Webber says what we're all thinking

RG · 29-03-2010, 09:40 AM

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/spe...-1225846638975

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald Sun

AUSTRALIAN Grand Prix driver Mark Webber has been accused of insensitivity towards victims of road trauma and their families.

Webber branded Victoria a nanny state yesterday, saying the growing number of rules and regulations left him feeling as though he needed to read an instruction book before getting out of bed.

Early voting by heraldsun.com.au readers appeared to back him up, with almost 80 per cent agreeing with him.

But the State Government hit back last night.

Are we over-regulated? Tell us, which laws do you think are unecessary? Add your comment below.

Minister Tim Holding, staunchly defending anti-hoon laws, said: "I don't think that anyone who has lost a loved one because of road trauma would think that Victoria's anti-hoon laws are too harsh."

His comments come amid weekend carnage in which five people died on our roads as Victoria appeared to be on the way to recording its worst road toll in five years.

Webber's outburst followed police catching Lewis Hamilton fishtailing in St Kilda on Friday night.

Webber, a two-time Grand Prix winner, said Australia had changed since he left for Europe, and he spent his time here dodging ridiculous speeding and parking rules.

"I think we've got to read an instruction book when we get out of bed - what we can do and what we can't do," he said.

"It's certainly changed since I left here - it ****es me off coming back here, to be honest. It's a great country but we've got to be responsible for our actions, and it's certainly a bloody nanny state when it comes to what we can do."

Tim Wilson, of the Institute of Public Affairs, agreed, saying: "If state and federal governments get their way, it's about to get a lot worse.

"The Federal Government has plans to increase taxes on what people can do, to try and tell people what they should be eating, drinking, and smoking.

"There's even talk about the need to introduce exercise classes during work hours.

"The encroaching nanny state is just going to get worse and worse and worse," he said.

"It's about time that governments pulled their heads in and realised that we should have a bit of choice and a bit of responsibility in our lives."

Mr Wilson said the response to inner-city violence was another example: "Everyone is being penalised for the behaviour of a couple of d---heads."

I agree with him and thank god someone who gets media attention has finally come out and said it. I don't particularly agree with what Hamilton did but still.

As for Mr Holding's comments, I think the water minister should stick to water related issues......

gcg2503 · 29-03-2010, 09:57 AM

Wonder how long this thread will last before it heads south Russ?

:

RG · 29-03-2010, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Wonder how long this thread will last before it heads south Russ?

:

It would be nice to think that as adults we are capable of mature conversation on such a topic.

However I will be surprised if we make it to page 3 before it gets locked.

Surprise me people, I'd appreciate it if we could actually not let this degenerate into the usual bs that has been going on of late.

Redrum · 29-03-2010, 10:08 AM

I agree. We are over regulated and the current Government think they are better able to make life decisions about us then we are. I beg to differ.

But in relation to HAMILTON, that is a completely different issue.

fordv8! · 29-03-2010, 10:12 AM

it seems nowadays no one has any respect and wont take responsibility for there actions my 2cents worth

james22 · 29-03-2010, 10:18 AM

I gotta say I feel sorry for you people living in Vic. This kind of stuff would certainly put a bee in my bonnet.

And Exercise classes during work??? WTF lol

RG · 29-03-2010, 10:20 AM

Now Mr Lay has commented;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herald Sun

This morning, Deputy Commissioner Ken Lay today said he would welcome Mark Webber fronting a road safety campaign after his attack on the road laws, prompted by Victoria Police nabbing fellow F1 racer Lewis Hamilton for hooning.

And Mr Lay said today that Webber’s comments were “not helpful” and had undermined the state’s hard-fought road safety message amid weekend carnage in which five people died on our roads, and Victoria appeared to be on the way to recording its worst road toll in five years.

He said the champion driver needed to take responsibility for the road safety message.

“I make no apologies for our aggressive approach, there’s probably a few Lewis Hamilton and Mark Webber fans who are alive because of our approach,” Mr Lay told 3AW Radio’s Neil Mitchell program today.

“I think Mark needs to take responsibility for the road safety message. I would much prefer that he kept the racing on the racetrack,” he said.

Mr Lay said he would “like to have a chat” with both drivers about how they could support the state’s attempt to reduce the road toll.

Hamilton and Webber had the chance to “really influence the way young people drive”, he said.

Ken Lay really needs to have someone write up scripts for him before he faces any media, he sounds like a fool. Mark Webber made the comments as a general observation on everything, Ken Lay takes one aspect and runs with it. As for the "I would much prefer that he kept the racing on the racetrack" comment, WTF? It was Lewis Hamilton that got done, not Webber.

I too however would like to see Hamilton and Webber get together and "have a chat" with Ken Lay about how to reduce the road toll. For some reason I think they would be of the opinion that driver education is far better than draconian laws.

Fair enough Ken Lay is only trying to do the best job he can, I respect that, it's just the way he is going about it really is alienating even Mr average Joe Blow on the street.

RG · 29-03-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james22

I gotta say I feel sorry for you people living in Vic. This kind of stuff would certainly put a bee in my bonnet.

And Exercise classes during work??? WTF lol

I agree with that, actually I go for a run at lunch time anyway and it's busy enough as it is!

gcg2503 · 29-03-2010, 10:22 AM

The fact that Webber has leveraged his statement that we are "over-regualted" off the Hamilton hoon incident gives no strength to his argument. I read the MW article, what are the other rules and regulations he is referring to I wonder. It seems he is branding us a nanny state simply in relation to the hoon laws. I would be curious to see what other rules are concerning him.

I have no qualms for the police doing what they did impounding Hamiltons car.

I couldnt care less if God himself came down and did perfectly executed gutter to gutter fishtails in a Brabus powered V12 E Class - I would expect the same outcome.

4Vman · 29-03-2010, 10:24 AM

Webber has been absolutely slammed for his comments on radio this morning...

RRM · 29-03-2010, 10:27 AM

I thought having speeding rules was pretty sensible.

I'm sorry to hear Webber feels aggrieved about spending his time "dodging ridiculous speeding and parking rules." Surely those Pinko cops should realize the laws of the land don't apply to him?

RG · 29-03-2010, 10:33 AM

No doubt that some of the laws in place are there for very good reason. Dropping a burnout on the street is silly and if I would get done for it then so should Hamilton, Ken Lay, Simon Overland and the Homer Simpson.

Parking rules are silly though, some of the things VicRoads and the councils come up with are so bad they're funny. Profitable too!

The comment "I think we've got to read an instruction book when we get out of bed - what we can do and what we can't do" says that he means more than just road laws. It seems to me that it was a broad statement.

gcg2503 · 29-03-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

The comment "I think we've got to read an instruction book when we get out of bed - what we can do and what we can't do" says that he means more than just road laws. It seems to me that it was a broad statement.

i understand that he means more than road laws but he hasnt validated it!

Thing is, I havent read anywhere what other rules or regulations are causing him to have this view.

From where I am sitting, he has just made a blanket "nanny state" call off the back of VicPol treatment of Lewis Hamilton esq

RG · 29-03-2010, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcg2503

i understand that he means more than road laws but he hasnt validated it!

Thing is, I havent read anywhere what other rules or regulations are causing him to have this view.

From where I am sitting, he has just made a blanket "nanny state" call off the back of VicPol treatment of Lewis Hamilton esq

I see your point, quite easy to read it either way isn't it.

Hopefully he comes out and clarifies what it is he was trying to say.

4Vman · 29-03-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcg2503

i understand that he means more than road laws but he hasnt validated it!

Thing is, I havent read anywhere what other rules or regulations are causing him to have this view.

From where I am sitting, he has just made a blanket "nanny state" call off the back of VicPol treatment of Lewis Hamilton esq

That's how the media have taken it too... and they're having a field day at his expense...
I think you'll find Webber will go into damage control and "clarify" his comments.

Fev · 29-03-2010, 10:45 AM

I completely agree with him and i'd love to see a discussion about Australian road rules, not just state road rules out in the open with REAL drivers, not pompous politicians who think they know best when clearly their solutions are having an adverse effect on our country as a whole. If Ken Lay did get that discussion with Webber what makes Ken think he's gonna like what he has to say? I agree with Russ that the first comment Webber would make would be increase driver education. In fact that should be the ONLY solution to the problems we face every day on our roads.

There will come a time soon when people will stop just resenting our government, but the country itself as well and i don't want to see that happen because of some know-it-all-know-nothing douche bags in parliament.

RedHotGT · 29-03-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Webber has been absolutely slammed for his comments on radio this morning...

Yep... was trying to get thru on the way into work... give Neil Mitchell and Ken Lay a piece of my mind...

:
Mark Webber has basically stated things that we've all thought before...

Ken Lay said something about the direct link between speed and deaths (and I agree 100%)... but I'd like him to research the statistics from how many people have been killed by doing a 'stand still burnout'... or even a donut...

A burnout (line locker, brakey, call it what you will) is a LOW VELOCITY loss of traction, and yes it is 'the act of a hoon' and is completely different to speeding (like that death over the weekend 160km/h in an 80km/h zone)...

You can't link the two together... Burnouts and Speeding are completely different things...

YES - Lewis Hamilton shouldn't have broken traction leaving the GP track... of course the Police would have needed to pull him over if they saw it happen... And yes, by our laws car is impounded and he receives a fine...
Will this event have any long term effect on Lewis in any way shape or form? No...

:

Hopefully this thread doesn't turn to mush...

gtxb67 · 29-03-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loftie

You can't link the two together... Burnouts and Speeding are completely different things...

you can link the two together very easily. the average person that enjoys wasting tyres doing burnouts/donuts, generally drives in a way that is considered hoon like as well. not everyone, but the younger brigade certainly. i appreciate that some people might leave a hot rod/car show, drop a burnout and then drive serenely home (maybe like lewis was going to), but if anyone tries telling us that the people who lay the status lines outside mcdonalds and most local streets do not drive like idiots at other times, then they are as mistaken as our governments in apportioning blame for road trauma

and as a side note, i live in victoria have driven an xb coupe for almost 23 years and never had a problem, neither 23 years ago or lately with our nanny state laws. it seems that if you have respect for the law then the law has respect for you

XDV800 · 29-03-2010, 11:00 AM

He was sayin what I've been thinking.
+1 Mark Webber.
(even though he doesn't actually live in this country)

**Bluepower** · 29-03-2010, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordv8!

it seems nowadays no one has any respect and wont take responsibility for there actions my 2cents worth

good post

SB076 · 29-03-2010, 11:11 AM

I have to agree with Mark - we are a nanny state
No longer can we do 100 on a freeway (in Vic heading south from the tunnel on the M1 we have 4 lanes but an 80k limit pretty much all the way to Toorak Rd) Our speed limits are being reduced plus we now have 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100, and 110 zones and IMHO this has had no affect on the road toll (I beleive any reduction is as a result of additioanl safety measures being introduced to cars such as ABS, ESC, better crumple zones etc)

Our governments seem intent on bringing in new law after new law (such as hoon laws - which I might add dont worry me - but what is the point? We already had laws that covered reckless driving and inporoper use of motor vehicles) Why dont we simply enforce them?

Now the government is looking at bringing laws in to keep trucks out of the right hand lane - we already have a law that states keep left unless overtaking, if that law is enforced there is no need for an additional law.

We have far too many beuracrats in this country and to justify their existance they keep coming up with rubbish and as such we have become a nanny state.

All Mark has done is say it as it is and offend the beuracrats.

RedHotGT · 29-03-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtxb67

you can link the two together very easily. the average person that enjoys wasting tyres doing burnouts/donuts, generally drives in a way that is considered hoon like as well. not everyone, but the younger brigade certainly. i appreciate that some people might leave a hot rod/car show, drop a burnout and then drive serenely home (maybe like lewis was going to), but if anyone tries telling us that the people who lay the status lines outside mcdonalds and most local streets do not drive like idiots at other times, then they are as mistaken as our governments in apportioning blame for road trauma

Sorry - perhaps i didn't make my point clear...

I agree 100% with what you say above... its more than likely that someone who does burnouts will speed and drive like a hoon elsewhere...
But someone who speeds may not do burnouts...

So what I'm saying (or trying to say I guess) every kid who winds up around a powerpole from doing double the speedlimit, isn't always the kid that has been leaving black marks in your street...

Scott · 29-03-2010, 11:19 AM

We truly are stuck in the middle of a battle between a Nanny State and Snivel Libertarian Rule. The voice of the masses is not heard by either end of the spectrum and as a result the masses are forced to live by the codes of extremists at either end.

I agree with Webber in principle, Australia is running as fast as it possibly can from the things about it that made it a great place to live. We are heading toward being a faceless, grey limbo land that has lost any sense of life and vibrancy.

What are we actually heading toward? What is the strategic goal/objective that our Governments want to achieve? Is it that one day, we wake up, perfectly manicure ourselves and our plain neutral toned suit, log into livinglife.gov.au, get our MO for the day and carry it out without question? Feels like it.

GK · 29-03-2010, 11:21 AM

Webber unlike us, has the benefit of coming into our country after a number of years elsewhere, to notice the general feel of a place.

We on the other hand, have had rule after rule after rule after rule (I'm sure you get the point LOL!) thrust upon us, over many years, and I suspect that such things have crept up on us, and we perhaps don't truly realise the state (pardon the pun) of our over regulation.

GK

uranium_death · 29-03-2010, 11:33 AM

The government has had to take the stance they have taken because the courts have rewarded stupidity for too long and as a result, we have to have guidelines on how to blow our noses.

This whole police uniform debate is a waste of time. Makes no difference what they wear. The courts took away police power years ago, and Overland is more interested in marching in the Mardi Gras (which I have no problem with!) rather than look after his own force...

You give police their power back and the right to show people what a baton to the head look likes, people will behave.
People know they can get away with a lot, so they'll push the boundaries, and the courts yield and keep lowering the bar to the point that people no longer have to even jump over it. They simply walk over it.

ELGT4me · 29-03-2010, 11:34 AM

Excuse my ignorance, didn't one of Victoria's top cops get busted for speeding?What was the outcome of that? :monkes:

**cs123** · 29-03-2010, 11:40 AM

Society gets the government it deserves. ie We are all to blame for the nanny state we live in.

It is up to us to voice our displeasure at what is happening and follow that up at the ballot box

4Vman · 29-03-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

Webber unlike us, has the benefit of coming into our country after a number of years elsewhere, to notice the general feel of a place.

We on the other hand, have had rule after rule after rule after rule (I'm sure you get the point LOL!) thrust upon us, over many years, and I suspect that such things have crept up on us, and we perhaps don't truly realise the state (pardon the pun) of our over regulation.

GK

Webber, unlike most of is also lives in an insulated world where everything he wants is only a phone call away and gets treated like royalty.

Maybe he needs to spend a bit of time in the real world in his own country living a normal life before he throws rocks....

That said his comments about "nanny state" are IMO probably pretty accurate if applied the right way to the right issues, but in the context of where he threw them were ill directed and poorly timed....

csv8 · 29-03-2010, 11:43 AM

Mark. I aggree with you too. QLD is just as bad and getting worse by the week

pauljh74 · 29-03-2010, 11:44 AM

The 3km/h tolerance on speed cameras was probably his main target regarding speed laws. Can Mr Lay honestly tell us having banks of cameras on straight, smooth motorways that haven't seen a fatality not caused by drugs/alcohol/fatigue has more to do with road safety than revenue raising? The recent works on the M1 - from before Burke rd into the city the limit is now 80 km/h. How can they upgrade the road yet lower the speed limit in the areas where there are no roadworks happening?