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Old 14-05-2018, 12:26 PM   #1
Bevsta007
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Default Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tra...s-ng-s-1858452
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Old 14-05-2018, 12:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

I'm with you, can't stand the 'lil Shortman.
But this does sound like a good idea on the surface.
The challenge will be how the smaller independent workshops get this information and what equipment they will need to purchase from the Auto giants in order to access/use it.
Some of the bigger chains like Auto Masters and Ultra Tune may already have it to an extent.
Its always been a fast changing industry, but recently and into the future it will be even more-so.
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Old 14-05-2018, 12:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

And just how is Bill going to achieve this ?
It is hard enough getting trained dealer mechanics to do repair work satisfactorily in newer hitech cars, how is a local mech going to keep up to speed with multiple makes.

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Old 14-05-2018, 12:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Originally Posted by Bevsta007 View Post
Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tra...s-ng-s-1858452
Thanks for posting this. I heard about it yesterday on the Abc.

This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.

Tractors, headers, sprayers etc have moved to electronic control just as rapidly as their road going brethren. With one big difference. The manufacturers have been allowed to "lock down" the electronics with no ability to get information on any of it.
Now if we have a breakdown we are pretty much obliged to call a dealer network mechanic onto the property. Strictly speaking we can't touch any equipment anymore and servicing yourself has pretty much gone out the window.

A year ago we lost a pto on a tractor, it spent the next 6 months in the shed as a simple problem like that couldn't be fixed.

People are fighting to have these restrictions removed and it's a nasty fight. Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.

I suggest everyone contact their mp to register their displeasure. A phone call should suffice.
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Old 14-05-2018, 02:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.
Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.
A good point that non-farmers would be aware of or understand.
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Old 15-05-2018, 03:23 PM   #6
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
Thanks for posting this. I heard about it yesterday on the Abc.

This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.

Tractors, headers, sprayers etc have moved to electronic control just as rapidly as their road going brethren. With one big difference. The manufacturers have been allowed to "lock down" the electronics with no ability to get information on any of it.
Now if we have a breakdown we are pretty much obliged to call a dealer network mechanic onto the property. Strictly speaking we can't touch any equipment anymore and servicing yourself has pretty much gone out the window.

A year ago we lost a pto on a tractor, it spent the next 6 months in the shed as a simple problem like that couldn't be fixed.

People are fighting to have these restrictions removed and it's a nasty fight. Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.

I suggest everyone contact their mp to register their displeasure. A phone call should suffice.
Can you get away with using older, non "black boxed" machinery? Last time I did harvest was many years ago and it was for the most mechanical with a shed load of belts and pulleys. Why pay millions for equipment if you essentially don't have the liberty to fix it?
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Old 15-05-2018, 04:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

10,000 hours is the lifespan we usually budget for.

You can keep things going for a while with engine rebuilds and such but once frames start cracking that's it.

We recently retired 2 versatile 1050's for that reason. Old girls had been toiling since the mid 80's so can't complain.
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Old 16-05-2018, 03:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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10,000 hours is the lifespan we usually budget for.

You can keep things going for a while with engine rebuilds and such but once frames start cracking that's it.

We recently retired 2 versatile 1050's for that reason. Old girls had been toiling since the mid 80's so can't complain.
Fair enough MB. There is always also the Aussie ingenuity approach, you end up with huge custom equipment like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-ZnkeXI7c

Note, its basically 1940s level of mechanical tech, and don't it go!
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Old 18-05-2018, 09:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
Thanks for posting this. I heard about it yesterday on the Abc.

This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.

Tractors, headers, sprayers etc have moved to electronic control just as rapidly as their road going brethren. With one big difference. The manufacturers have been allowed to "lock down" the electronics with no ability to get information on any of it.
Now if we have a breakdown we are pretty much obliged to call a dealer network mechanic onto the property. Strictly speaking we can't touch any equipment anymore and servicing yourself has pretty much gone out the window.

A year ago we lost a pto on a tractor, it spent the next 6 months in the shed as a simple problem like that couldn't be fixed.

People are fighting to have these restrictions removed and it's a nasty fight. Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.

I suggest everyone contact their mp to register their displeasure. A phone call should suffice.
Interesting video about what is going on in Nebraska. Check out LB67

"It's just the diagnostics folks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8JCh0owT4w
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Old 14-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #10
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

A good practical idea imo, nothing wrong with the idea for now.

In the future with ev's though things might be different because of the auto makers insistence on full protection of their IP (intellectual property) in every sense of the word ie: even down to the local mechanic tampering with the ecu which may be against IP laws afaik etc.

cheers, Maka
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Old 14-05-2018, 01:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
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Old 14-05-2018, 02:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
Regular roadworthy's should be carried out by a designated testing station, not linked to any mechanical workshop just like they do in New Zealand.

Its a quick process done by bookings, without corruption.

Unfortunately some mechanics would always find faults, and ruin the industries reputation
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Old 16-05-2018, 05:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Regular roadworthy's should be carried out by a designated testing station, not linked to any mechanical workshop just like they do in New Zealand.

Its a quick process done by bookings, without corruption.

Unfortunately some mechanics would always find faults, and ruin the industries reputation
VTNZ is run by Govt, But Wof (Warrant of fitness) is also given by private approved workshops that also do mechanical repairs. Lenght of Wof can be from 6 months to 3 years depending on first registration of car. Info can be found at NZ transport Agency...
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Old 17-05-2018, 10:04 AM   #14
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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VTNZ is run by Govt, But Wof (Warrant of fitness) is also given by private approved workshops that also do mechanical repairs. Lenght of Wof can be from 6 months to 3 years depending on first registration of car. Info can be found at NZ transport Agency...
Yes I know, but you'd be a fool to use a private one, unless you know them personally.
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Old 17-05-2018, 12:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Yes I know, but you'd be a fool to use a private one, unless you know them personally.
Not really. VTNZ staff are failed mechanics a lot of them with a chip on their shoulder who are unreasonable and unrealistic about what is actually buggered. Someone with not a lot of money with an old car from the 1990s wouldn’t want to go there as they’d defect it so much it wouldn’t be worth repairing leaving them between a rock and a hard place.
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Old 14-05-2018, 04:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
How are those mechanics going to do a roadworthy when they have no access?
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Old 14-05-2018, 05:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
We have this in NSW, every vehicle over 5 years old needs a roadworthy pink slip come annual registration time!!
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Old 14-05-2018, 06:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

The united states works like that the independents buy the right to log into the oem network and obtain all info required I believe its been like this for a long time .
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Old 14-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #19
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The united states works like that the independents buy the right to log into the oem network and obtain all info required I believe its been like this for a long time .
Ford Australia have this already with the Motorcraft Service website where you pay for a subscription to workshop manuals etc, but not sure about the other manufacturers. Although I think the independents want it for free!!
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Old 14-05-2018, 04:55 PM   #20
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I don't want to turn this into a political slanging match, but this was not ever Bill Shorten's idea or Labor Party policy.

The AAAA along with a few other automotive groups, have been pushing this one for years. They have had a few wins lately but the auto manufacturers are a strong lobby group.

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Old 15-05-2018, 04:44 PM   #21
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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I don't want to turn this into a political slanging match, but this was not ever Bill Shorten's idea or Labor Party policy.

The AAAA along with a few other automotive groups, have been pushing this one for years. They have had a few wins lately but the auto manufacturers are a strong lobby group.

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Old 15-05-2018, 05:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Safety certs should be waived on vehicles less than four years / 80,000 km
to encourage those owners to keep trading up to newer vehicles.
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Old 15-05-2018, 06:06 PM   #23
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Safety certs should be waived on vehicles less than four years / 80,000 km
to encourage those owners to keep trading up to newer vehicles.
Do you mean pink slips ? i.e. road worthy certificates.
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Old 15-05-2018, 06:57 PM   #24
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

I service a local government fleet in NSW.

Part of having a fleet is having an in house maintanance system that is much stronger than for the general public. Most money people tell me 5 years for car and 8 years for plant equipment.

Talking to other tradesmen doing the same with other fleets most companies are doing the same. This was the reason NSW went with a cost saving 5 years for the first inspection and an inspection when the car changes hand.

If the dealers don't supply service training and back up why would you buy there products--we sold off our ford fleet. now have D-MAX hilux and Subaru commodore[old] X trail.

Tractors often last us 5000 hours graders around 10000 hours or 16 years. after that the cost of operaton balloons.

I get a new hino soon-150 000Km 10 years with factory scan tool and prts books provided.
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Old 15-05-2018, 08:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

This link is from 2016, speaking about the same thing -

"The landmark deal that could help car owners and save local mechanic workshops from extinction"

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...2e7d1d34c58acd

cheers, Maka
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Old 16-05-2018, 01:10 AM   #26
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Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

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Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy
And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??

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Old 16-05-2018, 12:46 PM   #27
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And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??
Full on as always Daz,

What were taking about is making these resources available at a reasonable cost. no theft.

Without this 3rd party mechanics will be resigned to working on older vehicles, and will eventually close.
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Old 16-05-2018, 02:27 PM   #28
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And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??
I didn't know tightening an alternator belt was illegal ip theft.

Then again, Case IH seem to think so.
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Old 17-05-2018, 06:34 PM   #29
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Full on as always Daz,

What were taking about is making these resources available at a reasonable cost. no theft.
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I didn't know tightening an alternator belt was illegal ip theft.
Nothing to stop 3rd parties working on cars,
except obviously, and particularly with modern electronics, they lack the access to data and proprietary software that the OEM have.

Firstly, I seriously question why they should be compelled to hand over this information? It is the very definition of IP, and forcing a company to hand it over is theft.

And the bigger question, is how on earth you make this happen, and how you enforce it.
And where do you draw the line?
If after a few months of a new model, Ford comes up with a quicker way to replace the widget, are they obligated to immediately educate everyone in Australia??

And the problem is this. There are many hardworking and conscientious independent mechanics out there, but they are the least likely to benefit from this. What it would help is the parasites; the chains who claim to do "logbook servicing" but in fact charge a premium for nothing more than an oil change with substandard consumables.
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Old 18-05-2018, 08:42 PM   #30
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I didn't know tightening an alternator belt was illegal ip theft.

Then again, Case IH seem to think so.
Tesla is trying this **** too. so far, if you repair your own Tesla, Tesla corp won't honor the rest of the warranty or let your car use the supercharger stations. They are trying to get 3rd party repair made illegal, which sounds as moronic as you think.
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