Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > Ford Australia Vehicles > Small and Mid Sized Cars > Mondeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14-04-2023, 10:21 AM   #1
Sparkz181
Starter Motor
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 3
Angry 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

I have a 2011 FORD MONDEO TDCi Auto(DCT) MB, MC GXXGB 05/2010~04/2015 4 Door Wagon FWD DIESEL 2.0 litre, TXBA (D4204T7) I4 16v DOHC Turbo CRD {120kW} I had the dual clutch transmission rebuilt through FORD in Victoria, Australia.
The trans was sent out to be rebuilt after being assessed at FORD, as it just kept dropping gears.
The trans runs OK but I have an intermittent issues that only occurs every now and then.
When I have stopped at a traffic light etc, foot on the brake, the car body lurches forward and back without actually moving the wheels. It feels like a person who is dizzy or has vertigo.
Took it back to FORD they couldn’t find any codes etc, (Apparently this trans does not keep the codes I was told. I have a very good scanner myself an Autel MaxiSys MS906 and it showed no codes either (I did this before I took it to FORD) They said they reset some fuel stuff but it never did this before the rebuilt trans was fitted.
What I have noticed that when the car does this fault, the fuel Lt/hr indicator on the dash changes and I have pics and vids.
Normally in Park or Neutral 0.8-0.9 Lt/hr
Normally in gear 1.1 Lt/hr
Fault figures range from 1.7-4.2 Lt/hr Average is 2.7 Lt/hr but it does vary at times. It doesn't matter what gear the trans is in (DRNP!@#etc), even with every electrical device switched on or off the car still surges.
I hope someone can help provide some advice etc as I have already spent quite a tidy sum of money to have the trans rebuilt plus additional cost for FORD to look at it again not to find any fault.
Thanks in Advance
Steve
Sparkz181 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 14-04-2023, 11:47 AM   #2
aussiblue
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,537
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has been floating around the oze tech section for a long time and is always there to give advice when people have an issue. 
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

No idea. But subscribe to to Alan Howatt's YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/@alan4x and send him a message. He's the Mondeo YouTube go to expert and he's usually pretty good at responding albeit he in the Philippines at the moment visiting his Internet mail order girlfriend.
__________________
regards Blue
aussiblue is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 14-04-2023, 04:46 PM   #3
Sparkz181
Starter Motor
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 3
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Thank you Blue, I have learnt a lot from Alan. I have never thought to send him a message before definately something to consider, Cheers Steve
Sparkz181 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 14-04-2023, 09:45 PM   #4
rondeo
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 805
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

The fuel increase looks like a dpf burn. Normally at idle mine just makes a thumping noise and the exhaust note changes. Could it be related?
rondeo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 15-04-2023, 04:58 PM   #5
rondeo
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 805
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

The body could move by a torque reaction due to an engine speed change.
In front wheel drives this would be back and forth.
With the foot on the brake, a gear change might do the same.
So the engine is changing speed or the gearbox is changing gear, or both.
If nothing else.
rondeo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 15-04-2023, 07:59 PM   #6
aussiblue
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,537
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has been floating around the oze tech section for a long time and is always there to give advice when people have an issue. 
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Wasn't there a Alan Howatt video about broken engine stay bars/engine mounts or transmission torque restrictor on a Mondeo that caused similar symptoms? Can't find one though so perhaps it was something he mentioned in passing on a video on another Mondeao subject. In any event a quick visual inspection of the transmission mount to check for wear or breakage wouldn't hurt.
__________________
regards Blue

Last edited by aussiblue; 15-04-2023 at 08:18 PM.
aussiblue is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 15-04-2023, 10:44 PM   #7
Mondaveo
Regular Member
 
Mondaveo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Dubbo, formerly Canberra
Posts: 342
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Another thought. You mentioned using a scantool to check for diagnostic codes, but have you tried looking at parameters from the onboard computers while the issue is happening, to get clues to what the car is 'thinking' or trying to do?

Such was the approach I took when I was chasing my own transmission gremlins, which had the car balking or shunting in gear changes, but was intermittent and generally didn't record any error codes. So I set up an arrangement to monitor and record various parameter values from the ECM, TCM etc during general driving, to try to get an insight into what the computers thought they were trying to do. (For specifics I used an OBDLink MX linked by Bluetooth to my smartphone running the mobile Forscan app; not sure if you can achieve similar with your device.) You can read about my experience at the thread here: http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11452297


For example if you want to know if the car is doing a DPF regeneration when you experience the rocking sensation, that is easily confirmed if you can view a live readout from the exhaust temperature sensor (which will go up to 600°C while the system is burning off the built-up soot). If you suspect it's the gearbox rowing gears, you might be able to get some evidence for this if you can view some of the TCM parameters for the gear shift intention. In my situation, it was a classic case of the faulty gearbox input speed sensor, which was evident in the graphs I made below of some of my recorded data. The red "RPM" line represents the reading of the gearbox sensor that was going bad, in the highlighted regions you can see the trace going crazy which corresponded with the car balking or lurching as the other drivetrain systems couldn't tell what was going on.



__________________
2011 Mondeo MC Titanium TDCi wagon, Panther Black
- new Powershift sensor: Nov 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by rondeo View Post
Like 'Mondeo' is possibly Latin for gearbox anxiety.
Mondaveo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 17-04-2023, 11:22 AM   #8
Sparkz181
Starter Motor
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Posts: 3
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Thank you aussiblue, rondeo and Mondaveo for your time and energy trying to assist me. I like your thoughts. Still trying to get my head around all the extra electronic stuff and the new ways it all gets processed by computers.
rondeo, I do have heard a slight thumping noise when stopped. I never knew that a DPF burn would happen at idle. That is good to know. (Info told to FORD also but never any mention….lol). Maybe that is it.
“The body could move by a torque reaction due to an engine speed change.” The tacho does not show any variation, it doesn’t make any difference what gear the trans is in even in Neut or Park. It feels like maybe a trans solenoid is sticking or jamming. Normally once the ignition is turned off for 10-15 seconds the car will return to normal but not always, I would need to repeat ignition off for a bit longer the ok. My assumption is that the trans oil pressure has reduced thus releasing the solenoid.
Thank you for your input rondeo. J
aussiblue, I could only make an assumption that when the trans was removed and replaced that a mount inspection would have been looked at, and again when they had it back on the hoist the next time when checking the fault again.
aussiblue thank you for your input. J
Mondaveo, wow, thanks still learning to use scanner...lol Great to know some more info to check out much appreciated.
You know that we gotta love engineers who design cars. OBDII port in money box which hangs down so far it is dangerous to try to drive the car with the scanner plugged in. Well it seems it is something I will have try to work around safely. Damn these intermittent faults…lol
I do notice in your graphic that the rpm’s inly go crazy for approx. 10 seconds. I my car the revs appear to stay the same but the fuel being used Litres/Hour is a lot.
Mondaveo thank you for you input also.
Sparkz181 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-04-2023, 11:09 PM   #9
Mondaveo
Regular Member
 
Mondaveo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Dubbo, formerly Canberra
Posts: 342
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkz181 View Post
OBDII port in money box which hangs down so far it is dangerous to try to drive the car with the scanner plugged in. Well it seems it is something I will have try to work around safely.
A tip, you can just unclip the coin compartment at the hinge point - it's just moulded plastic.
You can further mod the compartment by cutting away some material so it has room to leave a compact OBD scantool plugged in (possibly with an extension cable, which is what I did).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkz181 View Post
I do notice in your graphic that the rpm’s inly go crazy for approx. 10 seconds. I my car the revs appear to stay the same but the fuel being used Litres/Hour is a lot.
Worth clarifying, my graph was recorded from the TCM, and the "RPM" line shown there is not actually the revs measured at the engine. The thing to know is that the various computers (e.g. Engine Control Module, Transmission Control Module, Instrument Panel Module etc.) all operate semi-independently, and they usually only see the data of the particular component they manage. So the ECM is measuring and controlling all the parameters of the engine at the engine itself, and the TCM is measuring and controlling the dual-clutch transmission, but the TCM doesn't know the actual RPM of the engine. Instead it has to infer from its own sensor suite, which in the case of RPM it gets from a sensor measuring the speed of the transmission input shaft. Now theoretically this should correspond exactly with the RPM at the engine, but in my case this sensor was faulty, and sporadically giving crazy numbers (which we see in the graph). So in those moments while the true engine revs would have been steady or climbing, the TCM was getting totally different numbers, it had no idea what was going on and getting totally confused about what gear it needed to be in.

Just wanted to clarify in case you thought my situation had the engine revs actually going crazy - in fact it was just like yours, the engine speed was steady both according to feel and visually on the tachometer, it's just that the computer (TCM) thought something different was happening. I know, it seems misleading (and it took a bit of unpacking in that thread I linked to come to an understanding - thanks to the other posters who helped me). It's especially confusing since the data stream from the TCM is labelled "RPM" and there happens to be another data stream called GISS or "Gearbox Input Speed Sensor" which it seems should be the one measuring that speed on the input shaft! But no, with the TCM for Powershift gearbox "RPM" is actually the input shaft and "GISS" is somewhere deeper in the unit (on one of the dual clutches I believe).

Thinking back on it, in fact it's interesting you mention that the fuel consumption visible on the instrument panel jumps around, while the RPM on the tachometer stays steady. My understanding is that fuel consumption is not measured directly, but is inferred from measurement of the air flow into the engine. I wonder if perhaps there is a malfunction of one of the sensors relied upon by the ECM - a starting point for investigation possibly?
__________________
2011 Mondeo MC Titanium TDCi wagon, Panther Black
- new Powershift sensor: Nov 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by rondeo View Post
Like 'Mondeo' is possibly Latin for gearbox anxiety.
Mondaveo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 02-05-2023, 04:13 PM   #10
bundybear75
Regular Member
 
bundybear75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Goulburn NSW
Posts: 316
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

If scanning for codes, make sure you do it before turning the vehicle off - the TCM looses the trouble code when the engine is switched off
__________________
2012 MC Mondeo LX TDCi Wagon - Highway Hack 392K km and counting - Now gone 😢
2008 Peugeot 308 HDi - Highway Hack II
2008 Citroen C4 HDi - Highway Hack III
2010 Peugeot 308 HDi SW - Shaggin Wagon II
2016 VDJ200R Landcruiser GX Wagon - TTD V8 Power !
2017 Toyota RAV4 GX Wagon - Shopping trolley - Gone
2022 Volvo XC40 T4 Inscription - Shopping trolley II
2002 BMW R1150GS
bundybear75 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 02-05-2023, 05:33 PM   #11
aussiblue
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,537
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has been floating around the oze tech section for a long time and is always there to give advice when people have an issue. 
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Quote:
I could only make an assumption that when the trans was removed and replaced that a mount inspection would have been looked at, and again when they had it back on the hoist the next time when checking the fault again.
Never assume anything especially with dealers and it easy to do a quick visual check.
__________________
regards Blue
aussiblue is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 15-05-2023, 07:30 AM   #12
AlanM
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 125
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

The increase in fuel burn does look like a DPF regen. I've had mine do that and it sends a rhythmic "thrum" through the car. But you do see the RPMs changing slightly.
AlanM is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 06-10-2024, 12:47 PM   #13
aussiblue
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,537
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has been floating around the oze tech section for a long time and is always there to give advice when people have an issue. 
Default Re: 2011 FORD MONDEO MC Transmission issue

Alan Howatt is heading back to the UK per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4vYBAzPos For how long who knows.
__________________
regards Blue
aussiblue is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 03:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL