Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > Non Ford Related Community Forums > The Bar

The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat

View Poll Results: For or against - anonymous poll
Yes, I have no problem with it. 124 96.12%
No way, I don't agree with it at all. 5 3.88%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17-01-2017, 11:55 PM   #61
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

All my dogs have all given unconditional love everyday of their lives. Very few humans even know what the word means so I view animals welfare very seriously. My sweet Doberman became ill 18 months ago with heart disease and as soon as it became apparent she was not going to recover, I lay on the floor with her whilst the lovely Dr gave her a sedative so when she did administer the sodium pentobarbital, my sweet girl drifted off with my words of love in her ears. I lay there for an hour before leaving. It was the hardest thing I have done but it doesn't compare to the pain that keeping her alive would have caused. People need to know when to say goodbye to a loved pet and I believe a person with a terminal illness should have the same right to request an ending to life on earth as they see fit.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 12:10 AM   #62
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superyob View Post
The argument that you would put an animal down if it was suffering the same affliction is not a valid argument as it reduces the life of a human to that of equal importance to a dog, cat or budgie's...
Humans do disgraceful things to each other and to animals. We have domesticated animals to feed us, work for us and for companionship. We have a duty of care and a responsibility to care for all life equally. I spent $30,000 on my Doberman during her 10 years of life. She had a back surgery $18,000 when she was 7 which gave her 3 pain free years with us. I then spent another $10,000 before she died and no, I didn't keep her alive, as soon as it was obvious, I made the decision. Why? Because its the humane thing to do. When you start placing a price on a life, well, you know the rest. That dog did more for my soul than anything could, no amount of money was too much. Besides, my wife & I have never had children, we prefer to take in unwanted dogs. Its the least I can do, and there is the old saying, you can tell a lot about a city and its people by the way they treat their animals.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 08:40 AM   #63
superyob
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,315
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8cam View Post
Humans do disgraceful things to each other and to animals. We have domesticated animals to feed us, work for us and for companionship. We have a duty of care and a responsibility to care for all life equally. I spent $30,000 on my Doberman during her 10 years of life. She had a back surgery $18,000 when she was 7 which gave her 3 pain free years with us. I then spent another $10,000 before she died and no, I didn't keep her alive, as soon as it was obvious, I made the decision. Why? Because its the humane thing to do. When you start placing a price on a life, well, you know the rest. That dog did more for my soul than anything could, no amount of money was too much. Besides, my wife & I have never had children, we prefer to take in unwanted dogs. Its the least I can do, and there is the old saying, you can tell a lot about a city and its people by the way they treat their animals.
xr8cam, I am going to make myself as unpopular as a pork chop in a synagogue here, but animal life is not equal to a human life. Not even close. Your concept of equality has superseded reality if you think spending 30 thousand dollars on a dog is a humane thing to do. I have no doubt that you loved your dog and I understand that but I am sure there are many hungry mouths that would be not so understanding. I would lay waste to the entire animal kingdom to protect my children. Most parents would.

I also disagree with 'the old saying' as there is no correlation between how people treat animals as to how they treat humans. I believe this is a cop out to justify treating animals better than humans. Adolph Hitler loved his 2 German Sheppards...

Euthanasia as a legislative concept is not needed for animals because they are nowhere near as important as human life. Applying it to humans is a dangerous endeavour...
superyob is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 10:29 AM   #64
Junkyard-Dog
Far Quit
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 572
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superyob View Post

I also disagree with 'the old saying' as there is no correlation between how people treat animals as to how they treat humans. I believe this is a cop out to justify treating animals better than humans. Adolph Hitler loved his 2 German Sheppards...
and Joseph Stalin had children, who I'm sure he loved...

Bringing Hitler into this conversation is ludicrous and pointless.
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 11:06 AM   #65
Maka
au falcon=mr reliable
 
Maka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 2,817
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Embodiment of the AFF spirit in his efforts with ACP. 
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog View Post
and Joseph Stalin had children, who I'm sure he loved...

Bringing Hitler into this conversation is ludicrous and pointless.
Imo go check your history books on that comment please, google aktion & see what comes up..

cheer's, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792

AU1 XR6 VCT - And while they're stablemates to the XR8, you'd also have to look at an AU XR6 and XR6 VCT (the latter had the variable-valve timing version of Ford's in-line six). A six-cylinder might sound a bit underdone but it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes
almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel. (Drive.com 2007)

Love your AU Ford!
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 01:33 PM   #66
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

[QUOTE=superyob;5856337]xr8cam, I am going to make myself as unpopular as a pork chop in a synagogue here, but animal life is not equal to a human life. Not even close. Your concept of equality has superseded reality if you think spending 30 thousand dollars on a dog is a humane thing to do. I have no doubt that you loved your dog and I understand that but I am sure there are many hungry mouths that would be not so understanding. I would lay waste to the entire animal kingdom to protect my children. Most parents would.

I also disagree with 'the old saying' as there is no correlation between how people treat animals as to how they treat humans. I believe this is a cop out to justify treating animals better than humans. Adolph Hitler loved his 2 German Sheppards...

Euthanasia as a legislative concept is not needed for animals because they are nowhere near as important as human life. Applying it to humans is a dangerous endeavour...[/QUote
Tell your beliefs to blind dog owners and people with assistance dogs and when children go missing, the tracking dogs that find them.Your entitled to your opinion and like mine, thats all it is. Actions are what matters and I will always act when I see animal abuse because, they need us to act for them. People can act for themselves, and that is the big point most miss.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 18-01-2017, 02:26 PM   #67
asagaai
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 1,138
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

I answered the poll yes- no issue with euthanasia and then realised that it is a bit too simplistic a poll.

My gran on my moms side developed bowel cancer-had a horrific passing I am told. The Hospital kept her alive and the suffering that I have heard she went through I do not want to detail. It was some 30 years ago, and pain medications and palliative care has improved, but some of her suffering was not to do with pain.

My mother in law developed cancer, spread from liver to spine and lungs about 4 years ago. Eventually the cancer ate through her spine and she lost use of her legs, and so was hospitalised as her husband could not care for her (he had health issues with heart). She was German- and said to the Physician in charge, when he was doing some medications tuning, - ah why bother- lets just get on with it and get to the end point quickly.

She ended up passing in her sleep-under heavy medication and I thought that the levels of medications administered assisted in her passing. She was a very bright lady, lost none of her faculties, and I cannot help think that the doctors and nursing staff took account of her wishes. From my perspective, this was the correct approach by the profession and unsaid "societal" ethics in this situation.

My father, who was a sailor in the navy and did professional boxing for the forces, and was a mean hard vicious nut to his sons, used to fight in heavier weight categories, and he is now paying for it, with a form of alzheimers.

We have a LOT of baggage between us, and at my brothers house on boxing day he misunderstood that the holiday "boxing day" was a day set for him to punch my wine glass into my face when I was sitting down.

Where I am heading is- in his situation of loosing his faculties, if you were a person with serious gripes and beef, query if people could too readily euthanize that person to get rid of the problem.

I have no issue with the mother in law being "euthanized" the way she was, it was her choice and she was still sharp as a tack in the mind, but with a person who is loosing their conscious mind to make a choice- it does not sit comfortably with me in that category, where other people make the decision for them.

So I say yes to euthanasia provided a person has mental capacity to make an informed decision, and there are safeguards.
__________________
Ford Rides:
Cortina GT 1600 manual, DCOE webbers, cam, headwork, high compression, extractors-loud spitty carbie fun

Ford TE 4.1 litre manual, alloy head, headwork, waggot cam, holley 350, extractors, tyre spinning fun that handled like a drunken slug on amphetamines

Ford Festiva 1.3 - married-still alive???

Now

FG X XR8 smoke manual - Miami hand built masterpiece by David Winter, BMC Filter, JLT Oil separators, Street Fighter Intercooler Stage 2, crushed ball
asagaai is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 03:50 PM   #68
Junkyard-Dog
Far Quit
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 572
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maka View Post
Imo go check your history books on that comment please, google aktion & see what comes up..

cheer's, Maka
I have my undergraduate's degree in "Empires in World History" and am currently completing my degree in "Ethnic Cleansing & Genocide in History." I spend enough/too much time checking the "history books" as it is.

Many sick and disabled people died in the T4 program but that is the only common link between the T4 program and the topic of this thread. T4 simply was not "Euthanasia" whichever way you look at it. Euthanasia = "good death" (Greek).

Therefore the T4 program is not particularly relevant to this thread, which has largely concerned euthanasia for humane reasons - rather than murder. The victims of the T4 Program had absolutely no choice in the matter, whereas the overall theme of this thread has indicated that the final decisions about life and death should be up to the person that is suffering.
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 18-01-2017, 08:13 PM   #69
The Yeti
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
The Yeti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,027
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEZG View Post
My mother was in care for a while, in the end she wanted to go, they just gave her pain meds only, she went soon and didn't suffer too long.

My sister now has stage 4 lung cancer, she also has it in her brain, bones and lymph glands, prognosis is she has up to 2 yrs.

She is a clinical nurse consultant and has said she'll consider her options regarding treatment options when the time comes, by this she meant not having treatment that makes you feel worse when you've no chance of recovery.
She's also not into using heavy drugs that knock you out, not sure what she'll do about that one.
My mum is in a similar situation to your sister. Back in 2011 she was given 12 weeks if she did nothing and 20% of making 12 months, she had 4 good years but the last 18 months has been really hard on her

My uncle was told 5 years ago he'd be right after they cut out a mole, 12 months later I watched him turn from a reasonably healthy guy in his late 60s to an unconscious twisted man who dragged on for ages before finally passing away

I'm for euthanasia 100%
__________________
Pariahs C.C.
What could possibly go wrong
The Yeti is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 18-01-2017, 08:14 PM   #70
ronwest
All Bran = Regular Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BrizVegas
Posts: 1,830
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Writing tech articles 
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xr8cam View Post
Your entitled to your opinion and like mine, thats all it is.
It's also your money
__________________

ronwest is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 08:36 PM   #71
Maka
au falcon=mr reliable
 
Maka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 2,817
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Embodiment of the AFF spirit in his efforts with ACP. 
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog View Post
I have my undergraduate's degree in "Empires in World History" and am currently completing my degree in "Ethnic Cleansing & Genocide in History." I spend enough/too much time checking the "history books" as it is.

Many sick and disabled people died in the T4 program but that is the only common link between the T4 program and the topic of this thread. T4 simply was not "Euthanasia" whichever way you look at it. Euthanasia = "good death" (Greek).

Therefore the T4 program is not particularly relevant to this thread, which has largely concerned euthanasia for humane reasons - rather than murder. The victims of the T4 Program had absolutely no choice in the matter, whereas the overall theme of this thread has indicated that the final decisions about life and death should be up to the person that is suffering.
Hi JD, my concern is imo anything is possible in this day & age & in the near future. These new concepts of fake news, post truth, whistleblower laws etc is creeping to become "normal". Those new "norms" do not instill confidence in me considering what is happening around the world ATM & potentially what can happen in the future..

I just now lost my father in law to cancer, so yes I share the same humane opinion expressed by many in previous posts. Independent organisation & (if possible) regulator would get my approval.

cheer's, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792

AU1 XR6 VCT - And while they're stablemates to the XR8, you'd also have to look at an AU XR6 and XR6 VCT (the latter had the variable-valve timing version of Ford's in-line six). A six-cylinder might sound a bit underdone but it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes
almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel. (Drive.com 2007)

Love your AU Ford!
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-01-2017, 08:51 PM   #72
Junkyard-Dog
Far Quit
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 572
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maka View Post
Hi JD, my concern is imo anything is possible in this day & age & in the near future. These new concepts of fake news, post truth, whistleblower laws etc is creeping to become "normal". Those new "norms" do not instill confidence in me considering what is happening around the world ATM & potentially what can happen in the future..

I just now lost my father in law to cancer, so yes I share the same humane opinion expressed by many in previous posts. Independent organisation & (if possible) regulator would get my approval.

cheer's, Maka
Hey Maka, I sensed that your rhetoric was along those lines and I fully understand the position you are coming from. You have certainly raised a thought-provoking narrative.

Overall, I think that there are so many social, economic and cultural differences between Australia of today and the Germany of ~80 years ago that a truly objective comparison between the two societies is an impossibility by it's very nature. The only reason the T4 Program could be initiated was due to the autocratic nature of the German government in that day and age. I find it hard to even imagine a similar operation being propagated by any modern democratic nation.

I'm sorry for your loss. All the best to you and your family.
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 19-01-2017, 02:08 AM   #73
xr8cam
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney
Posts: 653
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ronwest View Post
It's also your money
Thats it. Its just a form of currency. All the people I know who are driven by wealth are all miserable. You can't take it with you so enjoy life to the fullest.
xr8cam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-01-2017, 06:38 AM   #74
superyob
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,315
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog View Post
and Joseph Stalin had children, who I'm sure he loved...

Bringing Hitler into this conversation is ludicrous and pointless.
I thought the connection was obvious, a horrible person who hated humans but loved animals which is in direct contradiction to a claim made by xr8cam. But whatever...

Last edited by superyob; 19-01-2017 at 06:47 AM.
superyob is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-01-2017, 09:31 AM   #75
jpblue1000
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpblue1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: London
Posts: 2,078
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

I'm for it, and dont see any minefield if legislative problems. Typically every individual needs to confront their fate. We will all die! Some too early! But with forethought that individual can set in place determinations by which they expect others to act under certain circumstances. Denying the reality of death, and the resultant inactions' cause more heartache than necessary. The dead dont mourn, the living mourn the dead for many reasons, including for the reminder of their own mortality. Lessen the impact of death on those who will remain. Plan for your demise! Leave instructions for them to follow and everyone is clear on your wishes. Ah but we dont talk about death do we. Its taboo, like discussing it will bring it on sooner.
I have left written legal instructions with my family on how I'm to be treated under a variety of situations, cancers, dementias, accidents, that I hope never eventuate, if they do, and my family are able to fulfill them legally, everyone will be better off. And ill be dead so wont know any better.
Don't take this as criticism if loved ones you've lost acted differently, we all face death differently, but in my opinion taking control of our death as we would our life is the best solution.
JP
jpblue1000 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 19-01-2017, 01:30 PM   #76
Junkyard-Dog
Far Quit
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 572
Default Re: Euthanasia - your thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by superyob View Post
I thought the connection was obvious, a horrible person who hated humans but loved animals which is in direct contradiction to a claim made by xr8cam. But whatever...
As opposed to Stalin, a horrible person who loved his children?
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 03:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL