New speed Cameras

[EDManual]

I dont really care about all the speed cameras. As long as they are not average speed cameras and you are awake! you should notice them and slow down if you were speeding. You deserve it if you are too asleep to not notice a falcon wagon sitting dangerously where no normal driver would sit one foot off a country road.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I dont really care about all the speed cameras. As long as they are not average speed cameras and you are awake! you should notice them and slow down if you were speeding. You deserve it if you are too asleep to not notice a falcon wagon sitting dangerously where no normal driver would sit one foot off a country road.

I do, only because thats the only focus the government seems to have - there is never any talk about greater driving training or preventing accidents they will simply install more cameras and the road toll continues to climb (even as cars are fitting with ESC, more airbags etc) - its not working

[Dezza]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Ok, biting tongue real hard!

Without going into my usual rant, I will say this.

The last death on Victorian Roads, the driver was doing 20 to 40KpH.
Whilst more speed camera's have been installed, between 2003 and 2007 the road toll has gone up by 3, currently 2008 is where 2007 this time last year!

Fact: Speed cameras do not save lives.
Fact: Government is doing nothing to decrease the death toll
Fact: Government is making millions instead of making roads safer.

100% agreed with you here. Most accidents are caused by people not paying attention, and by people being impatient (cutting people off etc.), not the person doing 85 in an 80 zone.

[GK]

Originally Posted by RG

Ballarat is getting its first speed/red light camera. They've managed to find one of the safest intersections that is heavily used but rarely has accidents. Just down the road from that intersection is one that is not quite so heavily used but has more accidents and is more dangerous.

Now tell me that isn't blatant revenue raising.

Good point.

Thinking about it, why are they spending so much money on speed cameras when there's still a stack of country railway crossing with no boom gates?

Originally Posted by SB076

Yet the intersection at Hallam were there have been recent deaths there is no traffic lights (think they are still trying to obtain funding for the traffic ligths yet they can find funding for more cameras.............)

Dodgy indeed.

GK

[bluebloodxr8]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Ok, biting tongue real hard!

Without going into my usual rant, I will say this.

The last death on Victorian Roads, the driver was doing 20 to 40KpH.
Whilst more speed camera's have been installed, between 2003 and 2007 the road toll has gone up by 3, currently 2008 is where 2007 this time last year!

Fact: Speed cameras do not save lives.
Fact: Government is doing nothing to decrease the death toll
Fact: Government is making millions instead of making roads safer.

YEP. no arguments here.
Why s it so obvious to some, but vigourously debated by others? :

GK...Boom gates don't pay bills

[GK]

Originally Posted by bluebloodxr8

YEP. no arguments here.
Why s it so obvious to some, but vigourously debated by others? :

GK...Boom gates don't pay bills

Too true.

GK

[XR8GRL]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Fact: Speed cameras do not save lives.
Fact: Government is doing nothing to decrease the death toll
Fact: Government is making millions instead of making roads safer.

Now if only the brainwashed public would realize this.

[dom_105]

Seems like I'm going to have to use the GPS for more than navigation.

Yep, pure revenue raising and all the rest of it, but we can and moan all we want, nothing will change until Labor is out of office.

I'd like to see stats to back up the claims of the safety aspect of these cameras. Show me stats, and no spin, and I'll back Brumby to the hilt.

[Kenay]

hmmm speed cameras be carefull of the old cars on the side o the road
i got caught by a eb fairmont wagon .. now that ****ed me off

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Kenay

hmmm speed cameras be carefull of the old cars on the side o the road
i got caught by a eb fairmont wagon .. now that ****ed me off

I've heard people say things like this, but never ever seen anything other than new or relatively new (2-3 year old) cars. Anyone else had this experience?

Have the new fixed camera locations been released yet?

[fatnlow]

reading through this thread, I can only sit and nod with the majority, why is it that the general public can't see that the government is just revenue rasing with speed cameras? How can they (being the general populous) continue to believe that speed cameras save lives? It's the teacup orbiting the sun arguement. Frustrating to say the least.
I have held off from buying a GPS unit for the car, don't REALLY need one, but with the increasing population of speed cameras right across the country and maps being update constantly, maybe now is th etime to buy one as a safety precaution. Or have a radar detector hidden install done. Oh yes, they do exist.

[Thankfull]

Of course being an Owner of a GT Falcon....I am totaly against the idea of cars being manufactured so that they could not exceed the State Speed limit, on the Open road.

If they where seriouse about saving lives....then that is what they would do for starters....we all know nobody buys a car unless it can claim to do at least 180kph before the rev limiter kicks in (Ba series 1 XT Wagon as example)

Cheers

[4Vman]

You cant argue logically that they haven't slowed people down nor that they haven't potentially saved lives because there's no way to know or measure "what might have happened"...
They ARE a deterrent to speeding, plain and simple.
Until excessive speed is no longer a factor in most road fatalities and serious injuries you'll never win a debate with any govt that trying to slow people down to sensible appropriate speeds isn't a worthwhile objective.
Im not saying there isn't a revenue component to their existence, but to claim they're ONLY for revenue and the govt doesn't care is just plain naive..

flame away...

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You cant argue logically that they haven't slowed people down nor that they haven't potentially saved lives because there's no way to know or measure "what might have happened"...
They ARE a deterrent to speeding, plain and simple.
Until excessive speed is no longer a factor in most road fatalities and serious injuries you'll never win a debate with any govt that trying to slow people down to sensible appropriate speeds isn't a worthwhile objective.
Im not saying there isn't a revenue component to their existence, but to claim they're ONLY for revenue and the govt doesn't care is just plain naive..

flame away...

No, good point. The best way to train people is via their hip pocket.

I think anybody who flames what you've said is missing the larger picture.

[MAD]

Yeah they are a deterrent, but not a very good one.
The majority of people spend most of their driving time on roads they drive regularly and therefore they learn where the cameras are located and slow accordingly.

There are far better ways, I'm sure, to deter speeding or encourage safe driving, but none of them will earn money for the government.
They may not be ONLY for revenue, but sure as hell they are HIGHLY influenced by it.

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You cant argue logically that they haven't slowed people down nor that they haven't potentially saved lives because there's no way to know or measure "what might have happened"...
They ARE a deterrent to speeding, plain and simple.
Until excessive speed is no longer a factor in most road fatalities and serious injuries you'll never win a debate with any govt that trying to slow people down to sensible appropriate speeds isn't a worthwhile objective.
Im not saying there isn't a revenue component to their existence, but to claim they're ONLY for revenue and the govt doesn't care is just plain naive..

flame away...

No argument here either.

Regardless of your opinion on revenue raising or whatever...if you don't speed through the camera it won't take your picture. Not that hard to figure out.

If there were more police on the roads enforcing road laws then people would complain that there are too many police on the roads..."jeez it's a totalitarian state..." (steady Flappy) or "why aren't they out catching real criminals" and all the other rhetorical excuses under the sun.

Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. Gummint will always look at the cheapest means of being seen to be doing something about something out of it's control in the first place.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAD

Yeah they are a deterrent, but not a very good one.
The majority of people spend most of their driving time on roads they drive regularly and therefore they learn where the cameras are located and slow accordingly.

There are far better ways, I'm sure, to deter speeding or encourage safe driving, but none of them will earn money for the government.
They may not be ONLY for revenue, but sure as hell they are HIGHLY influenced by it.

If people are aware of them then how come so many people still get zapped then!!!!
Do i like speed cameras? NOPE, i hate them, id prefer to drive at my own speed without fear of a fine, other people are ruining my driving "experience".
Do i speed? NOPE, try not to anymore, i don't want to contribute to brack's coffers.
Can i do anything about them? probably not, at-least not while people keep making donations via fines! and people keep doing 50++K's over the limit and getting caught and people keep killing themselves on our roads from excessive speed collisions..
Want to be angry at someone for their existance? blame the people donating and caught well over the limit and involved in high speed collisions.. its their fault.

Here's a question for the anti camera zealots, If nobody got caught by speed cameras for 3 months what do you think might happen to them??

[GK]

Originally Posted by Kenay

hmmm speed cameras be carefull of the old cars on the side o the road
i got caught by a eb fairmont wagon .. now that ****ed me off

You're kidding right?

I've wondered why they don't use much older cars. They'd trick a lot more people that way, and trickery is what it's all about IMO.

Originally Posted by Rob

I've heard people say things like this, but never ever seen anything other than new or relatively new (2-3 year old) cars. Anyone else had this experience?

Not myself or anyone I know.

Originally Posted by Rob

Have the new fixed camera locations been released yet?

Yep. It was in the Herald Sun a few days ago and I got an email from someone recently with the same information.

A quick web search found this.

http://www.delonixradar.com.au/victoria/

It's probably got everything you'd want to know about speed cameras, how they work, the different types, how to work out if one has been set up correctly / incorrectly, where they are located etc, etc, etc.

Here is a list from Sunday's Herald Sun of the new locations.

Metropolitan

Dandenong-Frankston Rd and Hall Rd - Carrum Downs
Dandenong Rd & Warrigal Rd - Chadstone
Sydney Rd and Gaffney St - Coburg North
Pascoe Vale Rd and REservoir Drive - Coolaroo
Sth Gippsland Hwy & Thompsons Rd - Cranbourne
Doncaster Rd & Tram Rd - Doncaster
Monash Fwy & Heatherton Rd - Doveton
Hoddle St & Wellington Parage - East Melbourne
Nepean Hwy & Davey St - Frankston
Dandenong - Frankston Rd & Skye Rd - Frankston
Princes Hwy & Fitzgerald Rd - Hallam
Hallam Rd & Coral Drive - Hampton Park
Kew Junction - Kew
Canterbury Rd & Colchester Rd - Kilsyth
South Gipps Hwy & Lyndbrook Blvd - Lynbrook
Batman Ave & Swan St - Melbourne
Victoria St & Exhibition St - Melbourne
Nepean Hwy and Bungover Road - Mornington
Nepean Hwy & Mornington/Tyabb Rd - Mornington
Princes Hwy & Chandler Rd - Noble Park
Princes St & Nicholson St - North Carlton
Centre Rd & Huntingdale Rd - Oakleigh Sth
High St & Mahoneys Rd - Reservoir
City Rd & Montague St - South Melbourne
Melton Hwy & Kings Rd - Taylors Lakes
Springvale Rd & Burwood Rd - Vermont South

Rural

Sturt St & Gillies St - Ballarat
15th St & San Mateo Ave - Mildura
York St & MacArthur St - Sale
Raglan Parade & Mahoneys Rd - Warrnambool
Hume Hwy & Lincoln Causeway - Wodonga

GK

[MIEF9640]

You all sit here and procrastanate about revenue try getting out there with interstate truck drivers day in day out and you will see first hand revenue raising
The biggest issue here is education of drivers if you are stupid enough to be doing well in excess of posted speed signs and then find you are confronted with a speed camera you are the one putting innocent people at risk by all of a sudden braking to get down under the limit. So don't sit here and blame everyone else if you are doing it legally then where's the problem " You do the crime you do the time" it's that simple.

[GK]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Do i speed? NOPE, try not to anymore, i don't want to contribute to brack's coffers.

Brumby's coffers, but point taken.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's a question for the anti camera zealots, If nobody got caught by speed cameras for 3 months what do you think might happen to them??

They'd drop the tolerance to 1% and announce a new program to install 50 more. LOL!

GK

[cant]

When your just cruising along, seemingly going with the 3 lanes of traffic on a down hill stretch and two weeks later you get a ticket saying your estimated speed is 106, and you get billed for 104 ! (insert expletive) up to 10% over the limit is just REVENUE RAISING.

If your doing 120 in a 50 zone then you deserve the fine, and deserve to be walking !

PS, love these threads, it gets everyone fired up, wish I had Brumbys Email address to forward a link to !

[UNR8D]

deleted

[MAD]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If people are aware of them then how come so many people still get zapped then!!!!

Why have the Eastlink cameras caught bugger all people?
I get what you're saying, but its slightly contradictory to what you said in your previous post. If they are a deterrent, then why are so many people getting caught still?

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Can i do anything about them? probably not, at-least not while people keep making donations via fines! and people keep doing 50++K's over the limit and getting caught and people keep killing themselves on our roads from excessive speed collisions..

Those making donation for 50+ks over the limit are the minority, I dont have the stats but I reckon they would be over 80% favouring the less than 10ks over crowd.
How many road deaths were caused by speeds less than 10ks over?

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's a question for the anti camera zealots, If nobody got caught by speed cameras for 3 months what do you think might happen to them??

A couple of options:
1. The gov would shout to the world that speed cameras actually work.
2. The gov would install more as they werent making enough money (eg. first post)

[Dezza]

hmmm. One of the new locations is Centre Rd & Huntingdale Rd. That's about 2 minutes from my place, and I have seen a few near misses there. It's not from speed though. It's just when there's a green light, they don't have a red turning arrow the same way, meaning people turn right in front of cars going the opposite direction. They need to change this setup, not just stick a camera there.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAD

A couple of options:
1. The gov would shout to the world that speed cameras actually work.
2. The gov would install more as they werent making enough money (eg. first post)

If the camera's stopped catching people they've achieved 1 of their purposes.
Secondly If the cost to run the camera's is greater than the revenue they collect id suggest they'd soon disappear....

[SB076]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You cant argue logically that they haven't slowed people down nor that they haven't potentially saved lives because there's no way to know or measure "what might have happened"...
They ARE a deterrent to speeding, plain and simple.
Until excessive speed is no longer a factor in most road fatalities and serious injuries you'll never win a debate with any govt that trying to slow people down to sensible appropriate speeds isn't a worthwhile objective.
Im not saying there isn't a revenue component to their existence, but to claim they're ONLY for revenue and the govt doesn't care is just plain naive..

flame away...

Fair points and no reason to be flamed for that - If I can I will see if I can find a graph of the road toll and the major events that influence the road toll. Things like wearing seat belts etc had a significant impact on the road toll. We havent seen the same reduction in the road toll since the introduction of "safety cameras" Granted the population has increased, but also the safety of cars has increased (with ABS, better engineering, airbags etc) So its difficult to say what impact speed cameras have on the road toll but it doesnt appear to be much (IMO)

Think some of the things I find frustrating is that we have "black spots" that are known and even sign posted, however there doesnt appear to be the funds to fix them, however the government can find the funds to install new camers (although not install them at the black spots)

Driver training is still poor (IMO) and whilst a lot acknowledge it, nothing gets done.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by SB076

Fair points and no reason to be flamed for that - If I can I will see if I can find a graph of the road toll and the major events that influence the road toll. Things like wearing seat belts etc had a significant impact on the road toll. We havent seen the same reduction in the road toll since the introduction of "safety cameras" Granted the population has increased, but also the safety of cars has increased (with ABS, better engineering, airbags etc) So its difficult to say what impact speed cameras have on the road toll but it doesnt appear to be much (IMO)

I would like to see a graph of total road injuries (including death).
I have a feeling we would see a lot more people are surviving heavy accidents now days with better cars and equipment.

[GK]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

If the camera's stopped catching people they've achieved 1 of their purposes.
Secondly If the cost to run the camera's is greater than the revenue they collect id suggest they'd soon disappear....

Interesting second point. I wonder what the operating costs are?

GK

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GK

Interesting second point. I wonder what the operating costs are?

GK

I'll take a wild stab that a mobile camera would probably be around $180K per year to man, operate and maintain? Fixed probably $90K pa to service and maintain??
That's without any initial set-up, retrieval or fine processing and administrative costs.
Administrative costs would be around $20 per infringement notice, most large companies estimate it costs approximately $20 to raise an invoice.
How many fixed and mobile cameras are there in Vic?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Here's a question for the anti camera zealots, If nobody got caught by speed cameras for 3 months what do you think might happen to them??

The speed limits would be lowered until they started raising revinue again......