NBN Fibre to the Node (FTTN) - What does it mean to us?

[GASWAGON]

The copper telephone lines are 50-60 years old ar'nt they which surely have deteriorated over that time?

Imagine the cost of replacing every copper line in every house in Oz.???

[steve101]

the internet in Australia is a joke we're not even in the top 50 there's 3rd world countries with faster

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by steve101

the internet in Australia is a joke we're not even in the top 50 there's 3rd world countries with faster

I've had access to the internet at home since 1997 when connection was done via a 33.6k modem. The internet is fast enough as it is and this NBN money should be better spent on more important things.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

I've had access to the internet at home since 1997 when connection was done via a 33.6k modem. The internet is fast enough as it is and this NBN money should be better spent on more important things.

Internet usage in 1997


Internet usage in 2017


There is a need to invest in building infrastructure that can handle not just the increased speed required (Model T vs FGX), but big enough pipes (dirt roads vs highways) to let the increased traffic flow.

However unfortunately GovCo and friends are way to focused on self interests and remaining in power and don't look at the long term benefits on building a Internet Autobahn that we want now but very much will need in the near future.

IMO

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Grunter

Internet usage in 1997
image

Internet usage in 2017
image

There is a need to invest in building infrastructure that can handle not just the increased speed required (Model T vs FGX), but big enough pipes (dirt roads vs highways) to let the increased traffic flow.

However unfortunately GovCo and friends are way to focused on self interests and remaining in power and don't look at the long term benefits on building a Internet Autobahn that we want now but very much will need in the near future.

IMO

Well my first experience with the NBN is that it is a white elephant. My speeds are actually SLOWER now than before. I was getting into the low 30Mbps before NBN, now I am in the low 20Mbps on NBN.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Well my first experience with the NBN is that it is a white elephant. My speeds are actually SLOWER now than before. I was getting into the low 30Mbps before NBN, now I am in the low 20Mbps on NBN.

I know your pain! I had the same issues going from ADSL to NBN FTTN. Wasted a lot of my time chasing up both the ISP and NBN for reasons why and for them to sort it out. Long story short it was resolved (to a point) when the ISP finally dealt with the additional congestion in my area. Still drops from a peak of 82mb/s down to 6-8mb/s on Sunday arvos/evenings (which is still a lot better than the best on the old ADSL service).

[GASWAGON]

$80 Billion of tax payers money and its actually worse.

LUDICROUS!

[olfella]

I was having an online chat with a service area of one NBN service provider and they were going on about that "internet speeds indicated are maximum theoretical speeds only. Actual throughput speeds may be slower and could vary due to many factors, including the type / source of content being downloaded, hardware and software configuration, the number of users simultaneously using the network and performance of interconnecting infrastructure not operated by"

So I asked why cant the speed be taken at the point of entry by the tech doing the install - then the user can pay for the tier option that would apply from that.

No no no we cannot do that. Then they went on about upload speeds also being restricted...

Why is it so hard when really all we want as users is a nice reliable, stable service that we get what we pay for?

[wizardy]

Just think if it was fiber optic there wouldn't be any issue.
But then they couldn't stagger costing to rip people off.

[Syndrome]

As if they heard me....

http://www.news.com.au/technology/on...6fafa2e2f7db87

[snowcone]

Most areas in Newcastle have received the crappiest NBN that could be delivered.
I think we were labelled as a "test area" for the "hybrid NBN"
This involved not only the lower level FTTN, but also a hybrid combination of existing copper and optical fibre.
So this worked out well - not!
My NBN is marginally faster than the ADSL1 it replaced, but still only half the speed of my ADSL2 at work.
At home it still buffers on videos.
This is pathetic and a waste of time and money, which is all we could ever have expected from a government run project.
They should have done the job properly with full fibre to all premises, not this half baked, half copper, halfway there system that is already outdated.
Makes you embarressed to be an Australian sometimes.

[Syndrome]

A new issue discovered. The NBN has locked telephone override numbers. For example if I am with Telstra, I could previously use a override number if I wanted a call to be charged to another company (e.g. Veetel). With NBN this no longer possible. You sign a contract with one of the ISPs and you are locked in with them for 100% of the IT and telecommunication services. Thanks Krudd.

[karj]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

A new issue discovered. The NBN has locked telephone override numbers. For example if I am with Telstra, I could previously use a override number if I wanted a call to be charged to another company (e.g. Veetel).With NBN this no longer possible. You sign a contract with one of the ISPs and you are locked in with them for 100% of the IT and telecommunication services. Thanks Krudd.

Don't know who told you that, but it's wrong.

Phone services under NBN utilise VoIP, so you are free to port your number to any VoIP provider you wish, regardless of your choice of RSP. You may need to purchase and configure an ATA though (eg: Cisco SPA112).

To be honest though, I'm not a huge fan of VoIP (for a number of reasons). I would have preferred the original FTTH model utilising a UNI-V port for phone service. But we can't have that anymore under the multi-technology mix NBN... And the blame for that does not lie with Krudd.

[Squalo]

Yeah I was wondering about the Rudd thing. The original Labor NBN FTTP model actually allowed for multiple providers.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by karj

Don't know who told you that, but it's wrong.

Who told me? Veetel.

Originally Posted by karj

Phone services under NBN utilise VoIP, so you are free to port your number to any VoIP provider you wish, regardless of your choice of RSP. You may need to purchase and configure an ATA though (eg: Cisco SPA112).

Tell me that in layman terms.

Originally Posted by karj

To be honest though, I'm not a huge fan of VoIP (for a number of reasons). I would have preferred the original FTTH model utilising a UNI-V port for phone service. But we can't have that anymore under the multi-technology mix NBN... And the blame for that does not lie with Krudd.

What are the issues with VoIP?

[karj]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Who told me? Veetel.

I don't know anything about Veetel, but a quick look on their website indicates that they only offer NBN phone plans on NBN FTTP (fibre to the premise).

As you have only just come onto the NBN and the Coalition halted FTTP rollout when elected in 2013, it is unlikely that you have FTTP, so it would seem you cannot get a phone service through Veetel.

Veetel look like they did offer a NBN FTTP internet and phone bundle previously, but no longer. Not that this is relevant to you anyway because you probably don't have FTTP.

You are likely to be connected to the NBN through FTTN (fibre to the node) or HFC (hybrid fibre coaxial) or FTTB (fibre to the building) or fixed wireless.

You can check what technology connects you to the NBN at this website

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Tell me that in layman terms.

I'll give it my best. Sorry if the following is clear as mud.

You probably used to have an analogue phone that you connected directly to a phone socket. With NBN FTTN, FTTB, HFC or fixed wireless, you can no longer do this.

Telephone services are instead delivered by VoIP (which stands for voice over internet protocol). In layman terms, you need an active internet connection to deliver the voice service.

Most RSP's (retail service providers) offer NBN internet and phone bundles. So if you opt to retain a landline phone number and port that number to your RSP, that phone service will be delivered by VoIP and they will typically supply you with a pre-configured modem/router that you plug into the wall socket, and then you plug your analogue phone into the modem/router. In this situation, your phone connects to the modem/router and the modem/router connects to internet.

If you are unhappy with the voice service provided by your RSP (eg: you may feel call costs are uncompetitive) you could choose to port your phone number to an alternative VoIP provider (eg: Telecube, MyNetFone - **these are just examples, not me recommending these providers).

If you did this, you could no longer plug your phone into the RSP's supplied modem/router because they typically do not allow customers to configure alternative VoIP providers on their supplied hardware. You would instead have to purchase an ATA (analogue telephone adapter, eg: Cisco SPA112), configure it with the settings provided to you by your alternative VoIP provider, plug your phone into the ATA, and plug the ATA into the modem/router via an ethernet cable. In this situation, your phone connects to the ATA, the ATA connects to the modem/router via ethernet, and the modem/router connects to internet.

So you would be effectively using your RSP for internet only, and a separate VoIP provider for your phone.

Originally Posted by Syndrome

What are the issues with VoIP?

The things that I don't particularly like about it are:
- Emergency call routing issues depending on VoIP provider (eg: I called police assistance in SA and was routed to NSW police assistance)
- Latency/delay/echo issues
- No phone service at all in event of power outage and nothing you can do about it
- Potential QoS issues
- Requirement for an ATA, or VoIP modem/router.

These issues are either significantly minimised, or eliminated if using a UNI-V port on the NTD in Labor's original FTTP NBN rollout. With FTTP, you also had the flexibility such that if you did want to setup a VoIP provider and an ATA, you could achieve this as well through your router and NBN UNI-D connection.

[notNA]

all i'm going to do is clap very slowly.

i'm in the **** adsl 2+ speed which has been on a steady decline since i have had it...

hopefully another plastic bag in the pit along with a rubber band taken off a news paper will fix it

refuse to go to telstra and get locked into there stupid contracts

[Mechan1k]

Another main issue with VOIP is people of back to base alarm systems that dial out. This function does not work once switched (in most cases ... depends on the alarm system used in the house)

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

Another main issue with VOIP is people of back to base alarm systems that dial out. This function does not work once switched (in most cases ... depends on the alarm system used in the house)

There are alarm systems that work with voip. Voice over Internet protocol has been around for long enough and systems have been developed to work with it. Just like most things, things have to be upgraded but it's do able. The old alarm socket may be kind of prehistoric but the new school has things sorted out.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by karj

I don't know anything about Veetel, but a quick look on their website indicates that they only offer NBN phone plans on NBN FTTP (fibre to the premise).

As you have only just come onto the NBN and the Coalition halted FTTP rollout when elected in 2013, it is unlikely that you have FTTP, so it would seem you cannot get a phone service through Veetel.

Veetel look like they did offer a NBN FTTP internet and phone bundle previously, but no longer. Not that this is relevant to you anyway because you probably don't have FTTP.

You are likely to be connected to the NBN through FTTN (fibre to the node) or HFC (hybrid fibre coaxial) or FTTB (fibre to the building) or fixed wireless.

You can check what technology connects you to the NBN at this website



I'll give it my best. Sorry if the following is clear as mud.

You probably used to have an analogue phone that you connected directly to a phone socket. With NBN FTTN, FTTB, HFC or fixed wireless, you can no longer do this.

Telephone services are instead delivered by VoIP (which stands for voice over internet protocol). In layman terms, you need an active internet connection to deliver the voice service.

Most RSP's (retail service providers) offer NBN internet and phone bundles. So if you opt to retain a landline phone number and port that number to your RSP, that phone service will be delivered by VoIP and they will typically supply you with a pre-configured modem/router that you plug into the wall socket, and then you plug your analogue phone into the modem/router. In this situation, your phone connects to the modem/router and the modem/router connects to internet.

If you are unhappy with the voice service provided by your RSP (eg: you may feel call costs are uncompetitive) you could choose to port your phone number to an alternative VoIP provider (eg: Telecube, MyNetFone - **these are just examples, not me recommending these providers).

If you did this, you could no longer plug your phone into the RSP's supplied modem/router because they typically do not allow customers to configure alternative VoIP providers on their supplied hardware. You would instead have to purchase an ATA (analogue telephone adapter, eg: Cisco SPA112), configure it with the settings provided to you by your alternative VoIP provider, plug your phone into the ATA, and plug the ATA into the modem/router via an ethernet cable. In this situation, your phone connects to the ATA, the ATA connects to the modem/router via ethernet, and the modem/router connects to internet.

So you would be effectively using your RSP for internet only, and a separate VoIP provider for your phone.



The things that I don't particularly like about it are:
- Emergency call routing issues depending on VoIP provider (eg: I called police assistance in SA and was routed to NSW police assistance)
- Latency/delay/echo issues
- No phone service at all in event of power outage and nothing you can do about it
- Potential QoS issues
- Requirement for an ATA, or VoIP modem/router.

These issues are either significantly minimised, or eliminated if using a UNI-V port on the NTD in Labor's original FTTP NBN rollout. With FTTP, you also had the flexibility such that if you did want to setup a VoIP provider and an ATA, you could achieve this as well through your router and NBN UNI-D connection.

Great response. Thanks for taking the time to type this. My internet setup prior to NBN was coaxial cable from the street to the router in the house which was only installed February 2016. Prior to that I was using ADSL2+.

It is possible to have a rational discussion and sharing of opinions on this forum. The only problem is the amount of snowflakes in society is increasing at an alarming rate. Hate to think where we will be in another 10 years with the current rate of decay.

[Falcon Coupe]

I have been on NBN for a week and a half now, I signed up for the 100/40 FTTN speed boost plan.

After complaining to Telstra, I was informed today I'm in an area on coexistence for 18 months. Apparently I should have been told before signing the contract for 100/40 plan. Telstra has their hands tied, changing ISP won't make a difference and the Ombudsman won't act against NBN being wholesale rather than retail.
So 10mbps it is until the coexistence is removed. I was getting 13mbps on adsl2, absolutely gutted with no recourse, thanks for nothing NBN.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I have been on NBN for a week and a half now, I signed up for the 100/40 FTTN speed boost plan.

