Take That holden!

tickfordboy · 02-01-2019, 01:04 PM

https://www.caradvice.com.au/714647/...e-in-21-years/

Sorry, got a little excited

Sprint XR8 · 02-01-2019, 01:19 PM

Dowling must be a bit slow if he thinks this result is an upset.

BENT_8 · 02-01-2019, 01:52 PM

Do you think some new guy over at Toyotaforums.com will be starting a thread about Toyota selling 4 of their bland white goods to every 1 of ours..

I notice private buyers are buying more ZB's than the last batch of VF's, kinda puts pay to the belief that ZB sales are all fleet rentals.

jpd80 · 02-01-2019, 01:53 PM

I just saw Hilux was over 50,000 for the year..that's impressive

jpd80 · 02-01-2019, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I notice private buyers are buying more ZB's than the last batch of VF's, kinda puts pay to the belief that ZB sales are all fleet rentals.

I had to read these two sentences a couple of times:

Quote:

However, there is a silver lining for the Commodore: the imported model accounted for about 75 per cent of sales of the nameplate in 2018, according to confidential industry figures.

And in a shock for some industry observers, more private buyers purchased an imported Commodore than one of the last locally-made models in 2018, albeit by a slim margin.

The two facts you can draw from those sentences is
- 2018 sales mix was 25% VFII (first three months?) and 75% ZB for rest of the year.
- Retail- fleet sales mix was slightly better for ZB compared to VFII

Yeah I'd take that with a grain of salt, by January most of the V8s were gone..

Bossxr8 · 02-01-2019, 04:31 PM

I don’t know why they keep talking up the whole ford vs holden thing. Former foa president graeme whickman said to a few of us that we don’t even see them as a competitor anymore, and don’t even use any of their vehicles as any form of benchmark cause they are nowhere near class leading in any valuable segment. It’s toyota, mazda, hyundai etc now.

**FTE217** · 02-01-2019, 04:54 PM

Stupid journalism.

Syndrome · 02-01-2019, 06:05 PM

Any irrelevant victory over what has become an irrelevant brand.

jpd80 · 02-01-2019, 08:20 PM

Mind you, I'm still hoping that Holden has worked down it's mountain of unsold vehicles
and can now start 2018 with a cleaner slate. 2018 was a steep learning curve for Holden
but now the worst is probably behind them...fingers crossed.

BENT_8 · 02-01-2019, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don’t know why they keep talking up the whole ford vs holden thing. Former foa president graeme whickman said to a few of us that we don’t even see them as a competitor anymore, and don’t even use any of their vehicles as any form of benchmark cause they are nowhere near class leading in any valuable segment. It’s toyota, mazda, hyundai etc now.

And thats what i've been saying for 2 years now, the battle is no longer between Ford and Holden, its between Toyota and all the rest.

Claiming a moral victory over a struggling former rival who's just closed the doors on their biggest drawcard isnt that special that its worth making a point of, especially when were talking less than half a thousand units per month.

The biggest challenges as i see it is maintaining ladder position ahead of the other bit players who are making significant advances in product desirability and customer satisfaction by way of market leading warranty and professional after sales service.

anobserver · 02-01-2019, 08:59 PM

"The last vehicle to top the 50,000 mark was the Holden Commodore in 2008, with 51,093 sales."

Thats a drastic change. And it still rankles that we won't be building any of those big selling suvs and 4wds here.

GASWAGON · 02-01-2019, 09:16 PM

The new 2.8 Litre Hilux's have major DPF/Oil burning issues.

My dads mate has one and its burning oil at only 20,000k's old (He's a mechanic so he's totally ****ed off!!!!) and a few of us have seen them blowing heeeaps of white smoke from the exhaust in the last 6 months.!!!!!!

Apparently theres going to be a MAJOR case against Toyota because of the huuuge problem.

BENT_8 · 02-01-2019, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFBarraWGN

The new 2.8 Litre Hilux's have major DPF/Oil burning issues.

Apparently theres going to be a MAJOR case against Toyota because of the huuuge problem.

Serious!!

danzvtil · 02-01-2019, 09:34 PM

Not a reason to celebrate, Holden is flat on its face at the moment, and ford is Steven Bradbury. Yay, we won!

Ben73 · 02-01-2019, 10:37 PM

I'm surprised it's taken this long. Does Holden sell anything decent these days? Thinking of their models they are all middle of the segment at the absolute best. New Commodore seems decent, but do they sell enough of the dying segment.

roddy1960 · 02-01-2019, 10:46 PM

Took me bloody ages to see a new Commodore in the metal ..Ended up being a station wagon in the work car park about 6 weeks ago . Yesterday I saw three in the space of one day .. One in particular (white) looked pretty nice . Saw they put out 235 kw , not especially torquey but not terrible ..

Will never sell too many but certainly an okay car apparently ..

jpd80 · 03-01-2019, 01:22 AM

Ranger most likely did around 40,000 sales last year, it's been a long time since Ford had a vehicle sell like that.

What 2018 showed us was how desperate Holden was to maximize sales with seriously aggressive discounting,
they made a big mess over ordering but under Butner, that mess is nearly gone / cleared away..
While Ford just basically mailed it in by relying on Ranger, Mustang, Everest and Escape for ~90% of sales,
for most of the year, there was no urgency to do deals and no aggressive discounting..

BENT_8 · 03-01-2019, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

for most of the year, there was no urgency to do deals and no aggressive discounting..

True, but when they did it was to the tune of 12k, 8k off the RRP of XLT at $53k down from $61k and then 2.6k in servicing and the 1.5k gift card.

jpd80 · 03-01-2019, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

True, but when they did it was to the tune of 12k, 8k off the RRP of XLT at $53k down from $61k and then 2.6k in servicing and the 1.5k gift card.

That discount price and servicing was on superseded PXII models that were pretty much gone going into December.

Most of December's sales would have been the non-discounted PXIIIs with 5 year free service and gift card.

The comparable Hilux SR5 was also priced at $52,990 DA most likely, last of 2018 plates..

Bent 8,
Just saw that the MY19 Ranger with a 2018 plate is now discounted at $52,990 DA
but again, this will only be a handful to salt buyers just like Toyota is doing the 2018 plate SR5s..

BENT_8 · 03-01-2019, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Bent 8,
Just saw that the MY19 Ranger with a 2018 plate is now discounted at $52,990 DA
but again, this will only be a handful to salt buyers just like Toyota is doing the 2018 plate SR5s..

I was gonna say, i double checked that and even then felt a little anxious posting it as i know you're fairly well up to speed on this stuff..lol

One things for sure, if you were in the market for a new Ranger, theres never been a better time.

roddy1960 · 03-01-2019, 08:42 AM

Not bagging Holden at all ...no point in that but if 40,000 Rangers sold and about 10,000 Mustangs or thereabouts , obviously a few of the other offerings , it's probably not the worst of times for the Blue Oval in a cluttered market .

What's the sales of Mondeo , Focus and Fiesta been like ?.. Not too many I suppose . The Mondeo is growing on me and if I was in the market these days might be considered .

Here's something from a bit back on these sort of cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgQ7GQbn0e8.. and a similar look at the station wagon market by the same bloke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9XZel-wg8 ..

I don't think any of these sell in numbers the manufacturers are thrilled with more's the pity .

jpd80 · 03-01-2019, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I was gonna say, i double checked that and even then felt a little anxious posting it as i know you're fairly well up to speed on this stuff..lol

One things for sure, if you were in the market for a new Ranger, theres never been a better time.

Yep, $8,000 off a brand new Ranger for waiting a few weeks, gotta love 2018 plate sales in January.

jpd80 · 03-01-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Not bagging Holden at all ...no point in that but if 40,000 Rangers sold and about 10,000 Mustangs or thereabouts , obviously a few of the other offerings , it's probably not the worst of times for the Blue Oval in a cluttered market .

