|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
08-07-2024, 07:36 AM | #1 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Ive searched threads for an answer to my problem but no success. Sorry if this is a repetitive one.
Just bought this 2011 Mondeo Turbo Diesel automatic. 170,000 with service history since leaving the factory. I have never driven one before this so not sure if this is normal for a Diesel Mondeo. Takes time to reach speeds and even longer in slight climbs. Example, standing start take off i will hit 60km in roughly 100 meters. Very dangerous turning into traffic when finding a gap. Another example while in a minor climb is the exit ramp out of my town merging onto the hwy has a climb not that steep..... but Takes me almost 1000 meters in distance to reach 100km speed and only doing around 60km at the point of merge. I'ts as if i'm towing a truck behind. Rev gage shows 2500-3500 rpm in-between gear change (depending on the slope of the road). No Engine lights appear. No codes showing when plugged in. Turbo tested and it's fine. PS: Another strange happening is i can feel the gear change kick down when approaching a intersection. I feel the jerk at around 40-35km speed. It's as if it shifts down to 2nd or 1st to early. Not sure if this is also normal for a power shift Anyone with an idea? or is this gutless acceleration normal for a Mondeo Last edited by JustBill; 08-07-2024 at 07:57 AM. |
||
08-07-2024, 07:48 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 1,266
|
No, that's not normal, it is a very grunty engine and pulls hard from just over 1500 rpm.
I'm not sure what could cause a loss of power like that and not generate a code. Loss of boost is one possibility, but that should result in at least one code. Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk
__________________
MB Mondeo TDCi wagon, sea grey, on MAK Invidia 16" wheels. |
||
3 users like this post: |
13-07-2024, 04:10 PM | #3 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
Some possibilities come to mind. The fuel filter or air filter might need replacing. A service "history" doesn't actually mean any real services were carried out, just that they were billed for.
Possibly a faulty injector. Maybe perform a leak back test. You could try some injector cleaner too. There could be some restriction in the exhaust. A blocked DPF should throw codes, but there could possibly be some physical damage to the exhaust. Someone who knows a lot more about these cars than me suggested that the intercooler could be partially blocked with oil from the PCV system. It should definitely rev out past 3500rpm, going close to redline. I guess it's possible the inlet manifold is gunged up with EGR soot combined the PCV oil. That wouldn't throw any codes AFAIK. Re the transmission: I would definitely look at changing the oil and external filter. DIY is best, there's videos on YouTube on how to do it. If you don't want to DIY try to find a transmission place with a clue about these cars. (There aren't many) Last edited by AlanM; 13-07-2024 at 04:17 PM. |
||
2 users like this post: |
14-07-2024, 07:49 PM | #4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
Another thought, it could simply be the throttle position sensor.
A possible way to check if it's this would be to use the cruise control to accelerate. If you're going about 40kmh on cruise, and press and hold the + button, the car will normally accelerate pretty fast. If it does, then the throttle pedal sensor could be the problem. |
||
This user likes this post: |
14-07-2024, 08:21 PM | #5 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
Took it to a mechanic who had it for 2 days and looked over it. They were 100% certain the injector seals is the cause and need replacement. So i did that myself. But no change, still drives the same. |
|||
14-07-2024, 08:28 PM | #6 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
I replaced them and now i can say it's 100% certain wasn't the problem as it drives exactly the same. |
|||
14-07-2024, 09:42 PM | #8 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,757
|
A further note, I hadn’t taken in before today, that Alan Howatt (YT Mondeo taxi expert cited in other posts) has permanently upped stumps and moved to a Filipino village with his better half. He might well be up for some affordable paid consultation - is a pretty clued up character. Or someone could just be cheeky and invite him to join the forum!
|
||
17-07-2024, 05:01 PM | #9 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
Quote:
Yeah I had a car with leaky injector seals (the copper washers) and it drove fine apart from a burnt smell at times. That wasn't what I meant by the leak back test though. That's where the internal seals on an injector are failing and too much of the fuel pressure is being lost down the leak back line. There are other things that are easier to check first though. The leak back test requires a little investment in some parts. |
|||
18-07-2024, 07:07 AM | #10 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
I did take the injectors for testing and just got them back yesterday after one mechanic felt certain that the injectors were faulty. Results came back injectors are fine. They were cleaned up new copper washes fitted and placed back in the car, No change to the power. This is becoming Trial and Error and becoming expensive. I'm baffled why 3 different mechanics physically inspected it and none can solve the issue. PS: A symptom i haven't mentioned yet,,,,, when accelerating the rev gauge pulsates around 50-100 rpms. it pulsates up/down every 1 second looking at my watch. When using cruise control driving on level ground (no acceleration needed) rev gauge is steady. You can't hear the revs nor feel it, it's that minor. And still no codes nor engine light popping up. Last edited by JustBill; 18-07-2024 at 07:34 AM. |
|||
18-07-2024, 08:30 AM | #11 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,757
|
We recently had a Benz in the shop with the supercharged “Kompressor” engine. Without the intake sealed properly, revs would hunt up and down.
|
||
3 users like this post: |
18-07-2024, 12:07 PM | #12 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,692
|
Quote:
I reckon you have a leak somewhere in the induction pipework post turbo, or a hole in the intercooler. The ECU is smart enough to limit fuel in the case of not enough air to prevent it from belching out black smoke, but not cluey enough to throw codes for it. Same engine as my old Focus, same engine management system. Mine also blew injector seals, and also it's injectors return line, all it did was leak diesel over itself, didn't cause any issues with performance. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 18-07-2024 at 12:15 PM. |
|||
18-07-2024, 03:26 PM | #13 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
Also, i discovered something else in the engine bay. On the fire wall, there seems to be a splatter of very light brown clay like dirt. Could be a pipe or hose of some sort at the turbo side of the engine. I don't think driving over a muddy puddle caused this due to the drip cover under the car. The first mechanic said he checked all the hoses and pipes leading in and out of the turbo and didn't identify a issue. He pulled the exhaust back a bit and seen the turbo working. I'm starting to think now..... "Or did he check?" |
|||
23-07-2024, 06:07 PM | #14 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Just got a third opinion. Worse news and that the Powershift transmission is gone which is why its powerless due to slipping. Revs to 3000+ meaning engine is fantastic and nothing wrong with the power coming from this turbo diesel. I'm gutted, this car was purchased privately for my son which i picked 5 weeks ago using my sons money that he saved, who is due to come back from overseas soon. I've let him down. What a useless father i am.
|
||
23-07-2024, 06:41 PM | #15 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
If it's not shuddering or clunking the transmission may just need new oil. These things need hydraulic pressure to make the clutches engage. If the oil is bad you can get excessive slipping.
There's plenty of videos on YouTube on doing the oil change. It's not as straightforward as most, but it's not hard either. Do the external filter too. Supercheap get them in pretty quick. Their part number is WTF4. Easy to remember! Once you've done the oil change it might be worth doing a clutch relearn on Forscan. |
||
This user likes this post: |
23-07-2024, 07:02 PM | #16 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
Last edited by JustBill; 23-07-2024 at 07:11 PM. |
|||
23-07-2024, 09:27 PM | #17 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
Have a look at this channel on YouTube:
https://youtube.com/@yepthatsit?si=DlJagU94IetLjNi- He has fixed some severely malfunctioning powershift and Volvo DCTs. (Same transmission) by basically cleaning out the valve body and demagnetising the solenoids. Also, changing the oil may not produce an instant fix. The TCM will have adapted to dirty old oil and may take time to relearn having new oil. A clutch learn could help. It's certainly worth trying before assuming the transmission is shot. |
||
This user likes this post: |
02-08-2024, 06:13 PM | #18 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Update: Mechanic #2 said Mechanic #3 doesn't know what he's talking about. My problem isn't with the transmission.
So I considered the air intake gaskets. When I opened it up.... my goodness the carbon soot around the air intake cover and the engine ports was so bad, you couldn't slip a 10cent piece in it. Cleaned them up as best I can using a carbon removal spray specifically designed for diesel engines. Now after putting the engine bits and pieces back together again and to see how it runs ... the car won't start. It turns over but won't ignite. Faults did come up on a scan one was fuel pressure low the other cam position sensor low reading. This was after connecting the battery again. So I cleared the faults but no start still remains even though the faults have not come back up again. So I bought myself a volt meter and tested the cam position sensor. There are 3 wires on the sensor connector signal = ground = voltage. I'm getting 5v on the signal wire, but zero reading on the voltage wire. This is with the sensor removed just testing the adapter. So I'm confident the carbon soot blockages was the low power issue, bur I can't test it out with this new cam sensor issue. That's if it's a faulty cam sensor or wiring. |
||
This user likes this post: |
02-08-2024, 06:51 PM | #19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,909
|
are those two sensors even near the intake? sorry, I can't remember the engine well enough. Did you disconnect them when you stripped it down?
|
||
02-08-2024, 07:09 PM | #20 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Yes, the cam sensor sits on top of the engine and I had to remove it inorder to remove the intake manifold (plastic cover)
Last edited by JustBill; 02-08-2024 at 07:33 PM. |
||
This user likes this post: |
02-08-2024, 07:28 PM | #21 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,570
|
Quote:
__________________
regards Blue Last edited by aussiblue; 02-08-2024 at 07:38 PM. |
|||
03-08-2024, 11:58 AM | #22 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,692
|
Quote:
|
|||
03-08-2024, 05:17 PM | #23 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,570
|
Quote:
__________________
regards Blue |
|||
03-08-2024, 06:50 PM | #24 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
|
Quote:
With that model, if the EGR system gets blocked, say by a piece of metal (maybe cut out from a tin can) accidentally falling into where it joins the throttle body, you'll get no codes, no check engine light, and no more glop blocking up the intake. Fuel economy will improve a little though. Just saying... |
|||
03-08-2024, 09:04 PM | #25 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
Though i did get a P1168 Code (P1168 Code is displayed when the fuel pressure detected by the fuel rail sensor is lower than the ideal levels). I removed the leak off pipe and diesel is definitely coming through as fuel leaked from the area where the leak off pipe was removed from each injector. Last edited by JustBill; 03-08-2024 at 09:14 PM. |
|||
This user likes this post: |
04-08-2024, 12:12 AM | #26 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,692
|
Quote:
I'd be bleeding the fuel system, I think they need about 200 BAR of fuel pressure at the injectors before they'll fire. There's no lift pump on these to lift fuel from the tank to the injection pump - it relies on the injection pump alone to suck it out of the tank. It's a shit design, junk Siemens electronics as the sprinkles on the shit sandwich - the French should stick to white flags and Olympics open ceremonies, it's a PSA DW10 engine, the below shows a bleeding procedure. Give it a crack and see if it starts, you might need to vacuum bleed through the return side too. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 04-08-2024 at 12:24 AM. |
|||
04-08-2024, 12:55 PM | #27 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Firstly thank you to Franco Cozzo for the advice. And lololol regarding the French. So true.
I've bleed the fuel lines but still won't start although it was needed anyway. I've ran my OBD2 scanner and this is the only fault that came up and has something to do with Fuel Rail System. PS Did a google search and these are the possibilities for a P0087 engine code. (My thoughts in brackets) 1) Bad Fuel Pressure Sensor (couldn't be the cause for not starting, if the sensor senses pressure not causes low pressure) 2) Clogged Fuel Filter (it started perfectly fine before this sudden no start problem. There would have been a gradual symptoms) 3) Bad Low Pressure Fuel Pump (LPFP) (not qualified to know how to test) 4) Bad High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) (not qualified to know how to test) 5) Bad Cam Follower (Symptoms noted are high pitched tapping sounds. This never occurred) 6) Bad Fuel Pressure Regulator (I can search on where it's located, but no idea on how to tell if faulty) Also it's mentioned bad engine oil could be a reason and it's usually the problem that mechanics do first which is change oil. It's got me beat how engine oil effects fuel rail. If anyone can translate it and give me ideas, it would be much appreciated https://app.photobucket.com/share/e9...0-e0403c521f6e Last edited by JustBill; 04-08-2024 at 01:17 PM. |
||
04-08-2024, 10:55 PM | #28 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,692
|
Its low but its also not low enough to not fire the injectors, works out to be circa 650 BAR (needs 200 BAR to open injectors).
I'm assuming you cleared all the codes and its come back again? Also probably going to sound silly and coincidental, when was the last time the fuel filter was changed? |
||
05-08-2024, 08:04 AM | #29 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2024
Posts: 48
|
Quote:
I've only had the car 6 weeks. It came with a full service history (but doesn't specify what was done as part of these services) What i have done so far so sought out the lack of power and now non start: A) Test and clean the injectors and add new seals to injectors B) change transmission fluid and filter C) New intake manifold gaskets D) Decarbed the engine intake ports and manifold using a Diesel engine intake Decarb fluid (check photos below and see how bad they were). The injectors were out at the time, i would have had the decarb fluid going in the injector ports, not sure if that was a good idea and caused some contamination or damage. E) Change engine oil and filter. PS: After posting this i ran the scan again and the P0087 Code: Fuel Rail/System Pressure Too Low disappeared on it's own overnight. But still won't start.and no codes or dashboard warning lights. Last edited by JustBill; 05-08-2024 at 08:28 AM. |
|||
05-08-2024, 08:50 AM | #30 | ||
DIY Tragic
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Sydney, more than not. I hate it.
Posts: 22,757
|
Will it start, then run on a puff of ether or a splash of petrol?
(Not something you should do often!) At this point verify the timing as well, I think the diesel is as for the PSA 2 litre petrol and has a flywheel pinning hole to its rear. Be careful not to wind the motor backwards if you miss the timing point - go around twice more. |
||
This user likes this post: |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|