*AFF Survey* - Round 1 - XR6/T differentiation - Page 2

vztrt · 09-09-2010, 06:52 PM

I'd personally rather more features be put in the car then a differentiation of the two models. For a company with a limited budget, the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Iggypoppin' · 09-09-2010, 07:07 PM

Opposite of slow...
It was like a play on words.
I was young and stupid!

Mr Brooksy · 09-09-2010, 07:08 PM

A red 6 badge instead of silver should do the trick. It already has the intercooler stareing you in the face. A slight badge difference would just make that tiny bit of difference imo.

**TUF_302** · 09-09-2010, 07:15 PM

I think the way things are with them is fine as is, the whole idea is to be able to buy a street sleeper as such, if I was to get an XR6 Turbo, id take the turbo badges off it just to surprise people lol, if you want a full on in your face turbo Falcon you would go for the F6

BFZF8 · 09-09-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

A red 6 badge instead of silver should do the trick. It already has the intercooler stareing you in the face. A slight badge difference would just make that tiny bit of difference imo.

I came here to say exactly this. That's all I think is required to set the two apart. Certainly beats waiting to see the car from behind or trying play spot the intercooler.

mrbaxr6t · 09-09-2010, 08:34 PM

I chose other and heres my rebuke

Ford built up the XR nameplate late in the E series and on to the B series an XR was a "I want" type of model, but with the G series the XR looks like a fleet hack, imho ALL XRs need more differentiation from the standard models, it was OK on the B series as they had skirts and those lights - instantly recognizable as an XR on the G series you have to be an avid Ford nut to spot the difference, there is a very good reason that former XR owners are now driving G6E and G6ET, the XR nameplate has been all but ruined by Ford. Sadly.

sneaky · 09-09-2010, 08:48 PM

I am happy with the strategy Ford has employed to date got my vote.

i like the fact that the turbo model doesn't stand out as a 'fast' looking car over the normal xr6. i will consider removing the turbo badges if i eventually buy one next year.

would people prefer that ford took the subaru sti approach of putting as many badges on the car as possible? i remember a review of an old sti and they had counted 13 sti badges all over the car.

i say keep the turbo understated to remove the idiots trying to race you at traffic lights and people wanting to steal them

DJMaRV · 09-09-2010, 10:10 PM

I agree with the bonnet vents foremost, for the Ts only(an it helps with the heat)..turbos on any car should be accompanied by vents...

Secondly the red 6 on the side skirt, or even turbo badges on the side skirt...

Thirdly the slightly different front grill, maybe just open in the middle(no mesh) to exspose the shiny cooler...

I didnt by a turbo so i could fool ppl an blow em off at the lights....shouldnt have to fool em to do that..:P

**Dave R** · 09-09-2010, 10:56 PM

Sometimes less is more; I don't think the XR6T needs to look any different from the already handsome XR6 - it gets the shiny front mount and obviously the badging. Afterall, the XR6T is just a variant of the XR6. Besides the engine/trans, everything else is the same. People who are into cars will respect the turbo badge and the 'cooler, it just doesn't need unique vents or anything else (dare I say rice?) to be complete, XR6T has always been classy like that.

**Polyal** · 10-09-2010, 12:49 PM

Great stuff people, I am very appreciative. I will let this thread/poll run until mid night sunday the 12th and then on the 13th I will post the next phase. I hope you all find this interesting and a great chance to let your opinion be heard by Ford aswell.

TZENU · 10-09-2010, 01:11 PM

In terms of model differentiation, I don't think Ford need to make it anymore obvious. At the end of the day it really is the same car bar the running gear.

I am also happy with the gap between the Turbo XR6 and the F6. On one hand you have the subtle styling of the XR6 (bodykit etc, over the base falcon) and in the other hand you have an in-your-face, take no prisoners F6.

**Raptor** · 10-09-2010, 01:16 PM

I would have prefered further differentiation between the NA and turbo models, particularly the supposedly sportier XR offerings though not necessarliy between the G6E and G6ET prestige models.

Options that I think Ford could have considered, which couldn't have been too complex or costly to implement are;

Bonnet cutouts for ventilation - which could have actually served a practical purpose on the turbo models to reduce engine bay temperatures. FFS even Sigma turbos (remember those) from the early 80's managed to have them (below)

and/or
An additional pressing to add twin ridgelines to the bonnet, similar to that used by Subaru on their previous Outback models (below).
In Ford's case this would have been to emphasise the potential of the INLINE engine with DOHC configuration. IMHO this would have been a nice partner to the V8's bulge.

[what it means on a Subaru is anyones guess ]

Why didn't they

I think Ford are still smarting from their initial AU experience (now referred to as AU1) where each model in the Falcon range (Forte, Futura, Ghia) had a different grill and/or bonnet. This confused the public and left no one wanting the downmarket (but fancy named) Forte as it was too easily recognised as the 'poverty pack' model.

As an aside, but in a similar theme, I think the AWD Territory should have been differentiated from the RWD Territory model through use of different cladding/painting/wheel/tyre options. Also as done successfully by Subaru in their Outback and Liberty models, even though they are all AWD's

.

Brazen · 10-09-2010, 01:24 PM

Put the XT tailights on the XR6 and put the indicator in the mirrors on the XR6 turbo and XR8. Bang instant differentation with not a cent on development.

sleek7 · 10-09-2010, 02:08 PM

XR6 NA and T has flat normal bonnet, XR8 has the famous bonnet bulge, I would love for my turbo to have one or a couple of vents/nostrils in the bonnet for differentiation. Doesnt have to be big at all, but would make it stand out more and give it a meaner look.

EgoFG · 10-09-2010, 02:27 PM

I agree with MrBax r6t

I think there is not enough differentiation between the XT and the XR6*.
I think there should be a larger cosmetic difference, and more than a simple handling package.
the XR6 should be able to outperform the XT in a straight line.

MAGPIE · 10-09-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

Ford built up the XR nameplate late in the E series and on to the B series an XR was a "I want" type of model, but with the G series the XR looks like a fleet hack

They are a fleet hack... aren't they

Well they are in NZ and a rental company hack, it is actually quite sad.

The T needs vents or something, needs to be different from the XR6.

Romulus · 10-09-2010, 03:19 PM

Styling wise the XR6T is good but it should have an option for bigger brakes, like Holden is going to do with it's SS-V. Say, add a premium brake package (not the same type that was offered on the BA MKII) that will fit under the 18" wheels. Not everyone wants or has the budget to buy a FPV F6.

Also, there could be further product differentiation with perhaps a bigger mouth in the front bumper for airflow, or a different rear wing design. You're paying more, it should reflect that with more than just a turbo badge.

HSE2 · 11-09-2010, 08:48 AM

I said I was happy but for a different reason.
Ford is only interested in selling volume and in this case they have previously identified that the lower end of the market is a weakness.
Of particular stated concern is the percentage of private buyers to the Falcon brand, so they set about trying to make a product that in the lower end of the models made consumers feel that they were getting more for less or punching above its weight so to speak.

Under these circumstances the opinions of XR6T consumers are secondary to the feelings of more budget focused consumers. The objective is to not make the base model consumer feel he has visibly purchased something that is distinguishable as inferior. It’s actually got nothing to do with wishing or believing that understated is best or even desired.

That is obviously counter to the premium product consumer, who in general terms, likes to be acknowledged and visually distinguished in product choice. From that perspective it’s likely a large percentage of that demographic will say there is not enough of a statement being made in terms of model segregation and by virtue, distinction.

If confronted, Fords marketing would most likely say, yes we know how turbo consumers feel, what we want to know is what impact such a direction would have on the N/A consumers. They will believe that turbo consumers will buy that product no matter what, but N/A consumers might be turned off if confronted with obvious design cues that tell the world they have purchased the bottom rung.

I know this sounds a bit strange but unless it’s a functional requirement the questions will focus solely on the reaction to the more basic product first. I believe Ford are happy with XR6 and if feedback indicates in any way that consumers are registering that they like the fact that it’s not easy to tell they don’t have the more credible turbo engine, Ford will justify the styling in those terms and point to the steady increase in entry level XR form in successive models. Consumers have moved into XR6 and away from XT for a number of reasons, one of which is likely to be the lack of visual difference with higher end models.

Just a different perspective to think about.

Falc'man · 11-09-2010, 09:27 AM

^^ Exactly my thoughts, too; the balance is spot on.

It's the case where "wants" are never left begging, where you may see Turbo owners want more with respects in appearance, and NA owners want more grunt, but in fact if I was to make just one change to either it would to include the Turbo's exhaust on the NA.

Romulus · 11-09-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

I said I was happy but for a different reason.
Ford is only interested in selling volume and in this case they have previously identified that the lower end of the market is a weakness.
Of particular stated concern is the percentage of private buyers to the Falcon brand, so they set about trying to make a product that in the lower end of the models made consumers feel that they were getting more for less or punching above its weight so to speak.

Under these circumstances the opinions of XR6T consumers are secondary to the feelings of more budget focused consumers. The objective is to not make the base model consumer feel he has visibly purchased something that is distinguishable as inferior. It’s actually got nothing to do with wishing or believing that understated is best or even desired.

That is obviously counter to the premium product consumer, who in general terms, likes to be acknowledged and visually distinguished in product choice. From that perspective it’s likely a large percentage of that demographic will say there is not enough of a statement being made in terms of model segregation and by virtue, distinction.

If confronted, Fords marketing would most likely say, yes we know how turbo consumers feel, what we want to know is what impact such a direction would have on the N/A consumers. They will believe that turbo consumers will buy that product no matter what, but N/A consumers might be turned off if confronted with obvious design cues that tell the world they have purchased the bottom rung.

I know this sounds a bit strange but unless it’s a functional requirement the questions will focus solely on the reaction to the more basic product first. I believe Ford are happy with XR6 and if feedback indicates in any way that consumers are registering that they like the fact that it’s not easy to tell they don’t have the more credible turbo engine, Ford will justify the styling in those terms and point to the steady increase in entry level XR form in successive models. Consumers have moved into XR6 and away from XT for a number of reasons, one of which is likely to be the lack of visual difference with higher end models.

Just a different perspective to think about.

Spot on. Ford have pulled the 'bottom up', and in doing so have created a model that people want to have. You're right, there's very few visible cues differentiation the XR6 from XR6T, and to some extend the only difference between the XR6 and XR8 is the power buldge. Joe Blow who forked out his own money to buy a XR6 may well be in a position where his friend who know nothing about cars ask him if it's a XR6T or XR8......making him/her feel good about their purchase.

MAGPIE · 11-09-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

but N/A consumers might be turned off if confronted with obvious design cues that tell the world they have purchased the bottom rung.

This is why there should be a power differential between the XR6 and the rest (XT/Futura/G6/whatever) like there used to be, an extra 5-10 kW and a LSD would do wonders.

Fireblade · 11-09-2010, 01:10 PM

The only difference I would like would be the turbo territory style bonnet on the XR6T, I think thats all it needs.

flappist · 11-09-2010, 01:48 PM

The most difficult thing about doing this sort of investigating is observing from another point of view, especially if that view contradicts your own.

Ford have 3 product lines in the Falcon range; XT, G and XR.

XT is the basic workhorse and fleet vehicle which focuses on functionality and operating expense. A wheel on each corner, an engine and a small bottom line are the real priorities.

G series are the "luxury" line which boast low profile yet stylish looks and reasonable capability.

XR series are the "sporty" line which boast a slightly more "sporty" look while demonstrating EXACTLY the same performance as the G series.

The XR series are NOT performance vehicles as they do not feature any upgraded technology other than a bit of blingy plastic and a sporty looking instrument cluster. They are sporty looking Falcons.

Ford sell all their performance vehicles via FPV (I wonder where that acronym came from).

The majority of new Falcon buyers are not "enthusiasts", do not modify their car in any way and are not members of AFF or its ilk.

Many buyers do not want to stand out in the crowd are draw attention as in the 21st century police state in which we live, looking like a hoon is exactly the same as driving like a hoon and only hoons buy hoon cars.
Indicative evidence toward this is the runaway success of the G6ET, the turbo for those who want the "go" without the "show".

Those who wish the "show" are well catered for by FPV and it is interesting to note that in that arena, "show" has outsold "go" 2:1.

Having the XR6 and XR6T built almost identically has been one of the major marketing strengths as it has kept the costs down while allowing those who cannot buy/drive a turbo for any number or reasons to have their "sporty car" as well as those who want the turbo in their "sporty car" to blend in more and not draw the crabs.

If you want a XR6T that is strongly differentiated from the XR6 buy a F6, that is what they are for.

FNQracing · 11-09-2010, 02:25 PM

There is plenty of differentiation between the T and non T. One goes like stink, the other doesn't.

I'd rather no boy-racer bits, just as it is now. A discrete little TURBO badge is more than enough.

There is nothing "special" about the T. Its got a turbo slapped on. Hardly worth letting the whole world know.

FNQracing · 11-09-2010, 02:28 PM

I forgot to add, I think the vast majority of T owners who wish there was more differentiation are probably pi$$ed coz their car is mistaken for a model that the lower class drive.

4VCLEVO · 11-09-2010, 02:44 PM

Like others have said, I think the turbo could do with a vent in the bonnet.

vztrt · 11-09-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFOracing

I forgot to add, I think the vast majority of T owners who wish there was more differentiation are probably pi$$ed coz their car is mistaken for a model that the lower class drive.

I always seem to gat/gotten 'oh an XR6...is it the turbo?'

DMXR6T · 11-09-2010, 03:58 PM

What is it with these people that want the "look at me" cars? Some sort of psychological problem where they think that the car makes them better? I took the turbo badge off my car as I do NOT want attention (cops or hoons). I enjoy the car for what it is, not what other people see in the car. One reason that I did not buy an F6 2 years ago was the boy racer looks.

Leave the turbo alone! If the boy racers want a different look then let then add their bogan looks themselves.

DayTE · 12-09-2010, 12:10 AM

I voted for differentation. I think the balance is pretty bloody good as it stands and I'm a "subtle is better" type person, but I think it would be good to have a little extra for the turbo/8 models.

And I think something as simple as the indicators in the mirrors would be enough. Or a silver grill as opposed to a black one. Or even as something as simple as the subtle splits in the BA GT lower front bar as opposed to the solid lower bar on the GT-P.

I just think it would be good for the trainspotters to be able to go "that's a turbo", but the general public barely notice.

But these are my thought/opinions.

And flappist, not everyone can afford the extra 20-30k to buy an F6. I know if I could have afforded one I wouldn't have bought my old Turbo ute half a dozen years ago. I would have got and F6. But I would have bought it for "go" not "show".

AussieAV · 12-09-2010, 03:51 AM

Polyal, I voted for "other" because while I'd like to see some further differentiation, just not in the way most here seem to be advocating.

Once you go above the base XT, Ford seem to have two different paths that buyers can follow, they can have a sporty appearance (XRs) or a more sophisticated appearance (G6). So far a reasonable strategy as most buyers would lean one way or the other.

Then we have the G6 foodchain.

G6 - sophisticated appearance, good luxury interior, good performance
G6E - sophisticated appearnce, higher luxury interior, good performance
G6ET - sophisticated appearance, higher luxury interior, sports performance

A great range that makes perfect sense, the more you spend, the more you get. People who like a sophisticated looking car have a great range choice.

Then we have the XR foodchain

XR6 - sporty looks, basic interior, good performance
XR6T - sporty looks, basic interior, sports performance
XR8 - sporty looks, basic interior, sports performance

As you go up the G6 food chain you can get more luxury and more performance.

As you go up the XR foodchain, the only thing your extra money gets you is more performance.

I don't think the XRs need any further exterior differentiation, I think they need a few creature comforts to add some interior differentiation.

A turbo driver should be able to feel like their extra money was well spent without having to bury their right foot to remember what the extra $7000 odd got them. Sitting in the driver's seat, doing 60kph in traffic, a turbo driver wouldn't have any incling of what they'd spent their extra money on.

I like a sporty looking car, because growing up I watched the Aussie Touring Cars. As a teenager I always wanted a hotted up car, but could never afford to go much beyond sticking some mags on the ones I owned.

As you get older, there is still the appeal of owning a more powerful car, but you realise you're never really going to use it, so why spend more on the turbo when all you are getting is a boost up from an already impressive 195kW of power and 391Nm of torque, and a heftier fuel bill.

This isn't just conjecture on my part, its a thought process I took a lot of time over before buying my XR50 N/A. The extra power of the Turbo made me want it. If it had something other than "premium sound" over the N/A I might have considered it. If it had a driver's seat with position memory, and a sunglass holder, I would have jumped at it - even for an extra $8-9000.

View Poll Results: Your opinion on the current XR6 and XR6T relationship
I am happy with the strategy Ford has employed to date	74	37.37%
I would prefer the XR6T to be futher differentiated	118	59.60%
Other, please explain	6	3.03%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll