Russia v Ukraine - Page 10

hackney · 07-03-2022, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

So what are the reasons that justify Russia's invasion?

There are numerous theories:Putin is said to want to rebuild a Russian sphere of influence in Eastern Europe, principally embracing former Soviet republics ,such as now independent Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania,Belarus, Georgia & Ukraine.He has frequently bemoaned their ‘loss’ after the Soviet Union collapsed.Putin may also hope to demonstrate to the west(& Russians) that the country is still a superpower, even though by most measures (nuclear weapon stockpiles & geography apart)it is failing medium sized power. Why Ukraine?Putin fears strategically important Ukraine commanding Russia’s south western flank is assimilating into the west.He objects to its growing closeness to NATO.He also opposes Kyiv’s developing links with the EU, worse still, from his point of view,Ukraine is a democracy with free speech, free media, which freely elects its leaders.Russians enjoy no such freedoms,if they followed Ukraines example,Putin would not last long.More broadly,Putin is a nostalgic revisionist, who regards Ukraine as an integral part of historical Russia & it’s loss as a symbol of Russia’s Cold War defeat.

07-03-2022, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Let's be clear, Puttin's designs on Ukraine, are all about access and the Black Sea. The same thing Russia has been going after for the last 500 years.
The problem Russia has always had, is that all those southern territories they claim aren't Russian, and they keep rebelling and wanting to break away.

It's entirely possible that Russia will agree to "Peace" and withdraw, provided he gets what he wants.

He wants Ukraine and the world to accept Russian "sovereignty" over the Crimean Peninsula.
This preserves his major Naval Base at Sevastopol
Gives Russia control over the Sea of Azov
Protects access to the River Don and Volga-Dona canal, which is a major shipping route into Russia.

He wants Ukraine to guarantee supply to the Crimean
When Russia occupied Crimea, Ukraine shut down the canal that carries fresh water.

He wants control over the pipelines
Most of the Oil and Gas that Russia sells to the West flows through Pipelines in Ukraine. He wants to control those and deny Ukraine the right to profit from pipelines crossing their nation.

He wants defacto control over Ukraine's Oil & Gas terminals and effectively bans on further expansion
This would keep Ukraine dependent on Russian Gas
Also eliminate the possibility of Ukraine becoming a major LNG importer and supplying that gas to Europe.
Also effectively stops all proposals for pipelines under the black sea.

He wants to keep Ukraine out of the EU
Puttin is more concerned with expansion of the EU than NATO.

WOW...

Ukraine is an essential place for the Rothschild's Banking Cabal.

Now a Rothschild is telling you themselves.
Ukraine falls, and it will, it is the end of the New World Order.

Ukraine belongs to the Soviet's not the EU/UK Khazarian Zionist Banking Cabal.

07-03-2022, 07:34 PM

Russia needs to take Ukraine and crash the new world order

Ukraine is the head and the key to the new world order that’s were all the secrets are hidden and Putin will have to destroy them
Who started the virus USA
Who kept you locked up for 2 years UN WHO USA
Who controls your country on how much money you send how many people you receive UN
Who controls your economy and voting system UN
Who profits of all this ? UN and USA not you , you are a working ant for them and what happens to ants ? They get crushed

07-03-2022, 07:35 PM

This is the passionate belief of friends of mine ...

I just want my diesel Merc to run 9's at Willowbank :/

Mulva · 07-03-2022, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrVrPhiLpsiNdstrys

Ukraine belongs to the Soviet's not the EU/UK Khazarian Zionist Banking Cabal.

Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians.

But I do support your fight against the shape-shifting lizard people

**Fordman1** · 07-03-2022, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians.

But I do support your fight against the shape-shifting lizard people

I just keep putting the Wackos on Ignore.

Citroënbender · 07-03-2022, 07:55 PM

That post is anti-Semitic.

nstg8a · 08-03-2022, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

If that was NATO's aim, why are there no nukes in NATO members like Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Lithunia etc, all of which are much much closer to Russia than the nearest nukes in Turkey and Italy.

And before you say fixed missile silos are so 1980s and redundant these days (I agree), also redundant is the assumption that missiles will be sent from a landmass.

All of which also ignores the fact that Ukraine should be free to make their own choices, whatever those choices may be. Why should Russia decide if a free country gets to join the EU if they wish, or join NATO if they wish. Do you agree that Ukraine and any other nation should be free to choose their own destiny within the confines of international law and common decency? If Indonesia don't like our alliance with the US, you're cool with them invading WA to put some distance between us (*assuming WA has not yet declared independance from the rest of Australia at that point in time)?

I supported the invasion of Iraq at the time based on what we were being told, which turned out to be a crock of **** (problem for Saddam was he spoke so much **** up until then that when he was telling the truth about having no WMDs no one believed him). Since then I am not even close to being one of those "America **** Yeah!" loons when it comes to US meddling in other countries affairs - both US and Russia should let free countries make their own decisions.

Looking at this invasion objectively, all things considered, I cannot see anything that justifies Russia's invasion. Being objective does not mean being neutral - you can look at the different points of view and still determine on side is in the right and the other is totally wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

If that was NATO's aim, why are there no nukes in NATO members like Poland, Slovakia, Romania, Lithunia etc, all of which are much much closer to Russia than the nearest nukes in Turkey and Italy.

And before you say fixed missile silos are so 1980s and redundant these days (I agree), also redundant is the assumption that missiles will be sent from a landmass.

All of which also ignores the fact that Ukraine should be free to make their own choices, whatever those choices may be. Why should Russia decide if a free country gets to join the EU if they wish, or join NATO if they wish. Do you agree that Ukraine and any other nation should be free to choose their own destiny within the confines of international law and common decency? If Indonesia don't like our alliance with the US, you're cool with them invading WA to put some distance between us (*assuming WA has not yet declared independance from the rest of Australia at that point in time)?

I supported the invasion of Iraq at the time based on what we were being told, which turned out to be a crock of **** (problem for Saddam was he spoke so much **** up until then that when he was telling the truth about having no WMDs no one believed him). Since then I am not even close to being one of those "America **** Yeah!" loons when it comes to US meddling in other countries affairs - both US and Russia should let free countries make their own decisions.

Looking at this invasion objectively, all things considered, I cannot see anything that justifies Russia's invasion. Being objective does not mean being neutral - you can look at the different points of view and still determine on side is in the right and the other is totally wrong

Where did i mention nukes? That’s a whole lot of words for a missed point.

Again, go look at a map. See where Ukraine sits in relation to Moscow… especially compared to those other countries you mentioned.

Trevor 57 · 08-03-2022, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrVrPhiLpsiNdstrys

Russia needs to take Ukraine and crash the new world order

Ukraine is the head and the key to the new world order that’s were all the secrets are hidden and Putin will have to destroy them
Who started the virus USA
Who kept you locked up for 2 years UN WHO USA
Who controls your country on how much money you send how many people you receive UN
Who controls your economy and voting system UN
Who profits of all this ? UN and USA not you , you are a working ant for them and what happens to ants ? They get crushed

are you missing YB and all their conspiracy theories?

**Fordman1** · 08-03-2022, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Where did i mention nukes? That’s a whole lot of words for a missed point.

Again, go look at a map. See where Ukraine sits in relation to Moscow… especially compared to those other countries you mentioned.

Another one for the list

Trevor 57 · 08-03-2022, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians.

But I do support your fight against the shape-shifting lizard people

he misses his un-moderated voice on YB

What has it been now, 2 years?

Nah, 18 months, I just checked - October 26 2020

zilo · 08-03-2022, 12:42 PM

Interesting statistics on how the Ukrainians are reporting so many civilian casualties.

The Ukrainian president encourages civilians to shoot the Russians and equips them with guns, molotov cocktails, RPG's,no uniforms (and no military training..)

Any wonder that a Russian soldier in uniform sticks out like dogs balls with a bulls eye painted on his back then shoots anything that moves?

A choice to do guerilla warfare always results in huge civilian casualties.
The upside is no country adopting it has ever lost...(maybe the troll army can prove me wrong)..

xkxlxm · 08-03-2022, 01:19 PM

The Ukrainian Azov Regiment/Detachment/Battalion. According to Wiki, it uses two WW2 Nazi symbols (Wolfsangel and Black Sun) and is integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

I know there has been a move to fairly hard right political parties in parts of Europe, but how does this (Azov) happen in a country with a Jewish president?

I am not suggesting in any way that the existence of Azov justifies the Russian invasion.

(Also: I wonder what these guys will do with left over Stinger etc anti-aircraft missiles when this was is over.)

yakcam · 08-03-2022, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

Ukraine belongs to the Ukrainians.

But I do support your fight against the shape-shifting lizard people

Hissssssssss

T3rminator · 08-03-2022, 01:51 PM

Won't give any opinions as I don't know enough, but since there is so much interest on this topic, here are some docos done by mainstream media on the regiment, published way before the war started.

BTW, just heard that our gov has sanctioned individuals who have been responsible for spreading "disinformation" regarding this regiment.

Links to others as to not clutter the thread...

This one age restricted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC1oCpnDURc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0BZSgzQ7g4

Itsme · 08-03-2022, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

The Ukrainian Azov Regiment/Detachment/Battalion. According to Wiki, it uses two WW2 Nazi symbols (Wolfsangel and Black Sun) and is integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

I know there has been a move to fairly hard right political parties in parts of Europe, but how does this (Azov) happen in a country with a Jewish president?

I am not suggesting in any way that the existence of Azov justifies the Russian invasion.

(Also: I wonder what these guys will do with left over Stinger etc anti-aircraft missiles when this was is over.)

This link will further explain how this regiment became part of the Ukraine national guard.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/...-azov-regiment

Citroënbender · 08-03-2022, 02:27 PM

There was a famous saying about “better inside the tent…”

It’s a gross mistake to see Ukraine as culturally homogeneous. However its people were demonstrably getting along mostly OK before this invasion.

I used to watch Garage Kakhovka on YT for the budget repairs (sometimes not good!), the buffoonery and general cheery approach to life. Now they’re just talking about the war and the damage - every chance their lives will be negatively impacted for years to come.

zilo · 08-03-2022, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

. However its people were demonstrably getting along mostly OK before this invasion.

.

Not according to the Russians.
Quite the opposite.

John 13 · 08-03-2022, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xkxlxm

The Ukrainian Azov Regiment/Detachment/Battalion. According to Wiki, it uses two WW2 Nazi symbols (Wolfsangel and Black Sun) and is integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard.

I know there has been a move to fairly hard right political parties in parts of Europe, but how does this (Azov) happen in a country with a Jewish president?

I am not suggesting in any way that the existence of Azov justifies the Russian invasion.

(Also: I wonder what these guys will do with left over Stinger etc anti-aircraft missiles when this was is over.)

I say this with some reservation, but I have actually heard a Jewish person discuss growing up during WW2 in Germany while the Jewish father served in the SS.

CoupeKing · 08-03-2022, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John 13

I say this with some reservation, but I have actually heard a Jewish person discuss growing up during WW2 in Germany while the Jewish father served in the SS.

I've read several accounts of Russian WW2 POWs ( the few that survived capture ) fighting in France in a German uniform against the Americans/Canadians/Poms in 1944.

Probably a better chance of life than living under Stalin. Actually, I'd rather live at the base of an active volcano.

Mulva · 08-03-2022, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Where did i mention nukes? That’s a whole lot of words for a missed point.

Again, go look at a map. See where Ukraine sits in relation to Moscow… especially compared to those other countries you mentioned.

Ok, here's less words...why shouldn't Ukraine choose whether Ukraine joins the EU and/or NATO?

Mulva · 08-03-2022, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Where did i mention nukes? That’s a whole lot of words for a missed point.

Again, go look at a map. See where Ukraine sits in relation to Moscow… especially compared to those other countries you mentioned.

Separate post so too many words don't confuse - I looked at map as you suggested...

What is the difference between Ukraine border to Moscow direct (as the missile flies), and Latvia border (part of NATO) to Moscow?

Is it worth it?

CoupeKing · 08-03-2022, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

Separate post so too many words don't confuse - I looked at map as you suggested...

What is the difference between Ukraine border to Moscow direct (as the missile flies), and Latvia border (part of NATO) to Moscow?

Is it worth it?

He want's Ukraine so a NATO land invasion will be fruitless.

That's my guess.

T3rminator · 08-03-2022, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mulva

Ok, here's less words...why shouldn't Ukraine choose whether Ukraine joins the EU and/or NATO?

Every country has every right to choose their own destiny, but it comes with consequences. Unfortunately thats how this world works.

Quite a few countries have chosen not to play by the rules of the west, there has been consequences - you know, invasions and sanctions etc.
Belarus, decided to allow their ally to station troops within their border, they are now facing sanctions as a consequence. Never mind that they are the only ones who have been able to broker peace negotiations.
Heck, why can't all countries choose to have their own nuclear capability to protect their own sovereignty? Because...there will be consequences.
What about countries participating in the western economy choosing not to sanction Russia? I bet there will be consequences.

I think if you really want to understand why this is happening, you are going to have to look beyond Ukraine. IMHO this war is not Russia vs Ukraine, its the Russian regime vs regime of "the west". There are plenty of literature and analysis done by think tanks and professors in this field. They saw this event coming from a long time ago. Hence why I think, Ukraine is just a proxy - for both the west and Russia, to reach a bigger agenda.

PhilT2 · 08-03-2022, 09:59 PM

I was curious about the capacity of the US arms industry to supply Ukraine with enough weapons to make a difference. Figures released by US media today put the number of Javelin anti-tank missiles supplied at 17,000 and Stinger anti-aircraft at 2000. There's a question mark over where these actually are; still in transit or in the hands of troops on the front line. But the story is they were airfreighted over to Poland and Romania and driven across the border.
And how accurate these numbers are is anybody's guess.