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Old 20-04-2006, 02:10 PM   #61
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To hell with the car collectors, lets hope that petrol prices come down somewhat and stabilise, like after the 70's crisis!

I was in NZ about a month ago, and they were suffering $1.45, imagine what it's like now :
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Old 20-04-2006, 02:12 PM   #62
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Old 20-04-2006, 02:18 PM   #63
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A few weeks ago there was a French movie on SBS, can't remember the name, that was made documentary-style. It was set a few years in the future where the price of oil now drives every possible part of life. Terrorism now targets oil almost exclusively and investors use oil, where whole companies collapse on it. All this stuff happens that makes everything worse and the whole technological world turns to crap, and we follow this one guy who was on top of it all as an investor and then forced to beg for a coffee like everyone else. It was a great and scary film. Did anyone else see it?
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Old 20-04-2006, 02:53 PM   #64
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4.9 EF futura......... whoe decides how much exise to take out of fuel?

Dosen't our tax pay for all those trips the politicians take? the $70 000 Statesmans they ride around in? The $100 000 a year pensions they recieve when they retire? The $200 a head lunches they have?

If they bought hyundai getz's (low cost to buy and frugal fuel econony) for petes sake, how much MORE money would the government have to toy with?

The money the government could cut from the fuel exise or GST would not ruin the budget.
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Old 20-04-2006, 03:08 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ED turbo (mickmalta)
4.9 EF futura......... whoe decides how much exise to take out of fuel?

Dosen't our tax pay for all those trips the politicians take? the $70 000 Statesmans they ride around in? The $100 000 a year pensions they recieve when they retire? The $200 a head lunches they have?

If they bought hyundai getz's (low cost to buy and frugal fuel econony) for petes sake, how much MORE money would the government have to toy with?

The money the government could cut from the fuel exise or GST would not ruin the budget.
Good call. I'm all for removing excess in the public service.

Heck, im a public servant myself but NEVER take advantage of the allowances etc. which we are provided with. An example - when travelling, we are technically allowed $80 per DAY for food etc. To hell with that, i get paid OK - i'll buy my own lunch thanks. I couldnt sleep at night if i were rorting the country like that.

But even removing the statesmans, pensions, etc is still talking small amounts compared to the quantum we are discussing here. If it were to be offset by a reduction in the excise you're probably talking 0.005 cents per litre...

The excise used to be indexed (i believe twice per annum) to inflation as measured by the CPI index. Excise indexation was aboloshed by the federal government in march 2001 (ironically - as a result of people whinging about rising fuel prices). Fixed at its current rate. At the time, as i recall, people were pretty impressed with the government's decision to do. Very few complaints that the excise would not be increased again. I dont recall any public requests to lower the excise.... until oil prices rose....

I guess what im saying is that we dont give the government much incentive to reduce the excise. They'll be cheered today but the international fuel price will rise again tomorrow and we'll be demanding further tax cuts.

For how long would such a solution be viable?
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Old 20-04-2006, 06:31 PM   #66
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So does anyone think that oil will hit a price where it will peak out? i.e. the price will be so high that demand will drop dramatically? .. or is that just being simplistic?
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Old 20-04-2006, 06:36 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by OzJavelin
So does anyone think that oil will hit a price where it will peak out? i.e. the price will be so high that demand will drop dramatically? .. or is that just being simplistic?
I would say within a few months prices will settle for oil back down around the $65 a barrel mark, and prices will drop about 12 cents per litre at the high mark.

Who knows if that will happen, But in the meantime, fuel WILL hit $80 per barrel before financial year end. Those Sheik's need ANOTHER Bentley in their garage, gold plated......
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Old 20-04-2006, 06:49 PM   #68
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.. also, am I the only person who thinks a lot of this is the problem of sleazy stock market traders; i.e. the people who don't produce/manufacture anything, but appear to be "experts" in understanding future impacts of world events on oil? At least oil companies, resellers, govts, etc actually DO SOMETHING for the money get from us at the pump ..

Again .. too simplistic?
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:06 PM   #69
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Just fueled up Shell 100 @ $1.547 in Cheltenham. It hurts, gonna start pushing to work soon.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:08 PM   #70
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What do you expect - The Australian Government are nothing else but 'Revenue Raising Ar$eholes'.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:08 PM   #71
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Mr. EFXR, what is the price difference between optimax and 100?

Our locals are all about the $1.37 for unleaded.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:15 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzJavelin
.. also, am I the only person who thinks a lot of this is the problem of sleazy stock market traders; i.e. the people who don't produce/manufacture anything, but appear to be "experts" in understanding future impacts of world events on oil? At least oil companies, resellers, govts, etc actually DO SOMETHING for the money get from us at the pump ..

Again .. too simplistic?
Not at all.

They do have a slight impact on the price... more a result of the futures trading on NYMEX (new york mercantile exchange... i.e. commodities market)... futures contracts tend to lead the spot price to a self-fulfilled prophecy.

More to do with small, short term volatility tho... they have little to do with the overall trends of the price...

I saw one of the traders on the news last night saying that "$75 sounds like a nice, round number"... so if that's his trading strategy then let's see what happens to the spot price.... they were claiming the rest of april and first few days of may will see little/no relief at the pump as the refineries change their process around this time - something to do with different processes between winter and summer in the northern hemi...
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:18 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by ED turbo (mickmalta)
Mr. EFXR, what is the price difference between optimax and 100?

Our locals are all about the $1.37 for unleaded.
Not to sure mate, didn't really pay attention, all I know is that Shell ULP was sitting at $1.379. In most cases Optimax will be 10-12 cents more and then comes Optimax 100.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by merlin
How many litres do one of those Shell oil trucks/tankers hold? and how long is the fuels shelf life? out:
Full ~50,000litres.. depending on how many compartments they have and how many are full.
Shelf life for fuel... a few months~a year in a jerry can for the mower before it goes off, not sure on large quantities..
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:29 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
To hell with the car collectors, lets hope that petrol prices come down somewhat and stabilise, like after the 70's crisis!

I was in NZ about a month ago, and they were suffering $1.45, imagine what it's like now :
$1.65 91, $1.73 96. About 40% of that price is taxes and 5% is profits but that is from the petrol companies so its probably shed loads different in reality.

Although Shell's graph is interesting.

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Old 20-04-2006, 07:33 PM   #76
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^ what's your GST rate in NZ (or VAT... whatever its called) ??
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:39 PM   #77
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GST, 12.5% plus all the other crap they put on for Auckland roads. Not sure what the deal with Diesel is.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:42 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by M14A-Mclaren
$1.65 91, $1.73 96. About 40% of that price is taxes and 5% is profits but that is from the petrol companies so its probably shed loads different in reality.

Although Shell's graph is interesting.

Very good graph, for everyone blaming the governemnet look at this graph! look how much tax Japan an European coutrys pay, and they have much bigger poulations then we do , and they probably dont have as good as social sucurity and medical penifits that we do.

people compain about paying so much tax, but i bet you wont regret paying it when you loose your job and have to use social sucurity, or when your in hospital with huge medical bills
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:47 PM   #79
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Lol - have a squiz at the fuel excises paid in the middle east... negative... i.e. the government pays for their fuel with massivie subsidies. Massive subsidies.
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Old 20-04-2006, 07:49 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by xr6 ausome
misses tanked up this avo and the servo bloke told her its going up to 139.9 lt at 15:00 I made it with 5 min to spear prices went up as i was filling up.ttendent rekons another 2 weeks then it may come down a little but expect to pay around 1.30 ltr on good days :

and all your Politival crap goes both ways (Bracks) Labour speed fines when they were in power you payed 17% intrest rates

Librals the GST oh and as far as I know Labour was claiming excise to when they were in Power all of them are ИИИИed in there own way.
Why dont you learn to re-read your comments before posting.

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Old 20-04-2006, 07:58 PM   #81
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I know WA has fuelwatch that shows them the cheapest price in WA. Does anyone know if the other states have similar & if so what the web address is?
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Old 20-04-2006, 08:10 PM   #82
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i just payed 149.9 for bp ulitmate, i dont mind though
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Old 20-04-2006, 08:16 PM   #83
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i just payed 149.9 for bp ulitmate, i dont mind though
Yeah, I'm was like that too, but once you drive the car more often you will realise that Wages ain't going up at the rate that Fuel prices are. That when you will do your sums and conclude that majority of the Wages go to Fuel.
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Old 20-04-2006, 08:35 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FordFan86
Full ~50,000litres.. depending on how many compartments they have and how many are full.
Shelf life for fuel... a few months~a year in a jerry can for the mower before it goes off, not sure on large quantities..
That'd be one good truck to jack, quick calculation a full tanker would be worth $70,000 to you.
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Old 20-04-2006, 08:41 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by EF_Dave
Very good graph, for everyone blaming the governemnet look at this graph! look how much tax Japan an European coutrys pay, and they have much bigger poulations then we do , and they probably dont have as good as social sucurity and medical penifits that we do.

people compain about paying so much tax, but i bet you wont regret paying it when you loose your job and have to use social sucurity, or when your in hospital with huge medical bills
Yeah put You got to wonder why its costing US, Canada, UK, Germany and Japan more to get than NZ, Aus and Korea. I find it especially surprising that it would cost more for America.
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Old 20-04-2006, 09:17 PM   #86
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Some good posts by EF_dave and 4.9_EF_FUTURA. Getting closer to reality.

There seems to be alot of misinformed post here about the tax structure on fuels.

Petrol pricing is quite complicated, but nowhere near as complicated as the OIL price.

I'll quote one of my previous posts (with updates) on the subject as we're just covering the same ground.

Now lets get some facts straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by posted by JEM
Some important points to consider...

1. The easy OIL is GONE.

2. We are now NOT discovering new fields at the rate that we were or need to, even with new seismic mapping technology etc. The largest producing fields were all discovered back in the 40's, 50's and 60's. We are by far, consuming more OIL per year than we are discovering.

3. Some of the major fields around the world (Saudi, Kuwait) are now at PEAK and can't be pushed any further. They are pumping so much water (7 million barrels a day) into them to pressurise the field to extend the life of the field but are now bordering on uneconomic fields because the water cut (amount of water extracted with the oil)is approaching 40/50%.

4. We can't just point the finger at the government etc. They are actually doing a lot to help OIL/GAS explorers in Australia, and yes we do have many producing oil and gas fileds here, but as has been mentioned, depending on the age of the structures in the field etc, the composition of the oil is of a certain grade and is suitable for certain things.

5. The federal government have an excise on our fuel of ~38c flat for high grade energy fuel (Petrol, diesel), not a % as some think. The difference between the price of petrol from state to state is a local government initiative + GST. The GST is calculated on the petrol price including the excise portion. That is totally un-necessary.

Petrol and Diesel are in the high grade class as they provide 30+megajoules/ltr.

LPG attracts an excise of 23c/ltr as it has lower rating than petrol/diesel.

Ethanol cheaper excise again, 18c/ltr.
So moving on... to complicate things even more, you have currencies that affect pricing, you have countries that have fixed/floating currencies which will affect their buying power. You have countries that can aggressivley buy up to increase their own stockpiles of commodities also.

1 post is by far not enough to try and explain how it all works and to convince us all that the governement are almost powerless in improving the situation.
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Old 20-04-2006, 09:24 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '67
Thre is an upside to this, as it seems as though history is repeating itself.
There was a fuel crisis in the early 70's, and that fuel crisis saved many muscle cars from being driven and basically placed in storage for many years. Great for the collector/muscle car appreciator of the future.
Not even comparible!

The agenda driving the crisis you speak of was totally political.

Today's situation is a true supply/demand scenario that is not likely to improve anytime soon.

The great hope is that there will be some new oil fields found and able to be brought into production. There is great opportunity in Australian waters, off New Zealand and elsewhere around the globe, it's juts a catch22, the higher the price of OIL goes, the more it costs to find and produce it.
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Old 20-04-2006, 09:51 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ED turbo (mickmalta)
To think that the more fuel goes up, the more exise the government collects.........

We are basically being held at ransom by a government who isnt interested in how low wage earners live, but by how many ppl he can screw over for as long as it takes before someone (a motoring body) decides to stand up and do something about the 50 cents + a litre going straight into little Johhny's pocket.

$70 a barrel for oil dosent warrant $1.43 at the bowser.

Remember when Howard 'promised' that GST would never be put on fuel?

10 cents a litre ontop of the 50 cents of government tax is absurd.

I will not be voting for John Howard next election, he has broken way too many promises.
Sorry ED, but not one fact is present in your post.
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Old 20-04-2006, 09:56 PM   #89
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stop b1tching fuels expensive big deal

all i can say is when i get a turbo car ill be fvcken broke lol meh ,bring on the daily drivers...
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Old 20-04-2006, 09:56 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzJavelin
I've heard "experts" tell us that a rise of US$1/barrel in oil SHOULD translate to AU$0.01 rise at the pump in Australia. So if oil jumps from say US$67 to US$71 .. where does the typical AU$0.13->0.18 cent jump come from? At our current prices oil should theoretically be about US$90/barrel????
Nowhere near as simple as that. Have to consider $AUS/$US rates, ontop of that the differing state initiatives and the indivisual station owners also raising their own margins.
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