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Old 28-11-2010, 10:54 PM   #1
Fireblade
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Default Can the mainline be fudged

Hi,

I was at a Dyno day here in Adelaide today that my Holden mates were at, the shop in question ran a few cars and then ran off the list of my mates, the first mates car was rolled up on the dyno and we were left standing for 10-15 mins while the tuner/operator/owner of the dyno played with some dyno settings prior to running my mates cars. He didn't do this prior to running any other cars and he changed the settings back once all of my mates cars were run (they were all run back to back). Now all of my mates cars were down on power compared to previous mainline dyno runs, what we witnessed to the best of our knowledge through the secondary dyno screen was the operator/owner playing with ramp rates and loads. My question is can the mainline be fudged, and can playing with ramp rates and roller loads provide inaccurate dyno readings?

Thanks for your advice.
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:05 PM   #2
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the ramp rate can be adjusted but the rate is shown on the dyno printout.

Normally a ramp rate is selected that should suit the acceleration rate of the car being tested, a turbo six would have a faster ramp rate than say a NA 6 or sometimes even an NA 8, the ramp rate may have a small affect on power output.
Do not believe roller load can be adjusted, the load is set by the ramp rate, it allows the roller to turn i.e 13 km per sec, again it is printed on the dyno sheet.

The dyno correction formula, but not the settings can be adjusted to a different formula, this may have another small affect on power but again is printed on the sheet.

Tying the car really loose may allow wheel spin and loose power or tying to tight may rob power from tyre deflection

If the cars were left idling for a while, they may have suffered from heatsoak which will drop power compared to possibly left with dyno fans on them on previous runs ????
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:30 PM   #3
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No print outs were provided for any competitor so we can't get the complete ins and outs of what was changed, and we only got a quick glimpse of it. No car was left idling. Some of the figures are way low from what I can gather, would be handy to know what these would likely run from your experience ratter.

For example,
VY Clubsport running 1 3/4 extractors, 3" cats and twin 2.5" exhaust, VCM OTR, valve springs and tune 218rwkw.

VY Calais running 1 7/8 extractors, 3" cats, 2.5" twin exhaust, VCM OTR, 224/224 cam, 3000 stallie, built trans, 3.46 diff gears 225rwkw

Thanks for the info Ratter.
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F6 FOON
No print outs were provided for any competitor so we can't get the complete ins and outs of what was changed, and we only got a quick glimpse of it.

Thanks for the info Ratter.
Did you guys pay to attend this dyno day? if so I think its a bit harsh not getting a dyno sheet.
I cant remember seeing a dyno day where the owner of the car never got a sheet..
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Old 28-11-2010, 11:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoolMan
Did you guys pay to attend this dyno day? if so I think its a bit harsh not getting a dyno sheet.
I cant remember seeing a dyno day where the owner of the car never got a sheet..
cost was $50 for members and $70 for non-members, was going to give mine a run but decided against it and for $70 definitely not worth it. Also why we think it could possibly be fudged, but with no evidence
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Old 29-11-2010, 11:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by F6 FOON
VY Clubsport running 1 3/4 extractors, 3" cats and twin 2.5" exhaust, VCM OTR, valve springs and tune 218rwkw.

VY Calais running 1 7/8 extractors, 3" cats, 2.5" twin exhaust, VCM OTR, 224/224 cam, 3000 stallie, built trans, 3.46 diff gears 225rwkw
There can be several things which will determine final rwkw, i.e wheel size, tyre type, engine condition etc etc, but the first car I would think is close to where it should be possibly up to 225 rwkw, the 2nd one depnds on how loose te convertor is, who's cam it is etc but that may be 230-250 rwkw.

