XR8 vs SSV including dyno test

Sioso · 09-01-2015, 04:27 PM

http://www.carsales.com.au/reviews/2...mparison-48430

Ford Falcon XR8 v Holden Commodore SS V-Series Redline
Comparison Test

Unlike Cold Chisel, this last stand truly is it for a couple of Australian icons – barring a final Commodore upgrade and limited-edition 310kW Falcon XR6 later this year.

Since both Ford and Holden announced the cessation of their local vehicle manufacturing businesses, dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists have hoped for a white knight to swoop in and save the industry.

The reality is, however, that both the Falcon and Commodore will be lucky to survive until each company's planned cut-off date in 2016 and 2017 respectively, let alone beyond.

But, enough of the negative.

Ford has decided to go out with a bang in the form of its FG X-series Falcon range, though its lack of advertising that fact has left the general public unaware. Thus, it's up to the media to tell you about the resurrected XR8, which promises supercharged grunt and FPV dynamics from a smidge over $50k.

In the red corner, as ever, there's an admirable challenger: Holden's Commodore SS V-Series Redline. It's packed with premium gear for the exact same $52,490 base list price as the XR8, though with 'only' 260kW in auto form it can't hope to match the Ford's 335kW [Ed: at least until the 6.2-litre LS3-powered MY16 Commodore SS emerges].

Or can it?

Kilowatts… or kit?
To compare like-for-like, we're testing six-speed automatic examples of the XR8 and SS V-Series Redline. Both are priced at $54,690 (plus on-road costs).

Ford has raided the FPV parts bin to adorn the XR8 with its supercharged 5.0-litre quad-cam V8. It produces 335kW and 570Nm.

Under the skin the theme continues, with improved suspension (first seen in the FPV RSPEC special-edition) and wider, 275-section rear rubber. A Brembo brake package with four-piston front callipers is also added.

Holden's SS V-Series Redline also sports a Brembo front brake kit to go with its FE3 sports suspension package. The 6.0-litre naturally-aspirated pushrod V8 produces 260kW and 517Nm, 10kW and 13Nm shy of the six-speed manual variant.

If you value bang for your buck, the Ford has a massive advantage. On paper, it's some 75kW more powerful than the Holden, and boasts an additional 53Nm of torque. But when you thumb through the equipment lists, the Holden quickly makes up any perceived value deficit.

Both cars ride on 19-inch alloys and score an 8.0-inch colour touch-screen, sat-nav with live traffic updates, a reversing camera, Bluetooth with voice activation and audio streaming, dual-zone climate control, a nine-speaker audio system, leather-appointed trim, a powered driver's seat, digital radio (DAB+) receiver, front/rear parking sensors and automatic headlights and wipers.

Both also come with a full safety suite including electronic stability/traction control and dual-stage front airbags, front-side airbags and full-length side curtain airbags.

But while the XR8 – like all new Falcons -- brings an Australian-first automatic emergency assist function in the event of a serious accident, the Redline offers advanced driver aids like a head-up display, lane-departure warning, forward-collision alert and blind-spot monitoring as standard.

Like all Commodores, the top-spec SS also comes with an automated parking system and an electric park brake, but adds an electric tilt/slide sunroof, keyless starting and remote starting on auto models, which also now come with steering wheel paddle shifters.

Conversely, Ford went all-out on grunt with its born-again XR8. But the result is that there was little left to spend on adding features beyond an exterior nip and tuck.

Yes, there are nice touches such Ford's intuitive SYNC 2 connectivity system with handy text messaging support service for compatible phones and the two combatants continue to trade punches in the aftersales arena.

Ford offers a comprehensive seven-year/135,000km capped-price servicing program for the XR8, though the initial one-year/15,000km service is a pricey $380.

An industry-standard three-year/100,000km warranty is offered, with a further extension available at additional cost, and one year's state auto club membership is complementary with purchase (though roadside assistance is a cost option).

Holden's aftersales package is on-paper less impressive, with only nine-month/15,000km service intervals and a three-year/60,000km capped-price servicing schedule. However, that first service costs only $185.

Like the XR8, the SS V-Series Redline is covered by a three-year/100,000km standard warranty, with extensions available for an additional charge. Roadside assist is free for the first year of ownership.

Straining the shackles
Since we published chassis dynamometer figures as part of our FPV GT F and HSV GTS comparison in 2014 there's been much controversy between the warring blue and red parties regarding the said figures.

On this occasion we used a state-of-the-art Dyno Dynamics dynamometer, controlled by Motorsports Training Australia. Both vehicles were run within 20 minutes of one another, with recorded ambient temperature in the dyno 'room' of 27 degrees Celsius.

On its first run, the Redline produced 207.1kW, but subsequent runs dropped just under 200kW, giving a four-run average of 203.7kW at the rear wheels.

Swapping Holden for Ford, the MTA crew had to abort a couple of runs when the XR8 strained the shackles in its efforts to spin-up the dyno's rollers. Once settled, the XR8's supercharger howl forced anyone within earshot to stop what they were doing to see the final figure.

The result was a 286.6kW average, with a peak of 289.7kW at the wheels.

Although there are many factors to consider when converting chassis dyno results to flywheel power, a widely-used rule of thumb is to add 25 per cent, to allow for driveline losses.

Factoring this in sees the SS slightly under its advertised power figure with an average of 255kW, while the XR8 – like the '351kW' GT F – was comfortably over its claim, with a calculated average engine output of 358kW.

But rear-wheel output is what matters in the real world and there's no escaping the fact the XR8 produced 83kW more than the SS on average – even more than its claimed 75kW power advantage.

Unleashing the beasts
For those unconvinced by the Falcon's dyno performance, we undid the shackles and took both cars to the strip. It was here that the XR8 put its power advantage into practice.

As per our regular testing regime, the cars were placed in sports automatic mode and released from the brakes under throttle – just as regular drivers would on the road.

A full breakdown of figures is available in the specifications table at the end of this comparo, but in essence the Falcon's standing 400-metre run of 13.2 seconds, at a terminal speed of 181.6km/h, blew the SS V-Series Redline's 14.3sec, 163.0km/h pass into the weeds.

Of interest in this nostalgic time was that the Commodore's pass was slightly faster than the 14.4sec quarter-mile time credited to the legendary 1971 Ford Falcon XY GT-HO Phase III, seen as the paragon of our muscle car industry. But Ford's final XR8 was more than a second faster than both cars.

For reference, and as tested, the XR8 hit 100km/h in 5.5sec while the SS V-Series Redline took 6.4sec, meaning that in the right conditions a well-driven manual XR8 should be capable of consistent sub-5.0sec 0-100km/h passes, unlike the SS.

And while only 0.2sec separated them in the 50-70km/h rolling acceleration increment, the 80-100km/h test had them 0.4sec apart, the Ford completing it in 1.3sec versus 1.7 for the Holden.

Take it to the track
Given the accelerative punch and sheer size of these vehicles, exploring the outer edges of their respective performance envelopes can only be done on-track.

Herewith, our pro driver Luke Youlden set the lap times (published below) and offered his subjective feedback on how these cars handle up to and beyond their limits, on a billiard-smooth race track:

"Fresh from evaluating FPV's GT F and HSV's GTS, I'm keen to see how the 'budget' performance variants from Ford and Holden stack up.

"We're up at Wodonga testing the Commodore SS V-Series Redline against the Falcon XR8, and again it has to be said: this is not a track that suits big, heavy sedans. That said, it certainly provides a great bit of road to evaluate braking and handling characteristics in particular.

"My job is to provide feedback and impressions of these cars on track, and I'm basing my comments on performance alone. Just don't forget: these are road cars and not race cars.

"First up, the SS V-Series Redline.

"With a nice, dry track, new tyres (for now) and data logger set, we blast down the longest straight. The power comes on progressively and smooth but doesn't exactly pin your ears back… perhaps I've spent too much time in fast race cars lately and should refer to the previous paragraph!

"This car gives an immediate sense of confidence and I can brake quite late into the first turn. The brake pedal isn't too hard and provides good feel. Even with repeated lapping, the Commodore's Brembo brake package stops well and is resistant to fade.

"The Holden's turn-in characteristics are the most impressive element of the car. It responds much better than I anticipated, with very little understeer. It doesn't pitch much at all, and I can't help but feel that it has even less understeer – and better (chassis) response – than the HSV GTS.

"The unusual nature of some of the corners around this place requires aggressive trail braking and the SS V-Series Redline rewards you with a touch of turn-in oversteer that really makes the car dance in a very neutral, steady-state attitude through the corner.

"Corner exit is basically a non-event as the car has done all the hard work on corner entry. It's made the apex and I find myself winding off the steering lock early. Plus, with the wider rear tyre, I can be aggressive with my throttle application and really have to try hard to provoke any exit oversteer.

"Heading back into pit lane with a 59.3sec lap on the dash, I'm actually blown away with the lap time. I'm also blown away by how little understeer the SS V-Series Redline has, and by how unusual it is (for a road car) to have a touch of oversteer through the 'steady state' whilst not being too soft, suspension wise, in the front.

"Now onto the Falcon XR8…

"I was told Ford has responded to some feedback about its horrendously high seating position and cut a little bit of foam out of the base of the seat. I eagerly awaited my chance behind the wheel but I'm immediately disappointed because, if they have actually lowered it, it must be all of 5mm, as I can't pick the difference!

"On track I'm expecting the extra kilowatts supplied by the supercharger to give the Falcon a big edge in terms of lap times; but that thought is thrown out the window as I turn-in to the first corner.

"Understeer, understeer, understeer!

"I seem to have to wait an eternity to get back on the throttle and I can feel the time just ticking away. It's just far too soft in the front suspension for the track. "It pitches down too much, dumps all its weight over the outside front tyre – you can hear it screaming for mercy through every turn.

"Corner exit is definitely a balancing act with the extra power on tap, but I feel its oversteering attitude mostly stems from the mid-corner understeer, and the inevitable increased steering wheel angle preceding it.

"The XR8 therefore makes a great drift car; it's very easy to play with the pitch attitude dynamically and get some oversteer without even using the right boot. Not ideal for lap times, but a lot fun if you're not paying for the rear tyres!

"The brakes struggle a fair bit and fade with a couple of laps under its belt. This is one area where the SS V-Series Redline has a big advantage, not on one-lap performance, but in repeatability.

"The XR8, not unlike the GT F, isn't geared ideally for this track and seems to need and extra cog between second and third. This surprises me a little, as one would expect a supercharged engine to pull a taller gear quite well, but it really doesn't. The engine, although supercharged, needs a lot more revs than I would expect and only starts to get on with it up high in the rev range.

"Crossing the line around 2.5sec slower (at 61.73sec) than the SS V-Series Redline, the XR8's understeer is painful on track and left me wanting to climb out of it, or better still, to forget the stop watch and get on with frying the rear tyres Ken Block 'Hoonigan' style!

"The lap time says it all, however, and the SS V-Series Redline gets the nod from me. The Holden is generationally better than the Falcon, and even with the end in sight, there's surely some money in the kitty for a stiffer front bar and a set of springs on the Ford to make it really even up the score... on track at least."

Real-world rumblings
Luke's on-track observations – and hard lap times – once more reveal that power isn't everything. Heading into our real-world road test section, the battle remains evenly poised.

From behind the wheel of the XR8, there's an immediate FPV familiarity when the engine fires, though the XR8 lacks the drama of a push-button start. The seating position does feel marginally improved; I can now fit my thighs comfortably under the leather-wrapped, multi-function wheel, but it's still a tight, high-riding fit despite the supportive seats.

The highway leg of our journey reveals the XR8's any-gear, any-speed thrust, though there remains an odd sensation of delay before the torque converter locks up and gives full drive. At speed there is a surprising amount of tyre noise from the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx rubber, and there are already numerous dash rattles in the cabin.

In contrast the SS V-Series Redline is a smooth highway operator, quiet and refined, though in the heat of the day the thin dash covering becomes tacky to touch. The Holden's driving position is superior to the Ford's and its added equipment swag brings a sense that it is several years ahead of the Falcon.

Further differences are felt through the steering wheel rim, the Commodore's electric rack feeling initially vague before weighting up to provide solid turn-in response from the chassis. The XR8's responsive hydraulic set-up, meanwhile, has immediate off-centre weight, though when asked to go from lock to lock – say, from a 90-degree right to an immediate 90-degree left – presents a 'dead patch' that suggests the power steering pump can't quite keep up.

Riding the bumps common on Victorian country roads brings about an added layer of interactivity not felt at the track. Here, the SS V-Series Redline has the edge in ride, though multiple bumps reveal a slight 'floatiness' in the chassis that takes a moment for the damping to address. If the road imperfection is mid-corner, this delay saps confidence when re-applying throttle, as it robs rear-end grip.

In the Ford, the same abrasions are felt stiffly in bump, though it appears to maintain road contact better than the Holden. The Ford’s spring softness – as detailed by Luke on the track – works better on the road without the extremes of track braking and acceleration, providing reasonable traction if you’re smooth, especially considering the supercharged engine's power output and delivery.

So long as the surface is smooth the Holden shows excellent traction, thanks to 275-section Bridgestones and a relative lack of power and low-down torque. In corners where you have to tread lightly in the Falcon, lest the stability control intervene, the Commodore is already at full throttle.

In the real world the SS V-Series Redline's paddles are a particular advantage, especially when trail-braking into a corner. It becomes especially apparent when swapping back to the Ford and needing to trail brake to help the nose turn; it's a more relaxed process in the Holden.

Also of note on-road is that both brake packages work exceptionally well, hauling down the 1861kg Falcon and 1780kg Commodore repeatedly without fade along the High Country's most demanding roads.

If there's a whiff of straight, however, the XR8 bellows away. In short, it's harder work, but drive it smoothly and the rewarding power punch quickly becomes addictive.

It's all over, bar the shouting
From our past Ford v Holden performance comparisons, we know there'll be no swaying some people and, as always, the result depends largely on the emphasis you attach to attributes like performance and refinement. But, after an exhaustive, multi-faceted analysis of these key rivals we're ready to make a decision.

Some may dismiss the Commodore SS V-Series Redline after a glance at the spec sheet, but it would be to their detriment. The Holden translates a massive power deficit into a quicker lap time [Ed: though how much that matters in a road-car context is up for debate] and its smoother ride, quieter cabin and more extensive equipment list make it easier to live with on a day-to day basis.

On paper, the cake clearly goes to the Falcon XR8. It packs considerably more grunt and the performance figures – from the dyno room and on the road – bear this out. Yes, it was slower on our tight and twisty circuit, but this lack of final-degree track handling finesse is missing the point of these vehicles.

On the road, between surface imperfections and oncoming traffic, the XR8’s character shines through. Its superior steering and body control are welcome in the real world and its sheer explosive acceleration, not to mention its NASCAR soundtrack, adds further to its allure.

For the money, both cars deliver outstanding performance and value, but in the best tradition of the Australian muscle car, Ford's final Falcon XR8 gets the nod.

bradles024 · 09-01-2015, 04:37 PM

Does the Vf have digital radio

LoudPipes · 09-01-2015, 05:06 PM

Good write up.

BENT_8 · 09-01-2015, 05:08 PM

Finally, an article to appease the whingers...

Now all we need is the resident track specialist to tell us he could lap the XR8 quicker than Youlden and its a straight sets win.

Brodes · 09-01-2015, 05:19 PM

Great article, I seriously question Youlden's track results...

graphicgoose · 09-01-2015, 05:36 PM

Surely the fact that the SS-V Redline has been quicker around 3 different tracks by 3 different drivers can now put this to bed?! As the article states, the Ford has got it sussed in the power and straight line speed departments...but is, comparatively, lacking in handling and day-to-day creature comforts.

335JET · 09-01-2015, 05:57 PM

perhaps a set of shockworks coilovers is whats really needed for the XR8

BENT_8 · 09-01-2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BOSS 4LTR

perhaps a set of shockworks coilovers is whats really needed for the XR8

And a super charger for the Redline...

bangm001 · 09-01-2015, 06:37 PM

I just wonder if a simple tyre swap to the bridgestones for the XR would result in a much better lap time??!

MITCHAY · 09-01-2015, 07:09 PM

Ran what you brang. XR8 brang the power and the Redline brang pretty much everything else. Just about sums up every comparo of these cars before they turn into the usual arguments.

rancidpunx · 09-01-2015, 07:19 PM

Interesting Dyno figures. The Redline is in the right sort of ball park on previous experience with the 260/270 engine but the XR8 is way down on what it should be. Maybe Ford have detuned it slightly from the 375+ that the GT used to get.

LooLoo18 · 09-01-2015, 07:41 PM

The winner in all this is us the buying public if your after a performance 4 door it's happy days

SensationFG8 · 09-01-2015, 07:48 PM

Finally a reasonably well written article. That xr8 really does give the SS a fair hiding where it counts (straight line and road) performance wise.

Looks to me like Holden have made a nice little track car and ford have made an awesome muscle/GT car. If I was after a track car though the Holden would not be anywhere near the top of my list.

I'm personally still really keen to see this match up at the island or Bathurst.

GTP534 · 09-01-2015, 07:49 PM

I have a friend who used to race Formula V and is still involved with the category.

We chat about cars at work, he is also a Ford man.

He has always told me not to judge a road car by it's performance on a track, there are too many compromises.

Based on that write-up can we dare to say "Falcon XR8 - Australia's last great road car"?

I think so!

SensationFG8 · 09-01-2015, 07:56 PM

Yep and the Holden driver can hold the article up pointing to the track time while he eats the xr8's dust

mik · 09-01-2015, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangm001

I just wonder if a simple tyre swap to the bridgestones for the XR would result in a much better lap time??!

There is an old saying........ tyres make the car.

mik · 09-01-2015, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

Surely the fact that the SS-V Redline has been quicker around 3 different tracks by 3 different drivers can now put this to bed?! As the article states, the Ford has got it sussed in the power and straight line speed departments...but is, comparatively, lacking in handling and day-to-day creature comforts.

I read it the other way around .......in day to day driving the Falcon had better ride comfort and handling but missed out on the track handling ?

graphicgoose · 09-01-2015, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

I read it the other way around .......in day to day driving the Falcon had better ride comfort and handling but missed out on the track handling ?

Well my GT didn't have the Rspec suspension, but my Redline is much more comfortable and well behaved for daily driving than either the stock GT 335 suspension or the Shockworks coilovers.

MITCHAY · 09-01-2015, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Finally a reasonably well written article. That xr8 really does give the SS a fair hiding where it counts (straight line and road) performance wise.

Looks to me like Holden have made a nice little track car and ford have made an awesome muscle/GT car. If I was after a track car though the Holden would not be anywhere near the top of my list.

I'm personally still really keen to see this match up at the island or Bathurst.

I'd like to see them at least line up at Bathurst this year. If nothing else because they can. I always love it when they race cars of different eras.

If the XR8 can't pip or match the Redline there, it be fairly disappointing given the 3 decent straights it has to stretch its legs and bite into the handling advantages of the Redline and the extra rear Brembos to stop on.

Nevertheless both are awesome cars. If you can't have fun in either you're not doing it right I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

There is an old saying........ tyres make the car.

Yes never cheap out on tyres. Even in a AWD car, they make plenty of difference. By all reports I have seen Ford can't be bothered to put decent tyres on. Luckily if you shred them quick enough with a 335 engine you can put some decent rubber on

graphicgoose · 09-01-2015, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

If the XR8 can't pip or match the Redline there, it be fairly disappointing given the 3 decent straights it has to stretch its legs and bite into the handling advantages of the Redlone and the extra rear Brembos to stop on.

Redline doesn't have rear brembos, only the Craig Lowndes special edition does.

BENT_8 · 09-01-2015, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP534

I have a friend who used to race Formula V and is still involved with the category.

We chat about cars at work, he is also a Ford man.

He has always told me not to judge a road car by it's performance on a track, there are too many compromises.

Based on that write-up can we dare to say "Falcon XR8 - Australia's last great road car"?

I think so!

Australia's last great road car...?

You do realise the other mob haven't played their final card yet don't you.

Better hope they don't strap that SC on the upcoming 6.2l in the SSVR before it all goes belly up.

Wait for the Whincup edition...

MITCHAY · 09-01-2015, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

Redline doesn't have rear brembos, only the Craig Lowndes special edition does.

I meant the XR8. Probably was a bit ambiguous in what I wrote.

graphicgoose · 09-01-2015, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I meant the XR8. Probably was a bit ambiguous in what I wrote.

XR8 doesn't have rear brembos either...

MITCHAY · 09-01-2015, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

XR8 doesn't have rear brembos either...

Ok I thought they did. I could have sworn I read they have them all around.

arronm · 09-01-2015, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Australia's last great road car...?

You do realise the other mob haven't played their final card yet don't you.

Better hope they don't strap that SC on the upcoming 6.2l in the SSVR before it all goes belly up.

Wait for the Whincup edition...

And wait till they up the GTS to 500kw

SensationFG8 · 09-01-2015, 09:19 PM

It's still a gts and still ugly as sin.

Anything Holden do post 2016 is competing with nothing ford has.

BENT_8 · 09-01-2015, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

It's still a gts and still ugly as sin.

Anything Holden do post 2016 is competing with nothing ford has.

How do you come to that conclusion, Ford will still be selling cars in Australia so whatever the best they have will be what the SSVR/GTS will compete against.

HULK_I6T · 09-01-2015, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Ran what you brang. XR8 brang the power and the Redline brang pretty much everything else. Just about sums up every comparo of these cars before they turn into the usual arguments.

Good summation....

When the ss brings the ls3 it will be a perfect car..

That will be a very hard choice to make...

SensationFG8 · 09-01-2015, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

How do you come to that conclusion, Ford will still be selling cars in Australia so whatever the best they have will be what the SSVR/GTS will compete against.

We shall see, I know of no 4 door v8 ford are bringing to Australia. Things could change though.

More accurately things Holden do post 2016 are not competing with falcon.

arronm · 09-01-2015, 09:50 PM

I can see holden and HSV both upping the power and possibly both going out on top

It's a shame ford and FPV have fired their shots ,or have they

What about a 400 kW xr8. Ford will know what holden will be bringing. They need to step up

And I mean an always 400. Not just sometimes

The crown for Australia's most powerful family car is far from over