2018 Ranger Raptor - Page 45

articulatedsphinx · 04-09-2018, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Are you feeling alright?
Theres a reason why Cruisers with 140l fuel tank capacities have dominated this landscape..

We'll have to wait and see.

I totally agree that a petrol engined version would be worse again.

Whilst I agree with you, knowing nothing about land cruisers I looked up their (and others) specs. They have a payload of the following.

Toyota HiLux 925kg
Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series 610kg
Toyota Prado 545kg
Toyota 70 Series Payload is, at its lowest, 785kg for the Workmate Wagon and tops out at 1235kg in the single-cab GX.

With these numbers, and their fuel consumption I don't understand how those would be much better? Like I said before, I think people tend to just strap the kitchen sink to these things and ignore the weight limitations.

Could someone please enlighten, how all this, plus 140L over the stock fuel tank weighs less than 610kg?

simon varley · 04-09-2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Why doesn’t Ford offer both?

they don't feel they need to. they believe they can sell all they want in diesel. the incremental units they would sell as a petrol would never recoup the development costs.

Vesper Martini · 04-09-2018, 12:47 PM

They would base their decisions on target competitor - how many Petrol Hilux's are sold these days - I know they dropped the old 4.0 V6 which made about 0.5% sales

prydey · 04-09-2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

they don't feel they need to. they believe they can sell all they want in diesel. the incremental units they would sell as a petrol would never recoup the development costs.

but 3 people on a small internet forum in Australia wanted one. surely that would make it worth their while??

BENT_8 · 04-09-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

Whilst I agree with you, knowing nothing about land cruisers I looked up their (and others) specs. They have a payload of the following.

Toyota HiLux 925kg
Toyota LandCruiser 200 Series 610kg
Toyota Prado 545kg
Toyota 70 Series Payload is, at its lowest, 785kg for the Workmate Wagon and tops out at 1235kg in the single-cab GX.

With these numbers, and their fuel consumption I don't understand how those would be much better? Like I said before, I think people tend to just strap the kitchen sink to these things and ignore the weight limitations.

Well you can forget about the Hilux and Prado because they are just toys, the 200 series is a wagon capable of carrying 8 people so when you factor in the extra seats and the additional weight of being a wagon over a ute, having only 610kg is fair, strap a canopy to a Raptor, and youll want to if you plan on fanging around in the red dust with your equipment in the back, and youll have eaten into that remaining 500kg again.
The good thing about the cruiser is that its combined consumption figures are only slightly more than those given for the Raptor and it has its reserves already accounted for with the extra 60l as standard, room to stow your gear and it still has 610kg of payload.
Obviously the Cruiser wont perform as the Raptor will but again, what point is having a vehicle which can reach every point of the compass if to do it in a fashion which sets it apart from a run of the mill vehicle you'll need to bog it down with fuel reserves and accessories.

Hey, its just my opinion and i dont expect many to agree which is why i say we'll wait for real world experiences to shed some light.
Weve never had anything like it off the showroom floor before so no one can say with any certainty, but if the figures provided in that review are anything to go by, it will be a tad thirsty for its intended use i believe.

articulatedsphinx · 04-09-2018, 01:57 PM

Isn’t payload defined as all the contents and the passengers too?

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Vesper Martini · 04-09-2018, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Well you can forget about the Hilux and Prado because they are just toys, the 200 series is a wagon capable of carrying 8 people

Hilux & Prado toys? pretty sure mine can legally carry 8 passengers too

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The good thing about the cruiser is that its combined consumption figures are only slightly more than those given for the Raptor

surely your not taking that 14L/100 as its normal average? surely not.

Expect the RR to have a similar consumption to the Everest's 6.9L/100
https://www.motoring.com.au/ford-eve...tralia-114273/

how did we get on to comparing to a cruiser anyway? they are also way more expensive to purchase

**DFB FGXR6** · 04-09-2018, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

but 3 people on a small internet forum in Australia wanted one. surely that would make it worth their while??

Make that 1. The other two will want to buy one in three years time as a used example.

I'm personally disappointed with the engine choice for the Raptor but......

Ford are not going to spend millions of dollars to develop, certify and crash test a petrol (or diesel) V6 engine that is only going to sell a handful so late in the current life cycle of this model. Just because a few people are willing to spend 75K on one doesn't mean the program would be a viable, money making venture. Ford are a business.

Also, going by actually reading and watching the posted Drive article, at no point did the Raptor not deliver on what it was designed to do.

GTLEGEND · 04-09-2018, 07:34 PM

How many people bought the PX1 Petrol? Not many and it was dropped not long after its release.

Ben73 · 04-09-2018, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

but 3 people on a small internet forum in Australia wanted one. surely that would make it worth their while??

As opposed to the 2 people on a small internet forum in Australia who are preordering a 4 cylinder one because it is good enough?