After complaining to Telstra, I was informed today I'm in an area on coexistence for 18 months. Apparently I should have been told before signing the contract for 100/40 plan. Telstra has their hands tied, changing ISP won't make a difference and the Ombudsman won't act against NBN being wholesale rather than retail.
So 10mbps it is until the coexistence is removed. I was getting 13mbps on adsl2, absolutely gutted with no recourse, thanks for nothing NBN.

My suggestion to all is wait until 18 months after NBN arrives in your suburb then get it installed.

[wodahs]

wait 18 months after hey
I'm on the border of two suburbs the street is basically the divider same post code , my st number is the only one on the st even tho it goes ks and thru other suburbs
but back to the two suburbs thing if I put my address up with one suburb I'm getting fttc (curb) end of 2018 if I put the other up I get fttn beginning 2019
and
I put the address (only one address with the suburb my side of the st) with email updates in the site and got two emails back both stating the other
now the house is pre 80's and I have no phone line , was dug up prier to me buying 9 years ago and I was going to lay concrete where it would go so was going to lay conduit to support when it went thru

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

My suggestion to all is wait until 18 months after NBN arrives in your suburb then get it installed.

Plenty close to me getting 90mbs downloads, it's node lotto and I happened to lose. 😕

If everyonme were to sign up to NBN straight away the coexistence would be removed.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I have been on NBN for a week and a half now, I signed up for the 100/40 FTTN speed boost plan.

After complaining to Telstra, I was informed today I'm in an area on coexistence for 18 months. Apparently I should have been told before signing the contract for 100/40 plan. Telstra has their hands tied, changing ISP won't make a difference and the Ombudsman won't act against NBN being wholesale rather than retail.
So 10mbps it is until the coexistence is removed. I was getting 13mbps on adsl2, absolutely gutted with no recourse, thanks for nothing NBN.

Yep, I also get 13mbps on adsl2 and even though I want to go faster, stories like this are keeping me on this plan.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

My suggestion to all is wait until 18 months after NBN arrives in your suburb then get it installed.

Why?
I was one of the very first in my suburb and I've had the benefit of great speed and low congestion for about two years now. Why be one of the last to get onboard only to get lower speeds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Plenty close to me getting 90mbs downloads, it's node lotto and I happened to lose. 😕

If everyonme were to sign up to NBN straight away the coexistence would be removed.

I'm one of the first on NBN here in my street and no issues I'm on the 100/40 plan?

[Junkyard-Dog]

Epic thread mine, I know... but just to update - we "upgraded" to the NBN last week. Allow me to fill you all in on the experience.

1) The letter from the ISP said a technician would arrive any time between 8.30am and 12.30pm so I had to get my mum to wait for him - he never showed up.
2) call the ISP - the call centre informs us that we didn't even need to have anybody waiting at home because the technician only needed to access the node at the end of the street.
3) the modem arrives like half a week later - it's the wrong modem (they sent an adsl2+ one instead of vdsl).
4) I wait 8.5 days for the correct modem to arrive - had to use the internet on my phone for work stuff.
5) finally, the correct modem arrives but the internet speed is horrendous and keeps dropping out

Yep, it's flawless.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Epic thread mine, I know... but just to update - we "upgraded" to the NBN last week. Allow me to fill you all in on the experience.

1) The letter from the ISP said a technician would arrive any time between 8.30am and 12.30pm so I had to get my mum to wait for him - he never showed up.
2) call the ISP - the call centre informs us that we didn't even need to have anybody waiting at home because the technician only needed to access the node at the end of the street.
3) the modem arrives like half a week later - it's the wrong modem (they sent an adsl2+ one instead of vdsl).
4) I wait 8.5 days for the correct modem to arrive - had to use the internet on my phone for work stuff.
5) finally, the correct modem arrives but the internet speed is horrendous and keeps dropping out

Yep, it's flawless.

My experience seems to the exception rather than the norm.

I placed the order with Internode (FTTN) on a Monday, they said the tech would be come past at 9am the following Friday, he was there at 8:50am, was done by 9:15am (after moving the pair over at the pillar and doing a check within the premises). The service was active half an hour later. I had an old modem on which I reflashed the firmware to enable VDSL functionality. This was mid July this year and I haven't had a single issue since.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by Trump

My experience seems to the exception rather than the norm.


I placed the order with Internode on a Monday, they said the tech would be come past at 9am the following Friday, he was there at 8:50am, was done by 9:15am (after moving the pair over at the pillar). The service was active half an hour later. I had an old modem on which I reflashed the firmware to enable VDSL functionality. This was mid July this year and I haven't had a single issue since.

*shakes fist in anger at you*