent