Will the Holden brand survive?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Holden are in a bit of trouble. To justify the expense of the RHD cars from overseas they had a quota presented to GM that they must fulfill to sell. For example each month they must take on 1800 Astras.

If they don't meet that quota then GM can issue a "fine" to them, not anything insignificant either. Many dealers are now overloaded with stock to get rid of, hence there are some deals happening on particular cars.
One of the biggest stuff ups was ordering Astra sedans.

1800 Astra's?

They are barely selling a third of that.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

1800 Astra's?

They are barely selling a third of that.

true, it was just in example.

[lra]

Originally Posted by Wretched

If they don't meet that quota then GM can issue a "fine" to them, not anything insignificant either. .

If that is the case, then GM have found another way of making money from not making cars, in lieu of taking Govt handouts to keep less than expected profitable factories operating.

Not long ago, they threatened to pull out of Korea. Result, Korean Govt tipped in more money in subsidies to Daewoo/GM Korea/Whatever.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by lra

If that is the case, then GM have found another way of making money from not making cars, in lieu of taking Govt handouts to keep less than expected profitable factories operating.

Not long ago, they threatened to pull out of Korea. Result, Korean Govt tipped in more money in subsidies to Daewoo/GM Korea/Whatever.

If true, then they are not making money. They own Holden.

This is so sad. I have a special place in my heart for “Australia’s Holden”.

Torana GTR

Monaro GTS

Commodore GTS

What we have now is a shadow of that legacy.

Sad, but I think The Hokden Brand is on borrowed time.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I can't believe this . I STILL have yet to see a ZB Commodore on the road after all this time. Not one . Today though as I walked up to the servo after work to collect my old 1984 Honda Accord from a service that I bought 18 months ago to cart the muttleys around in and save the Falcons from short running crap I had a look at a parked white Dodge Ram .

Didn't look too bad at all. I agree that maybe Ford should consider the possibility of the modern F Trucks here at some stage especially if the 2 litre bi turbo Ranger Raptor doesn't sell too well over time .

In the meantime I keep an eye out for seeing a ZB Commodore in the metal ,SOMEWHERE..

I am seeing a couple a day.Couple of wagons,sedans as well.(& one on our local Ford dealers used car lot!(He also happens to be a Holden dealer on the other side of town as well,took over the business from an existing dealer.)Cheers

[kevino]

Seeing 2/3 a day round South East qld. Sighted a VXR /white and RS /green both looked good.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by kevino

Seeing 2/3 a day round South East qld. Sighted a VXR /white and RS /green both looked good.

Conversely I'm spotting a surprising amount of Mustangs . A couple of locally owned ones too..and there's a brand new Ranger Wildtrack on the town now also .

Just today , a gorgeous white Mustang GT at the pub .

Genuinely love to have a proper bo peep at a ZB Commodore . No doubt a capable car and probably deserves more credit than is given mainly on the back of low sales . Will keep anticipating a good view of one eventually . As a fully paid up member and have my vehicles insured through RACT I regularly read the magazine and car reviews . This is their take on the ZB ..Not a bad jigger at all .

http://www.ract.com.au/zb-holden-commodore ..

[roddy1960]

Does this float anybody's boat and buy a GM product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqtLwOgubo

Thoughts please..

[hackney]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Does this float anybody's boat and buy a GM product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqtLwOgubo

Thoughts please..

I like these.Think they will do reasonably well for Holden.(& they really need to atm) I would consider if I was in the market.Cheers

[jpd80]

I don’t think the turbo four is a good fit for Commodore
Maybe replace it with FWD V6 as a base model for buyers
not that interested in towing or performance, just a V6.

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Does this float anybody's boat and buy a GM product

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqtLwOgubo

Thoughts please..

I like it

[davenl5l]

They are selling well so far

[stefcio007]

What about GM in general? Things don't look good. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/general-m...hawa-1.4191946

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by stefcio007

What about GM in general? Things don't look good. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/general-m...hawa-1.4191946

Not just GM
[IMG][/IMG]

[lra]

Originally Posted by stefcio007

What about GM in general? Things don't look good. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/general-m...hawa-1.4191946

Industrial blackmail ? Obviously the Canadian govt is not subsidising GM enough. GM's income lately seems to depend on govt handouts. Not long ago they threatened to close a South Korean plant, saved by a govt investment.

[Syndrome]

In true capitalism bad companies should be allowed to fail. Better or new companies then fill the void.

[b0son]

In true capitalism, the company is allowed to replace workers with those willing to work for less. Double-edged sword.

[Sprint XR8]

Holden safe from GM cutbacks

GENERAL Motors has announced it will axe around 15,000 jobs worldwide – or 15 per cent of its global salaried workforce, including 25 per cent of its senior executives – but Holden and its Australian-based design and engineering operations remain safe from the job cuts.

A Holden spokesman has told GoAuto that the latest cutbacks would not impact its Australian workforce of around 1250 employees.

The company went through a restructure earlier this year in which 60 staff members, mainly from its Port Melbourne headquarters, were made redundant.

In August, GM also threw a lifeline to its Australian R&D operations, announcing plans to recruit an extra 150 engineers to create a 500-strong local team – including designers – that will become a key unit of GM’s Advanced Vehicle Development division working on cutting-edge technologies such as autonomous and electric vehicles.

Holden says these plans remain in place, despite the wide-ranging decisions taken in Detroit that will now see its global product development operations further “compressed” and major cutbacks made at production facilities in North America and elsewhere.

In a statement, Holden said: “While the vast majority of steps announced overnight apply directly to North American operations, GM Holden continues to support GM’s global business objective by implementing its strategy to operate a lean national sales company focused on strengthening the Holden brand and growing sales.

“These announcements are not related to Holden’s product portfolio which remains unchanged and is the best and most comprehensive in our history.

“Holden’s local engineering and design capability was further strengthened earlier this year with investments at the Lang Lang proving ground and in Advanced Vehicle Development.”

In addition to the employee reduction, GM is preparing to ‘unallocate’ three vehicle assembly plants in North America – one in Canada (Oshawa, Ontario) and two in the US (Detroit-Hamtramck, Michigan, and Lordstown, Ohio) – as well as two propulsion plants in Baltimore, Maryland, and Warren, Michigan.

The auto giant will also close two more plants outside North America by the end of 2019, while its assembly facility in Gunsan, South Korea, was shuttered in February this year.

The affected vehicles at the North American plants include the Cadillac XTS and CT6, Chevrolet Impala, Cruze and Volt and the Buick LaCrosse.

The Cadillac and Buick models will continue to be built in China, casting doubt over the future of the Chevy models, while there is no word yet on whether GM will maintain the affected North American facilities to produce different models.

The workforce at these sites runs to about 6700 employees.

GM chief executive Mary Barra said the decision will put the US car-maker in a better position for the future.

“The actions we are taking today continue our transformation to be highly agile, resilient and profitable, while giving us the flexibility to invest in the future,” she said.

“We recognise the need to stay in front of changing market conditions and customer preferences to position our company for long-term success.

“These actions will increase the long-term profit and cash generation potential of the company and improve resilience through the cycle.”

By the end of 2020, GM is projecting a freed-up cashflow of $US6 billion ($A8.31 billion), along with $U4.5 billion ($A6.24 billion) in cost reductions and a $US1.5 billion ($A2.08 billion) lower capital expenditure.

Some of these funds will be redirected as “resources allocated to electric and autonomous vehicle programs will double in the next two years”, according to GM, while the company will also accelerate the development of next-generation battery technology.

Component sharing and expanded use of virtual tools will further reduce costs and lower development times respectively, with GM predicting that by the turn of the decade, 75 per cent of its global sales will derive from just five vehicle platforms.

GM’s announcement has been met with wide-ranging criticism, led by US president Donald Trump who told overseas reporters that the auto-maker should replace the slow-selling Cruze built at Lordstown with a more popular model.

“Their car (Chevrolet Cruze) is not selling well,” he said. “So they’ll put something else – I have no doubt that, in a not-too-distant future, they’ll put something else. They better put something else in.”

According to other reports, Mr Trump met with Ms Barra last weekend before GM’s announcement and said he was “very tough” on the decision to wind down five North American facilities.

“I spoke with her (Ms Barra) when I heard they were closing and I said, ‘You know, this country done a lot for General Motors’,” he said.

“You know, the United States saved General Motors, and for her to take that company out of Ohio is not good.”

United Automobile Workers vice-president Terry Ditties echoed Mr Trump’s sentiment, saying: “This callous decision by GM to reduce or cease operations in American plants, while opening or increasing production in Mexico and China plants for sales to American consumers, is, in its implementation, profoundly damaging to our American workforce.

“GM’s production decisions … puts profits before the working families of this country whose personal sacrifices stood with GM during those dark days. These decisions are a slap in the face to the memory and recall of that historical American made bailout,” he said.

Meanwhile, Canadian president Justin Trudeau expressed his “deep disappointment” of the decision via Twitter.

“GM workers have been part of the heart and soul of Oshawa for generations – and we’ll do everything we can to help the families affected by this news get back on their feet,” he said.

“Yesterday, I spoke with GM’s Mary Barra to express my deep disappointment in the closure.”

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/holde...-27/76627.html

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Sprint XR8

Holden safe from GM cutbacks

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/holde...-27/76627.html

They got not much left to cut!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

They got not much left to cut!

Except BS

[Sprintey]

Really interesting stuff. Yes you could say GM is trying to cut its footprint as sales lessen - it's been a 10 year bull run in the US, which is a long time for that to endure, historically 7 years or so is stretching it.

But also, it is going to be using the billions of saving to develop electric/autonomous. We've touched on this in other threads, but we have the executives basically betting the farm on this technology and anticipating a phase shift in the auto industry. If they were basing decisions on current sales, electric makes up a small percentage, they would switch over more organically as the market decides. But it seems a headlong rush.

Probably time to post the futurist, Tony Seba's lecture again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b3ttqYDwF0

If what he predicts comes true, the whole auto industry is going to be radically different in 5 to 10 years, and this is just the beginning

[Sprintey]

Reflecting on this, maybe the execs are responding to legislation they know is coming? That could explain the rush into this technology.

In that case, it will be policy makers determining the future of the auto industry (and up to a 70% reduction of it) - rather than the market. A legislated destruction.

If anyone has read Ayn Rand's book "Atlas Shrugged", things don't turn out well when the politicians start picking favourites or directions for the economy.

[Windsor220]

With emissions forever being tightened the move to electric will be forced as the IC engine can only be modified so much. It's not a case of the market deciding.

[stefcio007]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

With emissions forever being tightened the move to electric will be forced as the IC engine can only be modified so much. It's not a case of the market deciding.

True, I feel like the 10 speed transmission and small turbo boosted engines are really the last hurrah of the combustion engine.

What next? It probably won’t be worth developing anything after that, the range issue is becoming a non-issue. Once the charging obstacle gets solved, in terms of locations to charge and charging speed, that will be it.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by stefcio007

True, I feel like the 10 speed transmission and small turbo boosted engines are really the last hurrah of the combustion engine.

What next? It probably won’t be worth developing anything after that, the range issue is becoming a non-issue. Once the charging obstacle gets solved, in terms of locations to charge and charging speed, that will be it.

On fossil fuel reserves what do you make of this and what impact if any would electric/hybrid power have on this number do you think .This was written in 2014 and since then I think they've found potentially a massive reserve in the Gulf of Mexico or thereabouts ..

https://jalopnik.com/bp-says-the-wor...uld-1602354842 ..

[xeeclipse]

The planet is baked irrespective whether we pull the handbrake on oil production now or in 20 years!! Who's putting their hand up for the next MAD MAX sequel??

Who knows?? One of us might still have enough fuel to get down the CALDER beyond the THUNDERDOME? :P

[Sprintey]

It would be quite funny to see Lord Humungous and his kinky biker crew fighting over Li batteries rather than fuel...

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by stefcio007

True, I feel like the 10 speed transmission and small turbo boosted engines are really the last hurrah of the combustion engine.

What next? It probably won’t be worth developing anything after that, the range issue is becoming a non-issue. Once the charging obstacle gets solved, in terms of locations to charge and charging speed, that will be it.

Have you seen what Mazda is doing with the SyActiv-X and beyond? It's like a merging of petrol and diesel engines. They do a 30% efficiency improvement with each generation. Their execs point out that they look at well to wheel emissions, and they argue these motors are cleaner than most electric.

There's future in ICE if we switch this way and use biofuels, including algal based.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by xeeclipse

The planet is baked irrespective whether we pull the handbrake on oil production now or in 20 years!!

yeah, about that...

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2018/...arrives-early/

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/w...15-p4zrkw.html

https://www.9news.com.au/2018/09/16/...ustralia-south

https://www.snow-forecast.com/whiter...sort-in-japan/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8c0a59d2caf0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_S...bian_snowstorm

Edit: here's the Kosciuszko snow cam, a couple of nice drifts still present in December, Santa will feel at home:

https://www.ski.com.au/snowcams/aust...szkotrack.html

[Terror_Tree]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

It would be quite funny to see Lord Humungous and his kinky biker crew fighting over Li batteries rather than fuel...

And solar panels