The drug "Ice"

[buggerlugs]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...=1415428360566
Was talking to a Policeman in regional Victoria a month ago. He said 85% of their work now involves dealing with "Ice" issues................ Scary Stuff.....

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...=1415428360566
Was talking to a Policeman in regional Victoria a month ago. He said 85% of their work now involves dealing with "Ice" issues................ Scary Stuff.....

Been like that for a long time, not new.

[superyob]

The only way to stop this is for society to get rid of its moral paralysis and start hanging drug dealers...

[Bluehoon]

Scary is the understatement.
People use it in place of sleep and to deal with life, or escape...

Is the ice addiction any different to all the alcohol abuse..??

[Vincenzo]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Is the ice addiction any different to all the alcohol abuse..??

As a former Ambo / Paramedic of 15 years, I would rather deal with an alcoholic
than an Ice Addict.


Cheers Vincenzo

[STINKY NINJA]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Scary is the understatement.
People use it in place of sleep and to deal with life, or escape...

Is the ice addiction any different to all the alcohol abuse..??

Yes its different because its seen to not be socially acceptable by society, the government doesnt get to tax it and make their cut so they are dead against it...
Alcohol can ruin your life too it just takes longer.

[goo33]

If you have not yet been attacked by the bizarre, paranoid and extremely destructive and vexatious behaviour of the methamphetamines addict, you may think you've been lucky.

What most punters don't recognise is that the social cost arising from the meth addicts is unsustainable. They tie up every social institution from the police; social workers; mental health specialists; ambulances; Centrelink; rehab, the criminal justice system; schools; nurses. The list just goes on and on. There is no mechanism available to us to halt this. The social cost in time; people and money is astronomical.

It's about time we built a Prison in Australia like Angola in the US.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by goo33

If you have not yet been attacked by the bizarre, paranoid and extremely destructive and vexatious behaviour of the methamphetamines addict, you may think you've been lucky.

What most punters don't recognise is that the social cost arising from the meth addicts is unsustainable. They tie up every social institution from the police; social workers; mental health specialists; ambulances; Centrelink; rehab, the criminal justice system; schools; nurses. The list just goes on and on. There is no mechanism available to us to halt this. The social cost in time; people and money is astronomical.

It's about time we built a Prison in Australia like Angola in the US.

Maybe instead of spending tens of millions of $$$ to lock them up in some new fancy prison, maybe we go spending the money finding the root cause and fix that instead?

Maybe instead of being thrown in a 3x3m cell behind a locked door we can get to the bottom of the issue and turn their lives around and they can become productive people in society rather than throwing them into jail.

You can do it properly or you can spend more money hiding the problem, unfortunately we seem to spend more time and money trying to hide everything rather than deal with it properly in the first place.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Maybe instead of spending tens of millions of $$$ to lock them up in some new fancy prison, maybe we go spending the money finding the root cause and fix that instead?

Maybe instead of being thrown in a 3x3m cell behind a locked door we can get to the bottom of the issue and turn their lives around and they can become productive people in society rather than throwing them into jail.

You can do it properly or you can spend more money hiding the problem, unfortunately we seem to spend more time and money trying to hide everything rather than deal with it properly in the first place.

The root cause? The root cause is meth and it needs to be stopped - it is the black plague of our time......

[goo33]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Maybe instead of spending tens of millions of $$$ to lock them up in some new fancy prison

Any Meth Addict costs society/community (whatever)TWENTY TIMES what a heroin addict costs us.

Doubters can google that.

Any idea how much damage just one heroin addict can do in a night?

Angola is a prison farm, the size of a small country, and, far as I know, pays for itself.

I hope bleeding hearts get a meth lab next door. Then the niave tunes'll change.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Maybe instead of spending tens of millions of $$$ to lock them up in some new fancy prison, maybe we go spending the money finding the root cause and fix that instead.

The root cause is that it is a major income stream for organised crime.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by superyob

The only way to stop this is for society to get rid of its moral paralysis and start hanging drug dealers...

Yes...

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/swe...themovie1.html

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by superyob

The only way to stop this is for society to get rid of its moral paralysis and start hanging drug dealers...

You’ll only be executing the middle men down to the brain dead junkies who on sell it.

For the most, the main players who make billions are left to continue the trade by paying the gullible and desperate to take the fall by doing their bidding.

Capital punishment has never been a deterrent to murder, what it does do is force the perpetrators to kill victims ensuring there are no witnesses to put them on execution row.

Look at Mexico, the billions made by the drug trade has made life there worth nothing.

There is no denying drugs are the scourge of the modern world and given the billions of dollars countries like the USA throw at law enforcement to fight it, it shows the battle is almost impossible to win.

There are no laws that will ever fix this problem, it’s all about education from a very young age and treatment for those that fall into its net.

[STINKY NINJA]

Its a full on epidemic in perth,most call it crack here although its not like crack in the us.
Ive lost a few mates because they are crackheads, i just cant have people like that in my life,it turns normal people into ******* idiots in quick time!
Crackheads always think you are the one with the problem because you erase them from your life lol

[richo77]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

Its a full on epidemic in perth,most call it crack here although its not like crack in the us.
Ive lost a few mates because they are crackheads, i just cant have people like that in my life,it turns normal people into ******* idiots in quick time!
Crackheads always think you are the one with the problem because you erase them from your life lol

Epidemic in Perth? Please. Maybe in Armadale, Gosnells..

[cram_it_frog]

twice in my life I have become addicted to pain medication 20 years ago after spinal surgery and in those days you could walk into any GP and get any thing narcotic because you had spinal surgery,

It cost a marriage and and I lost every thing but did beat it in the end

Then 2nd time was last year

Today if you have a spinal fusion what they do is put a ceramic disk in and that allow some movement

but in my day they just fused the disk to bone on bone and 3 years ago after 20 y of little pain I was in agony and after exray,s they found I have got 6 huge tears in the disk above the fusion and nothing can be done at present

so I am on Methodone tablets and I started to feel the addiction kick in again it has taken 2 years but my dependance on Methdone has gone I only take one or two tablets a day less if possible

I am still in a lot of pain but I am learning to live with it, addiction of any kind is hard to kick and even walked away from the smoke 10 years ago after 40 of smoking

addiction of legal or non legal drugs is a major problem in society and it costs a fortune in lost work and time we need to try and stop it some way

there are brand new pain clinics with brand new ideas ie killing the nerve closest to the injury is used in Afganistan and that will soon be use in public hospitals reducing the need for narcotics

[cram_it_frog]

Armadale, Gosnells I grew up there 40 years ago but I guess places change

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by cram_it_frog

twice in my life I have become addicted to pain medication 20 years ago after spinal surgery and in those days you could walk into any GP and get any thing narcotic because you had spinal surgery,

It cost a marriage and and I lost every thing but did beat it in the end

Then 2nd time was last year

Today if you have a spinal fusion what they do is put a ceramic disk in and that allow some movement

but in my day they just fused the disk to bone on bone and 3 years ago after 20 y of little pain I was in agony and after exray,s they found I have got 6 huge tears in the disk above the fusion and nothing can be done at present

so I am on Methodone tablets and I started to feel the addiction kick in again it has taken 2 years but my dependance on Methdone has gone I only take one or two tablets a day less if possible

I am still in a lot of pain but I am learning to live with it, addiction of any kind is hard to kick and even walked away from the smoke 10 years ago after 40 of smoking

addiction of legal or non legal drugs is a major problem in society and it costs a fortune in lost work and time we need to try and stop it some way

there are brand new pain clinics with brand new ideas ie killing the nerve closest to the injury is used in Afganistan and that will soon be use in public hospitals reducing the need for narcotics

good posting - elephant in the room, although not often discussed is prescription drugs

[superyob]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

good posting - elephant in the room, although not often discussed is prescription drugs

Very small elephant though. How many people genuinely need pain relief as opposed to how many lives are ruined by drug use...

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by richo77

Epidemic in Perth? Please. Maybe in Armadale, Gosnells..

Maybe not an epidemic...but it is a serious problem. Plus the damage it is doing in regional communities is devastating.

Seen a few mates over the years nearly destroyed by meth, one fancied himself as some dealer kingpin, watched too many movies I think, I remember he bragged to me about him and another bloke smoked $5,000 worth of the stuff in one Saturday night, I said how can you comfortably boast about wasting that sort of money and your life on that? I remember once I went around his house and in his room he had an office desk and an office chair (remember the dealer kingpin dream) and he just casually pulled a house brick-sized block of meth out from his desk drawer and started scraping a small amount off it to smoke as I was sitting there, while he casually talked about something else. Mindboggling.

But it all catches up with you...I'm still surprised he didn't get raided by the Police, but he lost pretty much everything including his health and money because he was smoking too much of it and not selling enough so had huge debts, he's back on the straight and narrow now as far as I am aware, but not without some strong intervention from his family pretty much regulating every aspect of his life.

[cram_it_frog]

smoked $5,000 worth of the stuff in one Saturday night,

so true but the big question is how did he pay for it through legit or ilegal means

much of the theft is all country's in because of the need for quick easy cash but drug users

[cram_it_frog]

one question that all people want to know is with the knowledge that you will get hooked why do they start to take it

it is well known how dangerous this drug is and they still take it

[BradEL]

Originally Posted by cram_it_frog

one question that all people want to know is with the knowledge that you will get hooked why do they start to take it

it is well known how dangerous this drug is and they still take it

Peer pressure is what they call it

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by cram_it_frog

one question that all people want to know is with the knowledge that you will get hooked why do they start to take it

it is well known how dangerous this drug is and they still take it

My experience is 30 years old but the sister of my girlfriend at the time was a drug addict and prostitute.