Have you seen the Raptor ads on Facebook? Turns out more than 3 people think it's under powered.
I wonder how many more who don't even comment on online stuff have the same opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

How many people bought the PX1 Petrol? Not many and it was dropped not long after its release.

That's because it's a cheap base model work vehicle. Not a $75,000 ute that has performance pedals, performance gear stick (paraphrasing Ford AU) that can do 170km/h down a rough rutted road and can easily jump a metre off the ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Why doesn’t Ford offer both? Offer the diesel for people who want fuel economy and range, offer the 2.7-3.0 V6 TT for people who want acceleration, speed, and throttle response. Everyone knows the pros and cons of both.

Because people in Africa and Asia don't like petrol engines.

CyberWasp · 04-09-2018, 08:53 PM

Just on a side note.
Couldn't there be a business case for someone like Tickford to order in Raptors minus the engines from the factory and then do their own Coyote Transplants.
It is the right gearbox to work with too.

BENT_8 · 04-09-2018, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Hilux & Prado toys? pretty sure mine can legally carry 8 passengers too

surely your not taking that 14L/100 as its normal average? surely not.

Expect the RR to have a similar consumption to the Everest's 6.9L/100
https://www.motoring.com.au/ford-eve...tralia-114273/

Notice how in your sig before Prado it says 'hers'..thats what i mean

No. im talking the 9.5l/100km that Toyota suggests it returned under test conditions, 1.3l/100km more than the 8.2l/100km suggested in the article for Raptor.

chevypower · 04-09-2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Because people in Africa and Asia don't like petrol engines.

I’m talking about Australia, not Africa or Asia.

articulatedsphinx · 04-09-2018, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

As opposed to the 2 people on a small internet forum in Australia who are preordering a 4 cylinder one because it is good enough?

Have you seen the Raptor ads on Facebook? Turns out more than 3 people think it's under powered.
I wonder how many more who don't even comment on online stuff have the same opinion.

Money talks bull**** walks. Go try ordering a Raptor now at the dealer and let me know when you can pick it up next year.

Keyboard warriors are always loud. We will find out either way with registration data and sales figures soon enough.

BENT_8 · 05-09-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by articulatedsphinx

Money talks bull**** walks. Go try ordering a Raptor now at the dealer and let me know when you can pick it up next year.

Keyboard warriors are always loud. We will find out either way with registration data and sales figures soon enough.

Theres little doubt that they will sell in reasonable numbers to begin with because theres people out there who'll pay whatever they ask just to be different to the rest of the crowd in the same manner that people will pay a premium for a Camaro over a Mustang but the question will be, at what expense, if it canibalises Wildtrack numbers.

prydey · 05-09-2018, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Theres little doubt that they will sell in reasonable numbers to begin with because theres people out there who'll pay whatever they ask just to be different to the rest of the crowd in the same manner that people will pay a premium for a Camaro over a Mustang but the question will be, at what expense, if it canibalises Wildtrack numbers.

I don't think it will matter a great deal. If it sells here, then all good. If it just replaces some wildtrack sales, the transaction prices are similar, so they aren't losing out. If it ends up being a bit of a gimmick and not having lasting success, then Australia will just get deleted from the export list. I'm pretty sure it wasn't developed just to sell in Australia. It will probably sell more in 1 month in the US as what Australians will buy in a year.

prydey · 05-09-2018, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Also, going by actually reading and watching the posted Drive article, at no point did the Raptor not deliver on what it was designed to do.

I don't recall him saying he had to push the engine hard to achieve what it did either.

I did notice the use of the paddle shifts rather than left in auto. Not sure if this is just the personal choice of the journo, or a recommendation from Ford when driving on sand...

From my experience, sometimes people think they know better than the engineers, and ignore the manufacturer recommendations on how to drive the vehicle, and then make claims about how it does or doesn't perform. Not saying this was the case, but it wouldn't surprise me.

There were comments in a different article about the trans 'hunting for the right gear' a lot. may have even been in the Everest review. perhaps with 10cogs, the car just changes gears more than people are used to to keep the engine in its optimum rev range?? just thinking out loud.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 05-09-2018, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

It will probably sell more in 1 month in the US as what Australians will buy in a year.

Yeah, people over there will buy it as their kids first car, or as a small run around for the wife, they would consider a Ranger a small car much like we treat the Fiesta here.

I could not be bothered reading the whole thread if it has already been mentioned, what is the expected retail price in Australia drive away for the Ranger Raptor??

RANGEREST · 05-09-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Yeah, people over there will buy it as their kids first car, or as a small run around for the wife, they would consider a Ranger a small car much like we treat the Fiesta here.

I could not be bothered reading the whole thread if it has already been mentioned, what is the expected retail price in Australia drive away for the Ranger Raptor??

$75000 plus orc, $80-85000?
Edit $82835.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SHRM-AD-504827

**PepeLePew** · 05-09-2018, 06:23 PM

I doubt Ford expect to sell a bucketload, they seemed content selling whatever numbers of Focus RS they ended up with....I'd hope they never decide no more to small volume halo vehicles. It'd suck.

articulatedsphinx · 05-09-2018, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANGEREST

$75000 plus orc, $80-85000?
Edit $82835.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...SHRM-AD-504827

I can tell you that I ended up paying way less than that, somewhere on the order of 5.5k ish less. Dealers are actually willing to negotiate before the whole flood of orders came in. Don't put up with bull**** delivery charges.

Then I'll whack the GST off the top and brings the whole thing down to around 68k. Not bad at all.

Blueford260 · 05-09-2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Just on a side note.
Couldn't there be a business case for someone like Tickford to order in Raptors minus the engines from the factory and then do their own Coyote Transplants.
It is the right gearbox to work with too.

Not trying to shoot down your idea but I highly doubt Ford would entertain the idea of selling a Raptor to Tickford without a motor so if Tickford were to do it they would have to buy one from a dealer the same as the rest of us at whatever price they could negotiate
Then they would have to buy a create motor make sure it’s going to fit without any major modifications.
Develop a wiring harness to intergrate into the Ranger computer
Develop an exhaust system
Maybe look at the front suspension and steering as I would assume the coyote would be bigger and heavier than the 2L
Maybe look at the diff, axles and drive shaft as more power might = more stress on components
Brakes might need upgrading maybe
Probably a heap more stuff I missed
Need to get it all engineered
Probably have to give some type of warranty with it
And would defiantly have to make some money out of it to make it all worth while
It would probably take maybe 12 months or more of development in a test mule
So I would imagine they would have to sell them for $150K plus and that’s only if they could sell a decent quantity of them
Again it’s a cool idea but in reality how many would they sell to make it worth the outlay to develop it.

articulatedsphinx · 05-09-2018, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Just on a side note.
Couldn't there be a business case for someone like Tickford to order in Raptors minus the engines from the factory and then do their own Coyote Transplants.
It is the right gearbox to work with too.

You could also just buy an F150 raptor.

BENT_8 · 05-09-2018, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't recall him saying he had to push the engine hard to achieve what it did either.

I did notice the use of the paddle shifts rather than left in auto. Not sure if this is just the personal choice of the journo, or a recommendation from Ford when driving on sand...

It mentions how hard it had to work in the sentence right before the use of paddle shifters.

'In the desert, though, the motor needs to worked hard, and it’s best to use the beautiful magnesium steering wheel paddles to rifle through that broad spread of gear ratios and keep the engine in its sweet spot, whether cruising at high speed or charging in and out of the scrub.
Digging deep into its reserves for hours on end also takes its toll on efficiency, as we recorded double its claim in the harshest sections and consumed an average of 14.1L for the entire journey.'

**DFB FGXR6** · 05-09-2018, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It mentions how hard it had to work in the sentence right before the use of paddle shifters.

'In the desert, though, the motor needs to worked hard, and it’s best to use the beautiful magnesium steering wheel paddles to rifle through that broad spread of gear ratios and keep the engine in its sweet spot, whether cruising at high speed or charging in and out of the scrub.
Digging deep into its reserves for hours on end also takes its toll on efficiency, as we recorded double its claim in the harshest sections and consumed an average of 14.1L for the entire journey.'

ANY engine under those conditions would be working HARD and would take a toll in its efficiency.

**GasoLane** · 05-09-2018, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

It mentions how hard it had to work in the sentence right before the use of paddle shifters.

'In the desert, though, the motor needs to worked hard, and it’s best to use the beautiful magnesium steering wheel paddles to rifle through that broad spread of gear ratios and keep the engine in its sweet spot, whether cruising at high speed or charging in and out of the scrub.
Digging deep into its reserves for hours on end also takes its toll on efficiency, as we recorded double its claim in the harshest sections and consumed an average of 14.1L for the entire journey.'

I've driven in mildish desert with small dunes in the NT, and if you don't 'work the motor' you stop.

BENT_8 · 05-09-2018, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I've driven in mildish desert with small dunes in the NT, and if you don't 'work the motor' you stop.

Fair call but if it was insignificant to the process, as in standard practice for the conditions, why mention it?

**GasoLane** · 05-09-2018, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Fair call but if it was insignificant to the process, as in standard practice for the conditions, why mention it?

Perhaps it was the journalist's first time off of the tar roads

vztrt · 05-09-2018, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

How many people bought the PX1 Petrol? Not many and it was dropped not long after its release.

Dropped in oz...available in South African market still.

Surprised they never entertained the lpg model. Courier fleet numbers might have been interesting.

pottery beige · 05-09-2018, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Fair call but if it was insignificant to the process, as in standard practice for the conditions, why mention it?

have you done any sand driving recently??