Gov' subsidized training courses. Are they a joke?A money making scam?

Spurious · 16-08-2014, 08:01 PM

My main question here is, do private enterprise get a cash subsidy from the government for operating training courses?

I ask because I've noticed a bit of a trend over the past few years.

I'm inclined to think this way because over 2 years ago I signed up with a business here in Tassie called Work&Training. They wanted to get people signed up & inducted to serve as their labour hire staff pool. So I did.

But....in the past 2 years they've offered me a whopping 3 hours work!!!
I waited 2 weeks after the induction & then asked them for work. They said they have some coming up soon. This excuse was used a couple of times, then the trainer quit (my labour hire liaison), then they started saying there's not much happening at the moment.
3 months of waiting & then they gave me 3 hours sub contracted work...then nothing!

So my theory is that if they set up a training course...of sorts, that they can then get money from the government for doing so.

As of right now I'm registered with Job services Aus (Mission AUS). Yesterday (Friday) I got a text from them asking if I'd be interested in a Cert' 2 course in Agriculture....whatever that is.

Now today (Sat) I spotted an ad in a local paper that a Cert 2 Agriculture trainer is sought after.
So my theory is that if the people running the course get the trainer, then get a certain number of folks signed up, that they can then get a sub' from the gov' to run the course.

The reality is though that you can gain all the certificates you want & do all the training in the world but it won't help you get a job if you don't have the accumulated hours of experience on the job!

At this point I'm prepared to sign up to the course on the proviso they pay me a wage to participate or guarantee me a job at the end!
. Neither of which will happen I bet...THAT'S guaranteed!!!

So is anyone here on AFF a member of Job services AUS & wish to shed light on this scenario?

uniacidz · 16-08-2014, 08:12 PM

From memory, gov dishes out round $1500 per participant at commencement of course and something like $1500 after completion of a course so potential for $3000 per person all up.

BENT_8 · 16-08-2014, 08:43 PM

In 1012 I started a cert 2 in Warehousing through a training mob I wont mention.
At the time my driving job had slowed down so I thought I'd expand my qualifications in the industry.

I rocked up for the first 3 weeks to a classroom above a shopping centre that didn't have one item associated with warehousing in the room.

In those 3 weeks all we covered was OHS stuff including making sure any foreign workers were made to feel at HOME...

The lecturer told us he was hoping we could get into an actual warehouse before the course finished and for those without a forklift ticket, the 1 day course was on offer.

I bailed, it wasn't worth the effort, sure I'd get the certificate, but that's worth stuff all if you have no hands on experience.

One thing I did learn from him was that those job network providers get $7k per client from Centrelink, which he said was given to them to be used directly on the client and that we should hassle them for whatever we needed.
He said anything left when they found you work went to them.

GASWAGON · 16-08-2014, 09:11 PM

Problem is thers not enough jobs advertised.....These job agencies try ther 'reverse marketing' but it does'nt always work. WHo knows how bad job searching will be once the car companies shutdown???

zilo · 16-08-2014, 09:43 PM

yes it is a scam.

The most disgusting one we have seen is the 600 bucks my wife had to pay to do a course with Lifeline to be a bloody volunteer!

At the end of it all they said she was unsuitable...but still took the 600 bucks!

it's put us off doing charity work for life.

Yellow_Festiva · 16-08-2014, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

yes it is a scam.

The most disgusting one we have seen is the 600 bucks my wife had to pay to do a course with Lifeline to be a bloody volunteer!

At the end of it all they said she was unsuitable...but still took the 600 bucks!

it's put us off doing charity work for life.

That's shocking.... Wouldn't have paid...

JC · 18-08-2014, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

In 1012 I started a cert 2 in Warehousing through a training mob I wont mention.
At the time my driving job had slowed down so I thought I'd expand my qualifications in the industry.

I rocked up for the first 3 weeks to a classroom above a shopping centre that didn't have one item associated with warehousing in the room.

In those 3 weeks all we covered was OHS stuff including making sure any foreign workers were made to feel at HOME...

The lecturer told us he was hoping we could get into an actual warehouse before the course finished and for those without a forklift ticket, the 1 day course was on offer.

I bailed, it wasn't worth the effort, sure I'd get the certificate, but that's worth stuff all if you have no hands on experience.

One thing I did learn from him was that those job network providers get $7k per client from Centrelink, which he said was given to them to be used directly on the client and that we should hassle them for whatever we needed.
He said anything left when they found you work went to them.

That is mostly correct, except the amount and the last part about providers keeping the funds, also the funding comes from a different department (not DHS/Centrelink). There is currently a draft RFT out for discussion for employment services 2015 - worth a read if you want to find out how the future is going to look for the unemployed and their future employment services providers. https://employment.gov.au/employment...nt-information

Original RFT for Current (2012-2015) servicing arrangements here:
https://employment.gov.au/job-servic...request-tender

Spurious · 18-08-2014, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I bailed, it wasn't worth the effort, sure I'd get the certificate, but that's worth stuff all if you have no hands on experience.

I completely agree.
I did a similar course through Work&Training here in Tas about 3 years ago.
The course was "part qualification in cert 2 of transport & logistics" (warehousing & storage). Basically 7 weeks of a 14 week course.

Consisted of multiple instructors (some without a clue), a rented space at a local motel, heaps of useless paperwork & 2 weeks work placement at the end.
I did get a payment from centrelink for doing the course but apparently that's a "one of" & not applicable for future courses.

The ONLY reason I went each day was to gain a forklift licence but even that was a joke really. 20 minutes on a forklift is not classed as "experience"!!!
Many employers have since told me that basically no business will put you on unless you have industry experience on a FL & many hours accrued. You usually need a truck licence to go with it too!

Spurious · 18-08-2014, 11:53 AM

Thanks for those links JC but seriously, who could be bothered sitting down & reading all that stuff. I can't.
The mind boggles as to who actually writes this stuff & what committee thinks it all up!

Thanks to those who responded to this thread.

In my honest opinion government subsidized training courses are run only to benefit those who run them & not those who participate.

As for the "job network Aus" industry, they are the biggest joke EVER!!!

Seriously, I rock up once a month, sit in a room with other jobseekers for about 5 minutes & then off we all go!
They asked me once "What can we do to help you get a job", I simply said "Give me a job, I'm ready to go".

I'm a hard worker, not afraid to break a sweat & get dirty doing it. I know how to dress for interviews but I do struggle with some employers ridiculous questions. I have all appropriate work gear to get me on a site, I also have years of experience in many different fields. So I honestly don't know why I can't get work. It's not for a lack of trying, that is for sure!!!

BENT_8 · 18-08-2014, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

In my honest opinion government subsidized training courses are run only to benefit those who run them & not those who participate.

As for the "job network Aus" industry, they are the biggest joke EVER!!!

Seriously, I rock up once a month, sit in a room with other jobseekers for about 5 minutes & then off we all go!
They asked me once "What can we do to help you get a job", I simply said "Give me a job, I'm ready to go".

I'm a hard worker, not afraid to break a sweat & get dirty doing it. I know how to dress for interviews but I do struggle with some employers ridiculous questions. I have all appropriate work gear to get me on a site, I also have years of experience in many different fields. So I honestly don't know why I can't get work. It's not for a lack of trying, that is for sure!!!

Job networks are a joke, if you ask me they were just set up to give the people working there a job.
Bring back job boards.

I remember back in the 90's I needed some work so I went to the old CES where they had the job cards on boards.
One company was looking for a junior so by their rules they wouldn't refer me(I was 18) so I just looked up every business of its type in the area it was advertised in.
Went down there and presented myself and got the gig. He was just happy to get someone through the door.

I couldn't do that today, today I need a professionally constructed resume with all the right words and a filing cabinet full of certificates to say I wont discriminate and that I can identify a power cord as an object I may trip over.
Then I need to sit in an interview at a Job Network whilst a person half my age leads me to answer questions that will make me appear to be a hopeless case and get me into category 1 so they can give me more help (Job Network jargon for receiving more Government funding).

I gave up stressing, im like you, keen to work, fit, prepared to do whatever it takes but for some reason I cant even get an interview.
Except for the ****** who wanted me to drive his truck for $9hr, but trust me at times I wish I took it anyway, which is embarrassing to think.

The irony is that every job I've ever presented for I've landed and have only been laid off once in my life and that was during this recent downturn, never sacked or asked to leave.

I felt a real kick in the guts last week. the bloke across the road just landed a job through one of his friends after 6 months out of work.
He then had the nerve to question how I can live with myself not having work.
I thought that pretty shallow considering I was his shoulder to cry on when his missus was leaving him 3 months ago and the bank had given him a foreclosure notice because he was busted **** broke.

I just keep sending off applications and cold canvassing, something will come up.

zilo · 18-08-2014, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Job networks are a joke, if you ask me they were just set up to give the people working there a job.
Bring back job boards.

I remember back in the 90's I needed some work so I went to the old CES where they had the job cards on boards.
One company was looking for a junior so by their rules they wouldn't refer me(I was 18) so I just looked up every business of its type in the area it was advertised in.
Went down there and presented myself and got the gig. He was just happy to get someone through the door.

I couldn't do that today, today I need a professionally constructed resume with all the right words and a filing cabinet full of certificates to say I wont discriminate and that I can identify a power cord as an object I may trip over.
Then I need to sit in an interview at a Job Network whilst a person half my age leads me to answer questions that will make me appear to be a hopeless case and get me into category 1 so they can give me more help (Job Network jargon for receiving more Government funding).

I gave up stressing, im like you, keen to work, fit, prepared to do whatever it takes but for some reason I cant even get an interview.
Except for the ****** who wanted me to drive his truck for $9hr, but trust me at times I wish I took it anyway, which is embarrassing to think.

The irony is that every job I've ever presented for I've landed and have only been laid off once in my life and that was during this recent downturn, never sacked or asked to leave.

I felt a real kick in the guts last week. the bloke across the road just landed a job through one of his friends after 6 months out of work.
He then had the nerve to question how I can live with myself not having work.
I thought that pretty shallow considering I was his shoulder to cry on when his missus was leaving him 3 months ago and the bank had given him a foreclosure notice because he was busted **** broke.

I just keep sending off applications and cold canvassing, something will come up.

Hope you have better luck mate, sounds like you need some.

Don't worry about that other bloke, Karma will sort it out.

BENT_8 · 18-08-2014, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilo

Hope you have better luck mate, sounds like you need some.

Don't worry about that other bloke, Karma will sort it out.

Im not worried about him really, he's an idiot really, but his missus is hot so I get my own back when she's washing the car in her shorty shorts...lol

olfella · 18-08-2014, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlivverFord

They asked me once "What can we do to help you get a job", I simply said "Give me a job, I'm ready to go".

I'm a hard worker, not afraid to break a sweat & get dirty doing it. I know how to dress for interviews but I do struggle with some employers ridiculous questions. I have all appropriate work gear to get me on a site, I also have years of experience in many different fields. So I honestly don't know why I can't get work. It's not for a lack of trying, that is for sure!!!

Apart from the cash flow, they are supposed to provide training to give you a better chance of landing a job. However most employers are a bit smarter than them because to be competent in a job (you have never done before) you have to have knowledge and experience. So where in this exercise does experience fit? The whole system stinks and I am a great advocate of how it was done in the 'good old days' pre Centrelink. You lobbed up to Social Security. went over the job boards. If you found a job that you could do you took it to the counter and Social Security rang the employer and said they had a starter. Bit of over simplification there but basically thats how it was and it worked!
Dont sweat about the bloke over the road. I found the best way to get a job was do some cold calling and asking as most jobs are word of mouth and networking. Hang in there and when the planets are aligned.....

Franco Cozzo · 18-08-2014, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Job networks are a joke, if you ask me they were just set up to give the people working there a job.
Bring back job boards.

At least mine is hot, she's like a mid 30s MILF. Makes it worth the 30 seconds to sign paperwork and leave again.

All she does is tells me to look on other job sites than seek and then gets me to sign paperwork and tells me to leave.

BENT_8 · 18-08-2014, 10:36 PM

Slightly OT, but in relation to the new Work For The Dole program.

That is wether the people on work for the dole are required to be covered by work cover.

If a 'candidate' is injured whilst performing duties would they be subject to the same work cover provisions of a regular employed person?

Franco Cozzo · 18-08-2014, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Slightly OT, but in relation to the new Work For The Dole program.

That is wether the people on work for the dole are required to be covered by work cover.

If a 'candidate' is injured whilst performing duties would they be subject to the same work cover provisions of a regular employed person?

In Victoria under the normal program they would have to be, employees, contractors and general public such as visitors are covered in OHS Act 2004, it has to be safe workplace for everyone.

I believe the green army thing the federal government is trying to implement for the younger ones they are planning to make it so they aren't covered by fair work act or health and safety regulations.

ray38l · 19-08-2014, 12:57 AM

honestly if you are looking for a job don't rely on the job network people.
I have been out of work since the start of this year. mainly because I didn't want to and also didn't need to work.
since starting to look for work again and having to go to job network providers I have found them to be useless. I have had jobs guaranteed if I renewed a ticket but because I wasn't enough of a bum the money wasn't there for me to do the training.
I decided to stop relying on them and take it all in my own hands. got a job even though it is casual I am clearing $2000 a week.
the job network provider keeps hassling me for a contact there so they can get the other people on there books jobs.
moral of the story is no one will help you if there is nothing in it for them.

Spurious · 19-08-2014, 07:51 PM

Some good responses here, thanks again for chipping in folks.

You definitely don't need to tell me the job network mob are monkeys. I missed an appointment last week, re-booked for the following day, rocked up to find the guy out to lunch. Good timing I thought. LOL

Hahahaha...Work for the Dole...that's just as big a joke. I got roped in to that last year. Barely did an hours work in 3 months. Baaaaaahahahaha!!!!
The guy running the show was just happy that we'd all show up. We'd chat over coffee for 30 minutes then say bye bye 'til next week!

Over the years I've learned how to play the system. They make it too easy.

I tell you though, for someone who is unemployed (aside from the odd gardening cashy), I am a busy man!!!
Vacuuming, washing clothes & the car, surfing the net, hangin' with my son & helping mum & family, fishing on the boat, maintenance on the boat, Mission AUs appointments...I tell ya' what, I don't have time for a full time job. LMAO

One bit of advice I will share, stay clear of "Job Rapido.com", I was using that site but some woman rang me from there last week & offered me $12,000 in training with a guaranteed job at the end. I was all for it 'til she mentioned paying it all back