The drugs came first, cheap and often. Then, once addicted, less and less so the second part could be introduced.

A normal family, a young girl who fell under the influence of someone she felt attracted to but who, in a calculated and determined fashion, got her to do what he wanted for his benefit.

Young adults are keen to experience what they can away from their parents' influence and sometimes they will become the victims of calculating predators.

Me, I was too scared to take drugs (and too busy drinking to worry about it). I never liked smoking so that pathway was not opened by me.

[56L]

Originally Posted by cram_it_frog

one question that all people want to know is with the knowledge that you will get hooked why do they start to take it

it is well known how dangerous this drug is and they still take it

Some people are easlily led,

When you think about it drugs like Ice have a terrible affect on a weak mind and thats one of the reasons they take it in the first place.

Strong characters dont take it in the first place,there the people drug dealers usually avoid

[Franco Cozzo]

I did a big spiel about drugs in the DM section a while back, I'll give you guys the quick lowdown of my opinion on "drugs".

Firstly when I went through high school from 2004-2009, there was absolutely no education on alcohol or "drugs". We did a few essays on the "alcopop tax" the Rudd government introduced in 2008 for English, but that was as far as it went. There was really no information or subject which covered tobacco, alcohol, drugs and their use in society or their effects etc.

If they had legalised, regulated and taxed the party drugs such as Marijuana and MDMA you could control it a little bit better and guarantee it hasn't been cut with any crap and maybe create an industry out of it to bring in some extra $$$ through regulation, licensing schemes and of course taxes.

When was the last time you saw someone who was stoned or on MDMA become aggressive and or hurt anyone?

I've seen plenty of incidents involving violent drunk people who abuse alcohol, there has been enough cases over the last 4 days alone of the Melbourne Cup Carnival where I work but it seems its socially acceptable to get totalled from alcohol.

Firstly they need to educate people about drugs a bit better, it seems most schools in Victoria just seem keen on teaching kids how to pass their NAPLAN tests so the school looks fantastic in the figures, rather than educating them on the outside world.

You cover Maths, English, trade subjects, PE, languages, various sciences but nothing on alcohol/drugs which are rather easy to obtain.

It should be mandatory to study the effects of various available drugs and their uses.

Then the Government needs to regulate it, so if people decide they do want to sample that they are getting clean stuff, not thats been cut with different chemicals to stretch out some profits and that they're not buying it from some douche in a nightclub, allow it to be handled by legitimate business.

The Government could do some form of licensing for companies to meet standards for the product, for example for a farmer to grow a crop of Marijuana or pharmaceutical company to make MDMA they would have to meet a particular set of standards.

With that licensing you'd need a new Government agency to enforce it, or extend the powers of another existing agency.

Now you need more people to work there - more jobs.

Taxing, well they could do something similar to alcohol and smokes, they could bring in some cash through licensing costs and then more $$$ through taxes on the end product on the shelf.

Controversial subject but we have to approach this with an open mind, I'm not saying we legalise stuff like Ice, Herroin and the hardcore stuff such as some of the methamphetamines but the Marijuana and MDMA (which I refer to as "party drugs") we could approach with an open mind, as really what we're doing now isn't working and there is an opportunity for the Government to make some more coin if they played their cards right.

The question is are we as a society ready to look at what is a taboo subject in a different light?

Alcohol has ruined many lives as well.

This is my 10 cents (my 2 cents is free).

Also just a random comment about methamphetamine users, have you ever worked with any before? You should see how quick they can work when they're on the gear, then how much it slows them down when they're off it, its like a night and day difference when you see a regular user when they're under the effects or just not using it on a particular day.

Some of the crew I used to work with used it.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I did a big spiel about drugs in the DM section a while back, I'll give you guys the quick lowdown of my opinion on "drugs".

Firstly when I went through high school from 2004-2009, there was absolutely no education on alcohol or "drugs". We did a few essays on the "alcopop tax" the Rudd government introduced in 2008 for English, but that was as far as it went. There was really no information or subject which covered tobacco, alcohol, drugs and their use in society or their effects etc.

If they had legalised, regulated and taxed the party drugs such as Marijuana and MDMA you could control it a little bit better and guarantee it hasn't been cut with any crap and maybe create an industry out of it to bring in some extra $$$ through regulation, licensing schemes and of course taxes.

When was the last time you saw someone who was stoned or on MDMA become aggressive and or hurt anyone?

I've seen plenty of incidents involving violent drunk people who abuse alcohol, there has been enough cases over the last 4 days alone of the Melbourne Cup Carnival where I work but it seems its socially acceptable to get totalled from alcohol.

Firstly they need to educate people about drugs a bit better, it seems most schools in Victoria just seem keen on teaching kids how to pass their NAPLAN tests so the school looks fantastic in the figures, rather than educating them on the outside world.

You cover Maths, English, trade subjects, PE, languages, various sciences but nothing on alcohol/drugs which are rather easy to obtain.

It should be mandatory to study the effects of various available drugs and their uses.

Then the Government needs to regulate it, so if people decide they do want to sample that they are getting clean stuff, not thats been cut with different chemicals to stretch out some profits and that they're not buying it from some douche in a nightclub, allow it to be handled by legitimate business.

The Government could do some form of licensing for companies to meet standards for the product, for example for a farmer to grow a crop of Marijuana or pharmaceutical company to make MDMA they would have to meet a particular set of standards.

With that licensing you'd need a new Government agency to enforce it, or extend the powers of another existing agency.

Now you need more people to work there - more jobs.

Taxing, well they could do something similar to alcohol and smokes, they could bring in some cash through licensing costs and then more $$$ through taxes on the end product on the shelf.

Controversial subject but we have to approach this with an open mind, I'm not saying we legalise stuff like Ice, Herroin and the hardcore stuff such as some of the methamphetamines but the Marijuana and MDMA (which I refer to as "party drugs") we could approach with an open mind, as really what we're doing now isn't working and there is an opportunity for the Government to make some more coin if they played their cards right.

The question is are we as a society ready to look at what is a taboo subject in a different light?

Alcohol has ruined many lives as well.

This is my 10 cents (my 2 cents is free).

Also just a random comment about methamphetamine users, have you ever worked with any before? You should see how quick they can work when they're on the gear, then how much it slows them down when they're off it, its like a night and day difference when you see a regular user when they're under the effects or just not using it on a particular day.

Some of the crew I used to work with used it.

It is true that alcohol has ruined many lives, but intake can be moderated by most people. With one hit of ice or other such drug, a person is off the planet.

Also, the modern day scourge of alcoholic violence has always been with us but not in the pandemic proportions afflicting society today. Back in the 80s most clubs shut at around 12 to 1 am and everyone went home to sleep it off. Now it seems the clubs are open 24 hours a day...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by superyob

It is true that alcohol has ruined many lives, but intake can be moderated by most people. With one hit of ice or other such drug, a person is off the planet.

Also, the modern day scourge of alcoholic violence has always been with us but not in the pandemic proportions afflicting society today. Back in the 80s most clubs shut at around 12 to 1 am and everyone went home to sleep it off. Now it seems the clubs are open 24 hours a day...

Melbourne only just gets started at 12AM really these days if you want a night out in that sort of environment.

Go for a spin through Melbourne in the early hours of the morning on a Friday/Saturday and see the amount of people getting about everywhere.

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

Harmless drugs such as cannabis....
Party drugs......

Spend a day with me as I work in the prison system and deal with the people with cannabis related problems.

Spend the next day with me when I take a close friend to their Oncology treatment. If you can't handle watching people desperately clinging to life come with me to Hamilton hospital and visit my childhood friend who talks to his fourth dimension heavenly angels. He will gladly chat to you in between regularly having his soiled nappies changed by burly male nurses. I'm in my mid fifties and so many people I grew up with are dealing with issues which can be traced back to their drug abuse when they were younger.

Sure abuse me here online and roll out your quack supporting evidence but those amongst who didn't have drugs in our lives are successful while most of the users are either dead, ill or have nothing.

I'm not going to abuse you because you have a different opinion and or experiences to me.

Have a look in the USA where they've had a massive war on drugs for how many years, and all of a sudden some of the states have started to legalise marijuana.

Interesting turn of events if you look at their anti-drug efforts over the years.

When you use drugs recreationally no worries, but when you need a hit to get up to go to work in the morning its already game over.

[cram_it_frog]

Australia has changed I can r ember the early days of light beer and the crap you coped if you brought it to a party or if you did not keep up with the boys and refusing a beer was almost a insult


Things change I lost my license for low dd charge for 3 months and in ten seconds later the magistrate gave it back to me so I could go to work 30 years ago and I did work 7 days a week with a construction comapny all over WA called cloughs

Try getting a temp license now you have to have your letter mothers mother mothers mum to sign the paper work on the day


look at the early part of the 18 th century when all the cocaine dens in china were legal and smoking and drinking any thing that got you high

look at doctors now providing medically sanctioned pot for cronic pain sufferers

come back to this post in 20 years and see what a different world it will be

[iCat]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Have a look in the USA where they've had a massive war on drugs for how many years, and all of a sudden some of the states have started to legalise marijuana.

Interesting turn of events if you look at their anti-drug efforts over the years.

Wouldn't be looking at the US for enlightenment. Their gun laws speak volumes in itself.