Yes but what confounds so many of us is how does Ford do Ranger so well and then stuff up everything else?
New, better proportioned Focus, Focus Active and Endura should give Ford some fresh legs.

Quote:

What's the sales of Mondeo , Focus and Fiesta been like ?.. Not too many I suppose . The Mondeo is growing on me and if I was in the market these days might be considered .

But that's the point Roddy, many people who may have considered Mondeo have moved on.
The new, better proportioned Focus is here and hopefully will find an interested audience
but the big one needed this year is a new Escape as the current one is way past use by date.

**Raptor** · 03-01-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes but what confounds so many of us is how does Ford do Ranger so well and then stuff up everything else?
...

Ranger lead design team is the Aussies

(they're not immune to stuff ups either, e.g. Raptor Ranger being Diesel only WTF!)

.

Junkyard-Dog · 03-01-2019, 03:15 PM

I saw one of the police ZBs responding to a call a few weeks ago. The driver pulled a quick u-turn and planted it - no visible wheelspin at all and fairly impressive acceleration.

Seemed pretty quick.

BENT_8 · 03-01-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Yes but what confounds so many of us is how does Ford do Ranger so well and then stuff up everything else?
New, better proportioned Focus, Focus Active and Endura should give Ford some fresh legs.

Ranger sells because its 3.2l engine was the biggest in its class, my neighbour said he sells quite a few Dmax's to former Hilux buyers simply because they're not happy to take the smaller 2.8l, he believes this is why Ford is struggling to move the new Ranger as many customers believe the Ranger is now only available in 2.0l form, he said he doesnt argue, just signs them up.
He told me to keep n eye on Dmax sales over the next few months.
And before anyone calls BS, i've known this for a couple of months now and not mentioned it due to expecting that exact response, but they're his words and not mine.
For the record, his group also sell Ford.
May very well explain why the new model is struggling to the point of $8k discounts.

I doubt Focus will make any ground at all, the damage is done and too many people have been burnt.
I was discussing it with the Dealership salesman we bought my Wifes 2014 Trend manual off yesterday, he said straight out that he wont even stock an LZ auto as no matter how he tries to explain that they've gone back to the basic auto the damage is done, he now only stocks manuals and even then its hard to move them as people just wont look at them.
He said the only reason he even stocks them is because he pays so little due to the poor rep Focus and Ford have due to their handling of the situation, he can ask much less than the equivalent Lancer or i30 etc. and still make a profit.
The car we bought had already been discounted by 1k on new years eve when we first looked at it and he knocked another 1k off it without even haggling yesterday.
A 4yr old, 1 owner, well equipped car with 66k for under 10k driveaway with full RAA report from a Dealership.

jpd80 · 03-01-2019, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Ranger sells because its 3.2l engine was the biggest in its class, my neighbour said he sells quite a few Dmax's to former Hilux buyers simply because they're not happy to take the smaller 2.8l, he believes this is why Ford is struggling to move the new Ranger as many customers believe the Ranger is now only available in 2.0l form, he said he doesnt argue, just signs them up.
He told me to keep n eye on Dmax sales over the next few months.
And before anyone calls BS, i've known this for a couple of months now and not mentioned it due to expecting that exact response, but they're his words and not mine.
For the record, his group also sell Ford.
May very well explain why the new model is struggling to the point of $8k discounts.

The theory about buyer being capacity centric holds a lot o water as per the backlash with RR
It's interesting that Ford is discounting the 3.2 XLT Auto under 2018 plate sale yet no mention of 2.0 Ecoblue
If there was an issue with the new 2.0 Ecoblue, you'd think that would be the ones piling up unsold..

All the same, appreciate the intel on this, are your contacts saying this is Aust wide or local to Sth Aust?

Quote:

I doubt Focus will make any ground at all, the damage is done and too many people have been burnt.
I was discussing it with the Dealership salesman we bought my Wifes 2014 Trend manual off yesterday, he said straight out that he wont even stock an LZ auto as no matter how he tries to explain that they've gone back to the basic auto the damage is done, he now only stocks manuals and even then its hard to move them as people just wont look at them.
He said the only reason he even stocks them is because he pays so little due to the poor rep Focus and Ford have due to their handling of the situation, he can ask much less than the equivalent Lancer or i30 etc. and still make a profit.
The car we bought had already been discounted by 1k on new years eve when we first looked at it and he knocked another 1k off it without even haggling yesterday.
A 4yr old, 1 owner, well equipped car with 66k for under 10k driveaway with full RAA report from a Dealership.

Ford has an uphill job to sell Focus, sales were going away with LZ even before Powershyte became really public.
Focus was just plain old by then and not as roomy as the competition, EB and new 6AT helped but when the
scandal broke, that was the last straw for many..and so many also wrongly though Escape was also affected.

I think the new Focus is different enough to draw new buyer willing to give it a go but even then,
I think this may be a long hard road....

BENT_8 · 03-01-2019, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

The theory about buyer being capacity centric holds a lot o water as per the backlash with RR
It's interesting that Ford is discounting the 3.2 XLT Auto under 2018 plate sale yet no mention of 2.0 Ecoblue
If there was an issue with the new 2.0 Ecoblue, you'd think that would be the ones piling up unsold..

All the same, appreciate the intel on this, are your contacts saying this is Aust wide or local to Sth Aust?

Perhaps the discounting is to get the message out that the 3.2l is still available, it might not be a case of 2.0l's piling up but Ford not wanting to push that wagon at the expense of the bread and butter seller in the 3.2l.

Couldn't tell you how far the info is coming in from, although the network he works for is quite big and covers many brands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford has an uphill job to sell Focus, sales were going away with LZ even before Powershyte became really public.
Focus was just plain old by then and not as roomy as the competition, EB and new 6AT helped but when the
scandal broke, that was the last straw for many..and so many also wrongly though Escape was also affected.

I think the new Focus is different enough to draw new buyer willing to give it a go but even then,
I think this may be a long hard road....

I know from my own experience the reason we didnt pay the extra and get the LZ was simply due to the decrease in engine size despite the increase in power output.
Modern tech may provide that a highly strung 1.5l can deliver equal or better reliability than the tried and proven 2.0l but the slight fuel savings and slight increase in power is not worth the gamble from my perspective, not when the 2.0l in the LW2 is more than adequate when combined with the easy to use manual box.
When you look at the market leaders, Corolla, Mazda 3 and even Cerato who've maintained their larger capacity engines, it suggests customers dont mind the compromise for familiarity.
Perhaps im old fashioned, but i think this fad with small capacity turbo charged engines wont go the distance long term.

This sentiment translates to the uproar surrounding the 2.0l RR so there may very well be something in what i've been told, people relate smaller capacity to harder working and therefore reliability concerns.
As people in the know it probably sounds rediculous, but many buyers dont dig that deep even with all the answers at their fingertips.

Its funny because 15yrs ago i had a discussion with an engineer who said the next big thing in locally offered cars would be following in the footsteps of the Japanese domestic market in offering smaller capacity turbo charged offerings at a time when Japanese car makers were heading away from them.

naddis01 · 03-01-2019, 06:21 PM

I think the uproar over the Raptor was that most people were expecting a performance engine not one out of a van.

Mr Brooksy · 03-01-2019, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tickfordboy

https://www.caradvice.com.au/714647/...e-in-21-years/

Sorry, got a little excited

Don't forget Ford HQ has made the decision to pull the plug on a lot of its car models, and time will tell if a myriad of small SUV models will be enough to compensate. Ford may find this little victory harder to come by in years to come in Aus.