Please do not make my guess's as gospel to what they should be, they are just guess's, I see more Fords than Holdens
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Old 29-11-2010, 02:04 PM   #7
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Thanks Ratter, just trying to get a better idea of the positioning of these, both of these have good low km engines, but both run 20" wheels, converter is a tight new one. Now that you have given me some advice from what you have seen, it is now a dropped matter for me. Thanks.
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Old 29-11-2010, 02:33 PM   #8
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No worries mate, hope I helped

The 20's do affect power at the dyno but it would only be a difference if the other runs were done with smaller wheels and now later runs were done with the bigger wheels.
We have seen some hi stalls in XR6 Turbo's rob around 20 rwkw while others with the same or similar stall rob none, convertor age is not the problem, it is how it is built
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Old 29-11-2010, 02:44 PM   #9
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Main concern was money payed and then getting fudged on runs, those two cars were the lowest runs of my mates, 7 cars in total of my mates were run, all down on power from what we thought and knew.

thanks again ratter, and I will pass this info on to them.
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:25 PM   #10
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The VY sound very close to a mate of mine who spent 5k getting right exhaust and lower diff to get the magic 300 RWHP 301 I believe, I put a 600 tune box through my turbo and even on the economy tune {could not run 10 because of plug gap too large** car went 306 = unhappy mate.Had I run the ten and used 98 ron instead of woolies fuel he would have done himself in with a butter knife,lol
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Old 29-11-2010, 09:53 PM   #11
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Those were just the lowest ones, there was a WK Stato running everything the VY Calais had but larger cam 238rwkw, VX SS with 1 7/8 headers, full twin 3" stainless exhaust, ported ls2 manifold, 90mm TB, 248/??? cam, ported ls2 heads in a manual went 302rwkw, VX Senator with all the same bolt ons as the VY calais, largish boost cam, magnacharger, running 352rwkw. And last and least was a VX SC6, 10psi pulley CAI and exhaust running 139rwkw.

I have had mine on a dyno dynamics running 352rwkw and I think this has been fudged a little, I had a drive of the VX SS yesterday and it doesn't feel as fast as mine, but I reckon it would be with me in a race. I'm not interested in racing my mates as it can cause all sorts of silly grief but all of the numbers seem out for all of our cars, point is you can't rely on a dyno figure, MPH on 1/4 is the best way.

By the way these are all my best mates cars, I am the only one with a Ford lol
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Old 13-12-2010, 11:27 PM   #12
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A Mainline DynoLog Dyno has the inbuilt option of a workshop based version of the software, as well as a "Horsepower Challenge" mode which simplifies vehicle and owner details entry.
The Horsepower Challenge option has no bearing on the result when compared to the normal workshop version, all it does is offer the user some tools to view the cars tested in a highest to lowest HP for each catergory, and be able to print out these results for clubs etc.
We install some base catergories in this setup for a variety of cars such as 4cyl, 4 cyl turbo, 8cyl, 8cyl FI etc etc, but the operator still has full control of the Ramp rate to be used as commonsense should be used when testing vastly different cars that happen to be a "V8" for example.
The operator may just of changed from a slower to a faster ramp rate when going from a manual car to a high stall auto car, as this will reduce the time taken to perform the test and not have the owner of the car cringing when their high stall car sounds like it is being flogged to death if using a slower ramp rate.
When a high stall car is dyno tested, it very early on during the test will be at, at least whatever the stall speed is, so even though the dyno test may go from 80kph to 180kph, the engine may only go from 4000 to 6000RPM in this period. Compare that to a manual, where it may be only doing say 1800rpm at 80kph and 6000rpm at 200kph, so in this case you will hear a nice pull from a low to high RPM, where as the high stall will sound harsher as more overall engine revs will take place in the same amount of time.
Changing from a slower to a faster ramp rate on say a 200kw plus car won't have much if any effect within reason.
Just because the operator change a ramp rate doesn't mean he's fudged anything, you may be used to another brand that takes any intelligence away from the operator and doesn't allow him to think for himself and mandates he use a particular Ramp rate for a car just because it is a V8.
Hope this helps.
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Old 13-12-2010, 11:40 PM   #13
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Thanks Todd, they all received their dyno sheets last week, some of the figures are different but from my own judgement (no bias) I can't see anything outstanding to make me think he has gone out of his way to fudge them. After seeing some footage of the day I tend to think he has let them idle for long enough to introduce some heat into the equation. As with some forms of sport, tempers flare and some people look for ways to say they been screwed over.

Thanks again Todd, by the way, one of my mates involved is looking into buying his own Mainline dyno in the near future.
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Old 23-05-2012, 09:23 PM   #14
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Default Re: Can the mainline be fudged

i put my BF phoon on a mainline dyno about a month ago, $50, 3 runs and a print out, i was happy of my reading, she is dead stock and got 232.5 RWKW
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