Future of Ford and Holden Could be Revealed in Detroit this week

csv8 · 11-01-2011, 01:57 AM

The future of Australian motoring and the homegrown Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore could be revealed in Detroit this week.

Decisions are needed soon on the future replacements of both cars, which are set for a total overhaul within five years. Australia's third maker, Toyota, is already committed to a new - generation Camry that will hit the road later this year. It is also investing more than $300 million in a local engine factory and will have a replacement for its current Camry hybrid in 2012.

But there are more questions than answers on the Falcon and Commodore - which will each cost more than $500 million to renew for sales beyond 2015. Ford's global boss Alan Mulally will face a grilling at the opening of the North American International Motor Show and his counterpart at General Motors, Mark Reuss, will get similar questions.

Both men are well connected to Australia - Mulally has been guiding the blue oval brand for more than five years and has visited Broadmeadows, while Reuss is a former president of GM Holden - and know the critical importance of their local heroes.

Holden is already hinting through its current chief, Mike Devereux, that it sees an ongoing future for a large, rear-wheel drive replacement for the Commodore. He tells Carsguide yesterday that Holden has a solid plan and is tracking towards another year of profitable sales in 2011.

"My goal is to be the best car company in Australia. A very profitable, great car company. I think there are outcomes to being great," says Devereux.

But Mulally rocked the Australian motor industry exactly a year ago - at the opening of last year's Detroit motor show - when he refused to confirm a future for a local Falcon. Since then, two potential paths for the Falcon have emerged - some sort of joint-venture development with the next Mustang in the USA or a twinning with a global Taurus sedan under the worldwide One Ford program.

In either case, Mulally has said repeatedly that there will not be an 'orphan' car in Australia without some sort of global synergy. Ford Australia also faces a major crunch this year on local sales, with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels and needing a significant boost from the much-updated Territory SUV that hits the road in the first quarter.

EgoFG · 11-01-2011, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford Australia also faces a major crunch this year on local sales, with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels

I really do not think this is true.

Falcon_Crazy · 11-01-2011, 08:40 AM

I was under impression that The Falcon had been profitable? that said, by how much is what they are probably suggstion with the sustainable comment.

As we've seen with T6, Ford Australia has a LOT to offer the rest of the motoring world and when Falcon becomes part of the One Stragey, lets just hope we have a major part to play. GM showed what is possible with the Dunnydore...I'd rather a Falcon with signficant Australian inout that can be appreciated across the globe.

Joe5619 · 11-01-2011, 08:54 AM

It is that time of the year where the media starts writing total BS about Falcon!!!

I did read in one of the articles relating to the Detroit show (dont think it is this one), that Holdens boss said they have to build 105,000 to be sustainable & that they only built 60,000 in 2010.

The Snout · 11-01-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by csv8

with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels.

Not really surprised. You don't flog off cheap XR6's and keep claiming the quality over quantity line. Stick a folk in it, she's done. Hello Taurus.

ivorya · 11-01-2011, 09:40 AM

Holden to stay RWD, it seems from the article.

(Devereux admitted that Holden had evaluated a new General Motors front-drive platform that currently underpins Toyota Camry competitors in Europe and North America -- as well as one that underpins the Chevrolet Impala -- but they have all-but been ruled out.)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...e-future-23166

MickyB · 11-01-2011, 09:50 AM

This doesn't look very promising at all.

chevypower · 11-01-2011, 09:51 AM

Yeah because at the Detroit Auto Show, discussing Australia is really relevant, and at the forefront of everyone's minds. More stupid crap from Aussie Motoring Media, reporting news when there isn't any. Nothing has changed.

**Raptor** · 11-01-2011, 10:15 AM

My speculation.

Lincoln goes global as a premium Ford product.

Our RWD Falcon DNA forms the basis of the global Lincoln, some of which is also shared with Mustang. We produce RHD versions of both for several markets, including our own.

The everyman Falcon is replaced by the Taurus, made in ????

phillyc · 11-01-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Yeah because at the Detroit Auto Show, discussing Australia is really relevant, and at the forefront of everyone's minds. More stupid crap from Aussie Motoring Media, reporting news when there isn't any. Nothing has changed.

Agreed. The comment about 'Not holding your breath waiting for RWD' doesn't necessarily mean it won't be. It just means we haven't made the decision, we won't be making be making an announcement and RWD hasn't been decided upon.

Joe5619 · 11-01-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MickyB

This doesn't look very promising at all.

That one is not good at all.. Direct comments from global chief saying "I wouldn’t be holding my breath for a rear-wheel drive Falcon,”.. Here's hoping Australia gets some say in design & maybe still built here & AWD??

One Drone · 11-01-2011, 10:54 AM

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...111-19lel.html

Years of heritage could be axed with the Ford design chief all but confirming the end of the traditional rear-drive Falcon

The rear-wheel drive Australian-designed Ford Falcon is almost certainly dead.

Instead, the next generation Falcon due after 2015 seems certain to be part of a global front and all-wheel drive family of large cars.

Ford Motor Company’s global design chief J Mays all-but confirmed the news long-dreaded by Aussie 'Blue Oval' fans at the Detroit motor show today.

Advertisement: Story continues below “I wouldn’t be holding my breath for a rear-wheel drive Falcon,” Mays told Drive. “I think the chances are we will be all-wheel-drive.”

Mays acknowledged the news would be met with shock and dismay among Australian Ford fans, who celebrated the nameplate’s 50th anniversary in 2010.

“I understand that, but we are pretty confident we can find the right answers. It’s the same things that appeal on a rear-wheel-drive car in Australia that appeal for a rear-wheel-drive car here in the USA.”

Mays said the final decision confirming the shift away from rear-wheel-drive for Falcon would be made within six months.

He would not comment on the implications of the decision for Ford’s Australian manufacturing plant in Melbourne, nor whether V8 engines would be part of the mix.

These topics, plus the future of the popular Falcon ute, will become the centre of intense speculation now that the fundamental Falcon architecture decision seems to have been made.

The future of Falcon and which wheels it drives has been a running story for years, as traditional large rear-wheel drive car sales have dipped dramatically over more than a decade. The Falcon notched up its worst sales in its 50-year history last year.

Rear-wheel-drive has long been a strong sales pitch of the locally made Falcon and its Holden Commodore rival, perceived as superior dynamically, particularly for towing and performance models.

Questions about the Falcon has caused friction between Ford and Australian motoring media. In Detroit today, the company’s global product chief Derrick Kuzak turned his back on two Australian journalists who door-stopped him on the issue.

Minutes later Ford’s global president Alan Mulally was quizzed by Australian media before being taken away by his PR minder.

“We love the Falcon, we have nothing new to address today other than we love serving the Australian customer. We have nothing to report,” he said, before refusing to answer more questions.

“I have never met more relentless people than the Australians [media].”

The Falcon news comes just hours after Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux told Australian journalists in Detroit that he favoured a rear-wheel drive for Australia’s best-selling car, the Commodore, for years to come. A decision is due this year.

Commodore has advantages over Falcon because Holden is GM’s global rear-wheel drive engineering homeroom, and the platform and the car itself have both been exported.

Falcon is currently a global orphan with no export prospects. That’s an anathema for a company committed to a global product development and sales strategy it calls ‘One Ford’.

In Detroit Ford rolled out its most comprehensive ‘One Ford’ strategy yet, unveiling 10 different cars based on its Focus small car platform, including a concept compact SUV called the Vertrek that should eventually replace the ancient Escape in Australia.

Under One Ford, Falcon and the locally-built Territory medium SUV – which currently share the locally-developed “E8” architecture – would align with their US equivalents, the Taurus and Explorer, both of which are already front/all-wheel drive.

“Keep in mind we have already done this with Focus and Fiesta and we have gotten very good response,” design boss Mays said. “When we started this process (One Ford) we had many people internally saying it would not work.

“But guess what? It has. So we feel very confident we are going to be able to deliver a car that everyone around the world will be happy with.”

However, it seems Ford’s iconic sports car, the Mustang, will escape the One Ford mantra, and continue on alone as a rear-wheel-drive vehicle.

Mays is overseeing a design competition between various global Ford studios including Australia to finalise a shape for the One Ford large car.

“The new car will take some cues from the (US) Taurus,” Mays explained. “I think the Australians and Americans have an affinity for a slightly tougher looking car.

“I have always equated many of the cars we have sold in Australia to American muscle cars and I think you want a little bit of that in an Australian sedan as well.”

Mays said the move from rear to AWD platform would not affect that muscle car philosophy: “No, should we decide to do it, I think we will get it right. We are pretty cognoscente of the risks and the positive sides as well.”

The current Falcon is due for a substantial update in 2011, including a new Ecoboost turbocharged four-cylinder engine and an advanced direct injection LPG system for its staple inline six-cylinder 4.0-litre engine.

The Territory also evolves into its second generation, and will add a turbo-diesel V6 engine to its powertrain lineup.

Brazen · 11-01-2011, 10:57 AM

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.

First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

chevypower · 11-01-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor

My speculation.

Lincoln goes global as a premium Ford product.

Our RWD Falcon DNA forms the basis of the global Lincoln, some of which is also shared with Mustang. We produce RHD versions of both for several markets, including our own.

The everyman Falcon is replaced by the Taurus, made in ????

That makes sense to me too. When Ford dropped Jag and Volvo, I thought Ford would be aiming to make Lincoln a global brand.

fou_bleu · 11-01-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.

First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

I do hope you're right - that is a mighty plan!

BUT - no offense to J Mays, would the DESIGN chief for Ford REALLY be in the right position to say "Yea, our plans are..." Methinks not so much.

Also, I'd wait for an announcement from Ford AUSTRALIA - they are the ones that need to be telling us these things - not the international design director!

XRFutura · 11-01-2011, 11:52 AM

I still believe the next falcon will be part of the new mustang and larger lincoln premium sedan.

Lincoln needs to compete with the likes of the Cadilac, BMW, Merc, and a Taurus based car simply can't compare, specially when it comes to a hi-po model. If fords intention is to make lincoln a global brand they need a large, powerful, rwd chassis with an engine capable of producing 500hp or more in the hi-po model.

I believe Ford US needs the falcon and are engineering know how more than we actaully do and Alan Mulally knows that.

I think we'll have and awd falcon but sold alongside the rwd version, like we have the territory and dodge does with the charger.

Brazen · 11-01-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

I do hope you're right - that is a mighty plan!

BUT - no offense to J Mays, would the DESIGN chief for Ford REALLY be in the right position to say "Yea, our plans are..." Methinks not so much.

Also, I'd wait for an announcement from Ford AUSTRALIA - they are the ones that need to be telling us these things - not the international design director!

Id say he would know, as he is overseeing the design comp from the various Ford studios to design the new Taurus/Falcon twins. Although nothing has been confirmed that it will happen. So who knows? Maybe the Mustang and Falcon will merge.

Brazen · 11-01-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFutura

I still believe the next falcon will be part of the new mustang and larger lincoln premium sedan.

Lincoln needs to compete with the likes of the Cadilac, BMW, Merc, and a Taurus based car simply can't compare, specially when it comes to a hi-po model. If fords intention is to make lincoln a global brand they need a large, powerful, rwd chassis with an engine capable of producing 500hp or more in the hi-po model.

I believe Ford US needs the falcon and are engineering know how more than we actaully do and Alan Mulally knows that.

I think we'll have and awd falcon but sold alongside the rwd version, like we have the territory and dodge does with the charger.

I personally dont see Lincoln going after the large RWD D class market. Lincoln has explained that it sees smaller cars and SUVs as its premium target. They are even pushing a LWB SUV based on the Taurus for limosine and livery duties to replace the Lincoln Town Car!

If they ever do go large sedan, they can use Taurus AWD as the platform. I also dont see them going global for a long long time, thank Cadillac's abysmal failure in Europe for that.

**Polyal** · 11-01-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRFutura

I still believe the next falcon will be part of the new mustang and larger lincoln premium sedan.

Lincoln needs to compete with the likes of the Cadilac, BMW, Merc, and a Taurus based car simply can't compare, specially when it comes to a hi-po model. If fords intention is to make lincoln a global brand they need a large, powerful, rwd chassis with an engine capable of producing 500hp or more in the hi-po model.

I believe Ford US needs the falcon and are engineering know how more than we actaully do and Alan Mulally knows that.

I think we'll have and awd falcon but sold alongside the rwd version, like we have the territory and dodge does with the charger.

I agree. While we are small fish in a big sea we do pack quite a punch, FoA is valuable and over the past few years you would have noticed CEO's dropping these cliches.

The sky is not falling, as much as those caffeinated web journalists would like to think so.

R-Design · 11-01-2011, 12:10 PM

Its Detroit 2010 all over again. Hopefully Ford AU handle things a bit better this time around. Ford if you're listening, I could live with an AWD V8 Falcon in 2015.

XRFutura · 11-01-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Its Detroit 2010 all over again. Hopefully Ford AU handle things a bit better this time around. Ford if you're listening, I could live with an AWD V8 Falcon in 2015.

If audi can make Twin Turbo V10 AWD RS6 work, i think ford could make a supercharged AWD falcon work. No more traction issues and bye bye HSV

Road_Warrior · 11-01-2011, 12:34 PM

That article was written by Drive journalists, who penned the same crap and were the architects of the same hysteria last year.

dannyhilton · 11-01-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

It is that time of the year where the media starts writing total BS about Falcon!!!

That time of the year? That time of the day seems more appropriate, given the amount of garbage being thrown out by these so called 'journalists' about the new Falcon.

I'm confident, RWD or not, the new Falcon will be a great car. To simply please a few of us Ford fans doesn't make financial sense, however having an AWD option gives us the best of both worlds really. Still have hopes for a joint Mustang/Lincoln platform though

Brazen · 11-01-2011, 01:27 PM

I wonder if the Falcon ute plays on the decision at all, surely they dont want to throw that market away.

GK · 11-01-2011, 01:30 PM

These "journalists" won't rest until they see Ford shut production down in Aus.

GK

Sta Arhidia Mou · 11-01-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.

But isn't the Taurus FWD based so even in AWD layout the engine is going to be mounted transversely?

Road_Warrior · 11-01-2011, 01:37 PM

Ford Australia needs to come out swinging against all this crap - Drive pulled the same stunt last year based on a throw away comment from a Detroit exec, yet they let the speculation fester and snowball. This has damaged the Falcon I believe.

LeadFoot81 · 11-01-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.

First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

Ssshhh...you're making too much sense!

Wretched · 11-01-2011, 01:39 PM

I'll wait until something is set in concrete before really commenting.
It is only speculation for now, all the journos are fishing for a comment from Ford.
Up to Ford to respond, they after all initiated it with Mays' comment.

bigsta · 11-01-2011, 01:41 PM

ppppfffftttt i take this with a grain of salt the oz automotive journos are a joke...

AWD can be awesome and can be BS most "AWD" cars are FWD biased to the tune of 95% power with 5% of power being available at the back wheels when the trac control tells it to not ideal for towing.

Im waiting for the day i see a kluger or a xc90 at the boat ramp...

The territory is one of the few and the only in its price range that has a proper 40/60 power split.

The commodore is 100% safe as they have impressed the rest of the world with the quality of design and most likely the next gen will be the GM global RWD platform like this one is they also export almost as many as they sell in oz.

Ford do not have a decent RWD platform other than the falcon and I think you may see the falcon evolve in the same way as the commodore did with help from overseas money as ford have lost billions of dollars in sales since deleting the crown victoria with the exception of police/taxi sales and since this car is still almost the same as it was in 1978 with a live rear axle its no wonder police in the states are lining up to buy the GM police interceptor special made in oz.

And even though the crown vic is rubbish it was still selling 100000 units a year in the states a revival of a falcon like RWD car will steal alot of sales from GM.

A strong case that ford Australia should put to Detroit..