Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-03-2018, 01:44 PM   #61
Junkyard-Dog
*barks incessantly
 
Junkyard-Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SA
Posts: 1,552
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

I usually like just about everything MB does but that thing is bloody hideous.
Junkyard-Dog is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 02-03-2018, 01:45 PM   #62
Raptor
^^^^^^^^
Donating Member2
 
Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,628
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: For quietly going about moderating in a fair and even manner. 
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post
Now we’re fitting bigger tyres and wheels to the Merc - yeah righto that’ll do it, not even gunna waste typing an answer to that.
You just did

Can I remind a number of you posting in this thread that name calling, insults and the like targeting other members is not on. So far I've just been editing it out but it's becoming a bit too common for that to continue.

Play nice.
__________________
.
'93 XG Falcon Ute( sold ) : '94 ED Falcon Classic ( sold ) : '04 Territory SX TS ( sold ) : '04 Falcon RTV BAII ute (still in the family)
Raptor is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 02-03-2018, 02:26 PM   #63
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevsta007 View Post
I dont think the Amarok is that quick, at least I haven't read that it is.

I've driven my mates Amarok up in Darwin, its very refined and handles the corrugated roads great. accelerated ok but I wasn't out to set 0/100 times
I agree. I drove one and it wasn't really impressive at all. It might be reasonably quick for a dual cab ute but it's acceleration is about what you would get in a sohc falcon 6 from 20 years ago.

An F150 Platinum with a V6 Ecoboost on the other hand is very quick for a 2.5 tonne block of flats. Couldn't believe how well they go.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 02-03-2018, 06:46 PM   #64
Dave R
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,960
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Valued contributor especially in the FG threads. Offers help and information to all. Posts are always in a positive manner. 
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post
Even if the Ranger Raptor was offered with a motor running the same power as the Merc I’d still opt for the 2 litre. Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
Are they getting the little engine because it's cheaper or because it's more fuel efficient, or both? Genuine question, my knowledge is not state of the art when it comes to Rangers.

My thinking is there might be an argument for the standard models, but I can't see droves of folks spending big bucks on something that is called a 'Raptor' (with everything that name implies) and opt for less grunt. I assume when you're in the position to spend 60 or 70 grand on a leisure ute (sorry Ford lady, "truck") there's probably enough disposable there to not sweat about fuel. Maybe I'm out of touch.

As a vain and petty man I'd likely opt for the Benz at a similar price point if it meant I wasn't getting my doors blown off by grandma in her Mazda3. If Ford does an ecoboost V6 (should have kept the Twin Force concept name, but alas everything is eco in this century) I'd be half interested, might make an interesting tow vehicle.
Dave R is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 03-03-2018, 12:11 PM   #65
Ben73
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Ben73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,332
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post


Am I disappointed Mercedes offered a 190kw/550Nm engine to Fords 157kw/500Nm for the Ranger Raptor? Sorry to disappoint you, no I’m not. Even if the Ranger Raptor was offered with a motor running the same power as the Merc I’d still opt for the 2 litre. Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
The ones who buy the 4 cylinder wouldn't happen to be the private buyers looking at buying the cheapest model and business buying cheap fleet cars?
From what I last heard private buyers chose the 5 cylinder more often than the 4.
I bet with this X Class most will be sold with a v6. At least Merc and VW give you and option on your engine choice. Ford said "here is our performance truck and here's the wheezing engine. Bad luck if you want something bigger"
Ben73 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 03-03-2018, 01:26 PM   #66
naddis01
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
 
naddis01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post
Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
Only about 10% buy the small capacity Ranger. Why? Because they are cheaper no other reason. They are provided for the tight ****s and from my experience are generally heavily discounted. They are not more efficient in my experience. I've had 2 of them and now have a 3.2.
naddis01 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-03-2019, 08:57 PM   #67
Syndrome
Ford screwed the Falcon
 
Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,840
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

$100,000 for a tarted up Nissan Navara?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...36d0cefb4be251
__________________
Falcon: 1960 - 2016

My cars

Current ride
2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual

Previous rides
2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto
2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto
2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual
1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual
1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto
1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto
Syndrome is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 16-03-2019, 09:13 PM   #68
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,233
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndrome View Post
$100,000 for a tarted up Nissan Navara?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...36d0cefb4be251
Definately overpriced but it seems that the journo's can't add up .....................

"Priced from $79,415 plus on-road costs, the X-Class is one of the more expensive utes you can buy.
That’s before you factor in optional extras — our test example brought gear such as leather seats ($1750), sports bar ($6227) and tow pack ($2063), pushing its price to an eye-watering $94,731 plus on-roads, or more than $100,000 in the traffic. "
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 07:00 PM   #69
hayseed
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,895
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasOLane View Post
sports bar ($6227) and tow pack ($2063),"[/I]

talk about rape & pillage, on those prices...
hayseed is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 07:15 PM   #70
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasOLane View Post
Definately overpriced but it seems that the journo's can't add up .....................

"Priced from $79,415 plus on-road costs, the X-Class is one of the more expensive utes you can buy.
That’s before you factor in optional extras — our test example brought gear such as leather seats ($1750), sports bar ($6227) and tow pack ($2063), pushing its price to an eye-watering $94,731 plus on-roads, or more than $100,000 in the traffic. "
For that price, you could get a Ram 1500........
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 09:41 PM   #71
au2000
AKA "the other bloke"
 
au2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

For that price I WOULD by the Ram
__________________
Her's: 2000 AU II Fairmont Ghia 75th anniversary VCT meteorite & 2014 yaris - white
His Toy: 2012 fg II GT-E, emperor red
His: VS Ute 5 Litre 5 speed (povo pack)
His: 2012 FG II GS, Vanish
His: 2003 BA GT-P, Lightening Strike
Jnr: 2002 AU III Falcon XR6 ST, 5 speed Blueprint & 1978 XC Fairmont Neptune Blue

Previous:
1976 HX 50th Anniversary Kingswood
2014 FGX G6E Turbo
1980 XD Falcon GL
2003 BA Falcon XR6
1991 EB Falcon S
1989 EA Fairmont
1982 XE Fairmont
1968 XT Falcon
au2000 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 10:02 PM   #72
naddis01
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
 
naddis01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
For that price, you could get a Ram 1500........
I think the RAM would hold more street cred in this class as well despite the 3 pointed star on the X Class.
naddis01 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 10:31 PM   #73
yakcam
I drank what?
 
yakcam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In a state of confusion
Posts: 567
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

I've seen both the X Class and RAM frequently on the road (I'm a courier) and can tell you that the X Class is just another ute. The RAM on the other hand is very impressive and has almost as much road presence as a F250 super duty... almost
__________________
I will not be taking any criticism, constructive or otherwise.
yakcam is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 10:59 PM   #74
hayseed
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,895
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by naddis01 View Post
despite the 3 pointed star on the X Class.
just Lipstick on a Pig.......
hayseed is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 11:00 PM   #75
hayseed
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,895
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by au2000 View Post
For that price I WOULD by the Ram
Me Too.
hayseed is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 11:25 PM   #76
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayseed View Post
just Lipstick on a Pig.......
Bloody expensive lipstick
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 17-03-2019, 11:53 PM   #77
smoo
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
smoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,960
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

I don’t think these are selling too well, in NZ anyway.
Last month I took a look at one of the dozens of four cylinder 2018 plated examples on yards around the country. Discounted from around nzd 72k down to 54k. Huge discount, despite that I can’t bring myself to spent that sort of coin on these Thai Utes.
Mercedes would be better off offering their own 150kw/510nm 2.1 four cylinder diesel with the 9 speed auto and low range in the base model as opposed to the Renault/Nissan one.
smoo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 17-03-2019, 11:57 PM   #78
arronm
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
 
arronm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perth
Posts: 7,256
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Any ute that cant fit a pallet between the wheel arches is useless

Merc can , Navara cant. Ranger cant..
__________________
BA BF FPV starter button repairs. PM me.


Nizpro equipped and Tuned by the BEST in the west
Xtreme Ford Tuning

479RwKw Fuel limited, more pumps and power too come.

F6#0507 & #0639 Pro racer and Tech expert

NIZPRO modifying falcons like Premcar can only dream of , see VIDEO below.
https://youtu.be/oa4IfguGQ-A
arronm is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 18-03-2019, 08:05 AM   #79
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm View Post
Any ute that cant fit a pallet between the wheel arches is useless

Merc can , Navara cant. Ranger cant..
Which obviously isn’t an impediment to most of those buyers..
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 18-03-2019, 09:31 AM   #80
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,864
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakcam View Post
I've seen both the X Class and RAM frequently on the road (I'm a courier) and can tell you that the X Class is just another ute. The RAM on the other hand is very impressive and has almost as much road presence as a F250 super duty... almost
There would mostly be X250D's on the road atm.
The X350D has a wider track so should look more impressive.


Add bolt ons, wheels and a sticker pack and they can look very impressive
https://www.carlexdesign.com/en/pick...es-x-class-exy
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-03-2019, 10:48 AM   #81
Dr Smith
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melb.
Posts: 4,377
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Slightly related, I watched a YouTube video of a US-based car reviewer where his last video was on the topic of luxury brands and the excessive option prices they charge or conversely comparably low standard spec list. His chosen vehicle was a 2018 Range Rover Vogue @$US95,000 and how a new Rav4 at $US40k had more standard safety features etc.

An interesting point he made was a Range Rover buyer would never look at a Rav4 and therefore doesn't know what the standard specs are. Thus when faced with paying for options in their RR which are otherwise standard features in half price or lower cars, they just think this is what it costs to get these features...and the luxury brand car manufacturers will hold off for as long as possible as well.

Now in the case of the X-Class this probably isn't the case as I'd imagine buyers have owned other utes before and probably have cross-shopped so have a better understanding of what is standard/options and costs between brands.

If I was a tradie I'd probably be more concerned of what a potential client would think when I roll up in an X-Class and submit my quote. I had that issue to a lessor extent when we had a T5 Transporter and no-one bats an eyelid with a Transit Custom or Trafic.

Around my side of town most tradies drive more common brands and let their wives hang out in X5's/GLE's/Q7's/RR Sports.

Last edited by Dr Smith; 18-03-2019 at 10:56 AM.
Dr Smith is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 18-03-2019, 02:08 PM   #82
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 10,572
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Smith View Post
If I was a tradie I'd probably be more concerned of what a potential client would think when I roll up in an X-Class and submit my quote.
Not a lot, I've rolled up on my bicycle or Kenworth on a couple of occasions doing quotes and it didn't bother the client. They're more interested in the ability of what you can do for them.
I would love to take one of these things on a weeks trial and see how it survives.
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 18-03-2019, 03:36 PM   #83
hayseed
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,895
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

I'm Pretty sure a Tickford ranger would be "getting up there" in Price....??
hayseed is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-03-2019, 01:17 PM   #84
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,192
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasOLane
Definately overpriced but it seems that the journo's can't add up .....................

"Priced from $79,415 plus on-road costs, the X-Class is one of the more expensive utes you can buy.
That’s before you factor in optional extras — our test example brought gear such as leather seats ($1750), sports bar ($6227) and tow pack ($2063), pushing its price to an eye-watering $94,731 plus on-roads, or more than $100,000 in the traffic. "
GST or something maybe? I'm assuming this would be LCT exempt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by arronm
Any ute that cant fit a pallet between the wheel arches is useless

Merc can , Navara cant. Ranger cant..
Can't imagine any of these Merc utes doing any work for a living, so what is the point of it being able to carry a pallet?
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 19-03-2019, 02:38 PM   #85
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by naddis01 View Post
Only about 10% buy the small capacity Ranger. Why? Because they are cheaper no other reason. They are provided for the tight ****s and from my experience are generally heavily discounted. They are not more efficient in my experience. I've had 2 of them and now have a 3.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline
Are they getting the little engine because it's cheaper or because it's more fuel efficient, or both? Genuine question, my knowledge is not state of the art when it comes to Rangers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben73
The ones who buy the 4 cylinder wouldn't happen to be the private buyers looking at buying the cheapest model and business buying cheap fleet cars?
From what I last heard private buyers chose the 5 cylinder more often than the 4.
I bet with this X Class most will be sold with a v6. At least Merc and VW give you and option on your engine choice. Ford said "here is our performance truck and here's the wheezing engine. Bad luck if you want something bigger"
Dont mix up the slow 2.2 with the more powerful 2.0. The 2.0 Twin turbo from the Raptor is more expensive than the 3.2. chrisandsharon was talking about the 2.0, not the 2.2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post


Am I disappointed Mercedes offered a 190kw/550Nm engine to Fords 157kw/500Nm for the Ranger Raptor? Sorry to disappoint you, no I’m not. Even if the Ranger Raptor was offered with a motor running the same power as the Merc I’d still opt for the 2 litre. Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-03-2019, 03:10 PM   #86
naddis01
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
 
naddis01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by kypez View Post
chrisandsharon was talking about the 2.0, not the 2.2.
Well actually no, the part of the post I quoted from chrisandsharon was referring to the 2.2. Considering the post was made over 12 months ago, the 2.0 hadn't even been released then.
naddis01 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-03-2019, 03:14 PM   #87
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by naddis01 View Post
Well actually no, the part of the post I quoted from chrisandsharon was referring to the 2.2. Considering the post was made over 12 months ago and the 2.0 hadn't even been released then.
while the post is 12 months old, he is still referencing in 2.0 given the power outputs listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post

Am I disappointed Mercedes offered a 190kw/550Nm engine to Fords 157kw/500Nm for the Ranger Raptor? Sorry to disappoint you, no I’m not. Even if the Ranger Raptor was offered with a motor running the same power as the Merc I’d still opt for the 2 litre. Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
Edit: Got this one wrong!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue

Last edited by kypez; 19-03-2019 at 03:42 PM.
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 19-03-2019, 03:37 PM   #88
naddis01
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
 
naddis01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisandsharon View Post
Even in the current Ranger there are customers who choose the smaller capacity engine - imagine that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naddis01 View Post
Only about 10% buy the small capacity Ranger. Why? Because they are cheaper no other reason. They are provided for the tight ****s and from my experience are generally heavily discounted. They are not more efficient in my experience. I've had 2 of them and now have a 3.2.
If you go back to my post, that is what I quoted. Not the entire post made by chrisandsharon. Quite clearly the "current" Ranger 12 months ago was not available with the 2.0 despite the reference to the Raptor earlier in the post.
naddis01 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 19-03-2019, 03:38 PM   #89
kypez
Donating Member
Donating Member2
 
kypez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,132
Default Re: Mercedes Benz X-Class

Quote:
Originally Posted by naddis01 View Post
That is what I quoted. Quite clearly the "current" Ranger 12 months ago was not available with the 2.0 despite the reference to the Raptor earlier in the post.
Stupid me! I get it now! Apologies!
__________________
My Ford Family...
2014 GT-F, Manual, Kinetic with Black Stripes
2021 Mustang Mach 1, Manual, Velocity Blue
kypez is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL