Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14-05-2018, 12:26 PM   #1
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,864
Default Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tra...s-ng-s-1858452
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 12:38 PM   #2
Pepscobra
Call me dirt... Joe Dirt
 
Pepscobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Back in Perth for good
Posts: 5,302
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

I'm with you, can't stand the 'lil Shortman.
But this does sound like a good idea on the surface.
The challenge will be how the smaller independent workshops get this information and what equipment they will need to purchase from the Auto giants in order to access/use it.
Some of the bigger chains like Auto Masters and Ultra Tune may already have it to an extent.
Its always been a fast changing industry, but recently and into the future it will be even more-so.
__________________
2007 BFII FPV Cobra Ute|Boss 302|6M|#23/100
Mods so far:
Billet Products Shifter|X-Force Exhaust|Herrod Oil Breathers|Whiteline Sway Bar|Tein SuperStreets|Kings FOR-303SL Rear Springs|Melling Oil Pump|Mace Manifold Spacers|Powerbond Underdrives|Pacemaker Headers|Ballistic Cats|XFT Custom Tune @ 308.3rwkw|DBA T3 Rotors|Ferodo Pads|Goodridge Braided Lines
Mods to come:
4.11 Diff Gears|Chromoly Tailshaft
I use & recommend:
Castrol|Motorcraft|Mainlube|Penrite


Check Out My Build Thread
Pepscobra is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 12:46 PM   #3
lra
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 866
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

And just how is Bill going to achieve this ?
It is hard enough getting trained dealer mechanics to do repair work satisfactorily in newer hitech cars, how is a local mech going to keep up to speed with multiple makes.

Last edited by GasoLane; 14-05-2018 at 01:48 PM.
lra is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
6 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 12:54 PM   #4
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,731
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevsta007 View Post
Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/tra...s-ng-s-1858452
Thanks for posting this. I heard about it yesterday on the Abc.

This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.

Tractors, headers, sprayers etc have moved to electronic control just as rapidly as their road going brethren. With one big difference. The manufacturers have been allowed to "lock down" the electronics with no ability to get information on any of it.
Now if we have a breakdown we are pretty much obliged to call a dealer network mechanic onto the property. Strictly speaking we can't touch any equipment anymore and servicing yourself has pretty much gone out the window.

A year ago we lost a pto on a tractor, it spent the next 6 months in the shed as a simple problem like that couldn't be fixed.

People are fighting to have these restrictions removed and it's a nasty fight. Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.

I suggest everyone contact their mp to register their displeasure. A phone call should suffice.
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 14-05-2018, 01:14 PM   #5
Maka
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
 
Maka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,093
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Embodiment of the AFF spirit in his efforts with ACP. 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

A good practical idea imo, nothing wrong with the idea for now.

In the future with ev's though things might be different because of the auto makers insistence on full protection of their IP (intellectual property) in every sense of the word ie: even down to the local mechanic tampering with the ecu which may be against IP laws afaik etc.

cheers, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792

Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007)
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 14-05-2018, 01:35 PM   #6
simon varley
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,712
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Bringing sanity to the Everest threads. 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
simon varley is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 02:17 PM   #7
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,864
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon varley View Post
quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
Regular roadworthy's should be carried out by a designated testing station, not linked to any mechanical workshop just like they do in New Zealand.

Its a quick process done by bookings, without corruption.

Unfortunately some mechanics would always find faults, and ruin the industries reputation
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 02:33 PM   #8
lra
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 866
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.
Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.
A good point that non-farmers would be aware of or understand.
lra is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 04:09 PM   #9
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,731
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon varley View Post
quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
How are those mechanics going to do a roadworthy when they have no access?
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 04:55 PM   #10
Dr Terry
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,287
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

I don't want to turn this into a political slanging match, but this was not ever Bill Shorten's idea or Labor Party policy.

The AAAA along with a few other automotive groups, have been pushing this one for years. They have had a few wins lately but the auto manufacturers are a strong lobby group.

Dr Terry
Dr Terry is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 05:11 PM   #11
GTLEGEND
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,471
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Every advice post I visit where OP are seeking advice for their new vehicle, he is there and adds valuable support and advice for rectifying the problem. Really is a Legend. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The quality of information he provides is in depth and highly valued by those posting questions. 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by simon varley View Post
quickest and easiest way to maintain auto mechanic's jobs is to require a regular roadworthy on all cars over a certain age.
We have this in NSW, every vehicle over 5 years old needs a roadworthy pink slip come annual registration time!!
GTLEGEND is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 14-05-2018, 06:00 PM   #12
dunga
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 509
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

The united states works like that the independents buy the right to log into the oem network and obtain all info required I believe its been like this for a long time .
dunga is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 14-05-2018, 06:23 PM   #13
GTLEGEND
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,471
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Every advice post I visit where OP are seeking advice for their new vehicle, he is there and adds valuable support and advice for rectifying the problem. Really is a Legend. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The quality of information he provides is in depth and highly valued by those posting questions. 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunga View Post
The united states works like that the independents buy the right to log into the oem network and obtain all info required I believe its been like this for a long time .
Ford Australia have this already with the Motorcraft Service website where you pay for a subscription to workshop manuals etc, but not sure about the other manufacturers. Although I think the independents want it for free!!
GTLEGEND is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 15-05-2018, 03:23 PM   #14
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,349
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
Thanks for posting this. I heard about it yesterday on the Abc.

This is really important. Any farmer here will know exactly what is going on.

Tractors, headers, sprayers etc have moved to electronic control just as rapidly as their road going brethren. With one big difference. The manufacturers have been allowed to "lock down" the electronics with no ability to get information on any of it.
Now if we have a breakdown we are pretty much obliged to call a dealer network mechanic onto the property. Strictly speaking we can't touch any equipment anymore and servicing yourself has pretty much gone out the window.

A year ago we lost a pto on a tractor, it spent the next 6 months in the shed as a simple problem like that couldn't be fixed.

People are fighting to have these restrictions removed and it's a nasty fight. Manufacturers basically own our machinery that we pay millions of dollars to purchase.

I suggest everyone contact their mp to register their displeasure. A phone call should suffice.
Can you get away with using older, non "black boxed" machinery? Last time I did harvest was many years ago and it was for the most mechanical with a shed load of belts and pulleys. Why pay millions for equipment if you essentially don't have the liberty to fix it?
__________________
I6 + AWD
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 15-05-2018, 04:20 PM   #15
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,731
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

10,000 hours is the lifespan we usually budget for.

You can keep things going for a while with engine rebuilds and such but once frames start cracking that's it.

We recently retired 2 versatile 1050's for that reason. Old girls had been toiling since the mid 80's so can't complain.
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 15-05-2018, 04:44 PM   #16
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Terry View Post
I don't want to turn this into a political slanging match, but this was not ever Bill Shorten's idea or Labor Party policy.

The AAAA along with a few other automotive groups, have been pushing this one for years. They have had a few wins lately but the auto manufacturers are a strong lobby group.

Dr Terry
I am all for supporting our local Industries/Farming etcetc, pity our pollies only look at it for short term gain and nothing else more.
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"

Last edited by GasoLane; 15-05-2018 at 08:24 PM. Reason: You've been here long enough to know better.
FTE217 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 15-05-2018, 05:12 PM   #17
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,169
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Safety certs should be waived on vehicles less than four years / 80,000 km
to encourage those owners to keep trading up to newer vehicles.
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 15-05-2018, 06:06 PM   #18
dunga
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 509
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
Safety certs should be waived on vehicles less than four years / 80,000 km
to encourage those owners to keep trading up to newer vehicles.
Do you mean pink slips ? i.e. road worthy certificates.
dunga is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 15-05-2018, 06:57 PM   #19
Davehoos
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Karuah Valley
Posts: 984
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

I service a local government fleet in NSW.

Part of having a fleet is having an in house maintanance system that is much stronger than for the general public. Most money people tell me 5 years for car and 8 years for plant equipment.

Talking to other tradesmen doing the same with other fleets most companies are doing the same. This was the reason NSW went with a cost saving 5 years for the first inspection and an inspection when the car changes hand.

If the dealers don't supply service training and back up why would you buy there products--we sold off our ford fleet. now have D-MAX hilux and Subaru commodore[old] X trail.

Tractors often last us 5000 hours graders around 10000 hours or 16 years. after that the cost of operaton balloons.

I get a new hino soon-150 000Km 10 years with factory scan tool and prts books provided.
__________________
BF11 XT EGas Wagon-SY TERRITORY AWD GHIA-
Land Rover 88
.MIDCOAST NSW.
Davehoos is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 15-05-2018, 08:03 PM   #20
Maka
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
 
Maka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,093
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Embodiment of the AFF spirit in his efforts with ACP. 
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

This link is from 2016, speaking about the same thing -

"The landmark deal that could help car owners and save local mechanic workshops from extinction"

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...2e7d1d34c58acd

cheers, Maka
__________________
Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792

Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007)
Maka is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-05-2018, 01:10 AM   #21
Crazy Dazz
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,883
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevsta007 View Post
Not a fan of Bill but, I like this Policy
And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??

Last edited by GasoLane; 16-05-2018 at 10:42 AM.
Crazy Dazz is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 12:46 PM   #22
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,864
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz View Post
And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??
Full on as always Daz,

What were taking about is making these resources available at a reasonable cost. no theft.

Without this 3rd party mechanics will be resigned to working on older vehicles, and will eventually close.
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 02:27 PM   #23
Mercury Bullet
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: WA
Posts: 3,731
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz View Post
And how exactly does he propose this massive illegal theft of Intellectual Property would take place??
I didn't know tightening an alternator belt was illegal ip theft.

Then again, Case IH seem to think so.
__________________
www.bseries.com.au/mercurybullet

2016 Falcon XR8. Powered by the legend that is - David Winter.
XC Cobra #181.
1985 Mack Superliner, CAT 3408, 24 speed Allison.
Mercury Bullet is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 03:51 PM   #24
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

LOL, one day soon everything will come down to IP theft or insult, imagine abusing the can by its name
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"
FTE217 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-05-2018, 03:59 PM   #25
Sprintey
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Sprintey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,349
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet View Post
10,000 hours is the lifespan we usually budget for.

You can keep things going for a while with engine rebuilds and such but once frames start cracking that's it.

We recently retired 2 versatile 1050's for that reason. Old girls had been toiling since the mid 80's so can't complain.
Fair enough MB. There is always also the Aussie ingenuity approach, you end up with huge custom equipment like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6w-ZnkeXI7c

Note, its basically 1940s level of mechanical tech, and don't it go!
__________________
I6 + AWD
Sprintey is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 05:11 PM   #26
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Love the diesel bill lol but love it !
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"
FTE217 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-05-2018, 05:15 PM   #27
five 7
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
five 7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,503
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevsta007 View Post
Regular roadworthy's should be carried out by a designated testing station, not linked to any mechanical workshop just like they do in New Zealand.

Its a quick process done by bookings, without corruption.

Unfortunately some mechanics would always find faults, and ruin the industries reputation
VTNZ is run by Govt, But Wof (Warrant of fitness) is also given by private approved workshops that also do mechanical repairs. Lenght of Wof can be from 6 months to 3 years depending on first registration of car. Info can be found at NZ transport Agency...
five 7 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 16-05-2018, 05:26 PM   #28
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-releas...ir-information

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W46...ature=youtu.be

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_5780244459001

and here is as quoted, AAAA have been on this for 3yrs :

On Sunday 13th of May, Bill Shorten (Leader of the Opposition) and Andrew Leigh (Shadow Minister for Competition) announced that the ALP have adopted Mandatory Data Sharing as an election commitment. This announcement follows three years of work from AAAA staff and members speaking with local MPs and with Andrew Leigh. This is a welcome development in the Choice of Repairer Campaign.
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"

Last edited by FTE217; 16-05-2018 at 05:33 PM.
FTE217 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 05:32 PM   #29
ivorya
Mad Scientist!
 
ivorya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,807
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

if you recall, written into the FTA was a clause that gave OEM exclusive rights to THEIR vehicles. That's right, even though you BUY the vehicle, you don't own the serviceability. You have to take the vehicle to the Manufacturer for service, parts etc. causing a whole service (mechanics) industry to die.
I'm glad Shorty is talking about it and has a plan!

How anyone could write this in, I have no idea!!!

I'm glad the rubbish the LIBS have signed us up for has been seriously watered down!
ivorya is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 16-05-2018, 05:34 PM   #30
FTE217
T3/Sprint8
Donating Member2
 
FTE217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 15,871
Default Re: Labor's Pitch to save Mechanic Industry

agree, I'm only ****ed its shorten taking this up but its better than no one at all.

and people are fapping over the future EV's, hope they short en out ! pardon the pun.
__________________
Tickfords T3/TS50 '02
Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16
Daily Macan GTS
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln"
FTE217 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL