Phase 4 up for auction

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by HO 3

No, but luckily for the collector car hobby it's not you that decides what's real or correct with Factory Works Race Cars both here and overseas.



Cheers Mick

I’d have to agree with you - they’d be aligned down to a value that represented their actual historical worth if left to me.

Best not.

[wozman]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Pictures of "H" under Engine on compliance plate not loading?

Only has T on the plate

[portokatsiki]

I reckon it'll fetch over 2 million

[ozpacman]

The bidding's at 265k as of today.

I reckon if the owner had parked it in a rusty old corrugated iron shed, emptied the vacuum cleaner bag over it and then grabbed a few pics, she'd be over a million by now!

[zoesgift]

Originally Posted by portokatsiki

I reckon it'll fetch over 2 million

my guess is the "bidding" will get it there. its a genuine sale, whether it sells or not time will tell. interesting to see what will happen with the green complianced ph4

[Bossxr8]

Well if a production phase 3 is worth $1 million, a factory race car phase 4 has to be worth north of $1.5 million imo. Probably $2 million.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Well if a production phase 3 is worth sells for $1 million, a factory race car phase 4 has to be worth north may sell for of $1.5 million imo. Probably $2 million.

Let's not attach the intrinsic value of the vehicle to the value it will sell for.

It is not, and never will be, worth anywhere near what you're quoting as that is just stupid money.

...it may sell to someone for this sort of price who has very deep pockets and doesn't care what it's worth...because they have an emotional attachment to an over-priced inanimate object that far outstrips reality

I wouldn't buy it even if I had the spare money lying around doing nothing.

[mike_nofx]

Well how is the ‘worth’ of anything calculated?

Diamonds and gold are just rocks found in the ground, ‘worth’ what any other piece of rock is.

What it sells for and what people will pay is what it’s worth.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Well how is the ‘worth’ of anything calculated?

Diamonds and gold are just rocks found in the ground, ‘worth’ what any other piece of rock is.

What it sells for and what people will pay is what it’s worth.

I hear you and I will admit it's semantics.

What it sells for and what people will pay are not the same as what it is worth.

It'll sell for whatever price that someone without a great deal of sense and with very deep pockets will pay for the supposed exclusivity of owning a supposedly rare part of Australian automotive history.

What they are actually after is bragging rights at the next GT Club meeting, it will make them pseudo-important in a very small circle of people who are the only ones who will care.

Is the car 'worth' $2M?

Well that puts the price in the range of the uber-rare luxury European cars (which are also stupidly priced) that are fancied by wealthy American, Russian or Arab buyers...but it's supposedly a HO version of a commonly available Australian family car from the early 70s with the drivability, rust issues and performance of all that entails.

I will respectively suggest it will only be 'worth' $2M to the person who paid $2M for it, as they will have to justify the stupid amount of money to themselves and anyone else who thinks they have more money than sense.

...I don't own any gold or diamonds either, but it's a good comparison

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Well how is the ‘worth’ of anything calculated?

Diamonds and gold are just rocks found in the ground, ‘worth’ what any other piece of rock is.

What it sells for and what people will pay is what it’s worth.

^^^^ My thoughts exactly.

An item is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, no more, no less.

Also at auction it has to be 'worth' its value to at least two people otherwise it would sell at the first bid price.

Dr Terry

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

^^^^ My thoughts exactly.

An item is worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, no more, no less.

Also at auction it has to be 'worth' its value to at least two people otherwise it would sell at the first bid price.

Dr Terry

It would be worth at least $2M to someone who owned a car 'just like that P4 that sold for $2M'

I can see the advert now:

This car once had a P4 parked next to it on the assembly line and the guys that breathed on the P4 once breathed in its vicinity. Fingerprints from the guys working on the line have been found inside the guards and have been sent to Ford Australia for verification.

$1.5M or best offer, tyre kickers will be prosecuted...

[Nikked]

I've got Hotwheels cars and CD's/Vinyls that people pay more then what ive paid for them.

"Worth" is worked out by the market, a car selling for millions dies do because you have people compeating to want it. Even if something is valued by a handful of people, that still means its worth something.

[BENT_8]

Well i think its worth 2.5m and would pay that if i was that way inclined, so if it goes for 1.5-2.0m it'll be a bargain one would think.

[arronm]

I rate worth as what it cost to make, but what things sell for is what people are willing to pay. Those GTHO cost 6K, but people pay 1 mil cause they want one.

Take paintings for example. They just hang on the wall. Cost not much to make and cant do SFA , but people pay heaps because they like them.



Does anyone know if this car can be registered and driven on the road. Or is it a track car, or just a painting...

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by arronm

Does anyone know if this car can be registered and driven on the road. Or is it a track car, or just a painting...

Sure. Angle-grind the cage out and it would be good to go

[Vesper Martini]

I recently watched a vid on old vs new Shelby GT350's

when the owner of the new GT350 drove the old one, and you could tell he wasn't impressed, but he was polite.

original 65 shelby GT350's sell for over 300 grand I believe.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

Let's not attach the intrinsic value of the vehicle to the value it will sell for.

It is not, and never will be, worth anywhere near what you're quoting as that is just stupid money.

...it may sell to someone for this sort of price who has very deep pockets and doesn't care what it's worth...because they have an emotional attachment to an over-priced inanimate object that far outstrips reality

I wouldn't buy it even if I had the spare money lying around doing nothing.

It's worth what it sells for. It's not an ebay ad like someone trying to sell a BF Cobra for 150k and it never sells. That's not "worth" 150k cause no one is prepared to pay that for it.

If this sells for $2 million it is worth that cause someone was prepared to pay that for it.

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's worth what it sells for. It's not an ebay ad like someone trying to sell a BF Cobra for 150k and it never sells. That's not "worth" 150k cause no one is prepared to pay that for it.

If this sells for $2 million it is worth that cause someone was prepared to pay that for it.

So if two guys get together and one arranges to 'sell' a XA GT to the other and announce to the world (well those who care) that it sold for $1.2M does that mean that all other XA GTs are now automatically 'worth' $1.2M...as you know as the last recorded 'sale' was $1.2M hence they must be 'worth' this amount of money

That sounds like a good rort to me, if I had two XA GTs the second would be the better one. I'd find a mate, over-state the price on the first, make a 'private sale' at the inflated price and make it known to all and sundry.

Then I'd advertise the second at an outrageous price, make a fat profit and split the difference with the 'buyer' of the first. Maybe in a few years 'buy' the first back for $1.5M and do it again

[zoesgift]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

I hear you and I will admit it's semantics.

What it sells for and what people will pay are not the same as what it is worth.

It'll sell for whatever price that someone without a great deal of sense and with very deep pockets will pay for the supposed exclusivity of owning a supposedly rare part of Australian automotive history.

What they are actually after is bragging rights at the next GT Club meeting, it will make them pseudo-important in a very small circle of people who are the only ones who will care.

Is the car 'worth' $2M?

Well that puts the price in the range of the uber-rare luxury European cars (which are also stupidly priced) that are fancied by wealthy American, Russian or Arab buyers...but it's supposedly a HO version of a commonly available Australian family car from the early 70s with the drivability, rust issues and performance of all that entails.

I will respectively suggest it will only be 'worth' $2M to the person who paid $2M for it, as they will have to justify the stupid amount of money to themselves and anyone else who thinks they have more money than sense.

...I don't own any gold or diamonds either, but it's a good comparison

the current owner could hardly care less about bragging rights or the next club meeting lol

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by arronm

Does anyone know if this car can be registered and driven on the road. Or is it a track car, or just a painting...

It certainly used to be, so it would appear was the Bruce Hodgson rally car before it was destroyed......

http://www.falcongt.info/history/art...Article-5a.htm

After full production of the Phase IV was cancelled, Ford decided to sell off the four cars. The spare car – which had the least race preparation – initially went to John Goss via McLeod Ford, who assembled the car for road use. In 1977 Fred Gibson test drove the car (then with only 1900 miles on the clock) for Racing Car News. Fred’s verdict was that it was a much better and more sophisticated car than the Phase III and would have developed into a great racecar.

[Vesper Martini]

Interesting:

"Unfortunately a head on with a Commodore destroyed the car and although the wreck is believed to exist, the car is unlikely to re-appear"

Is this the car that's up for Auction?

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Interesting:

"Unfortunately a head on with a Commodore destroyed the car and although the wreck is believed to exist, the car is unlikely to re-appear"

Is this the car that's up for Auction?

It's the Paul Carthew car thats up for auction, Bruce Hodgson had the destroyed one....

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...342971561&_rdr

1972 FALCON GT-HO PHASE 1V WORKS RACE CAR
Sido No. 816003 ..JG33MC78489K.. Delivered to FSV Lot 6
Mahoneys Rd. Monday 12th June 1972. Sold to Mcleod Ford .
Current owner Paul Carthew.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

So if two guys get together and one arranges to 'sell' a XA GT to the other and announce to the world (well those who care) that it sold for $1.2M does that mean that all other XA GTs are now automatically 'worth' $1.2M...as you know as the last recorded 'sale' was $1.2M hence they must be 'worth' this amount of money

That sounds like a good rort to me, if I had two XA GTs the second would be the better one. I'd find a mate, over-state the price on the first, make a 'private sale' at the inflated price and make it known to all and sundry.

Then I'd advertise the second at an outrageous price, make a fat profit and split the difference with the 'buyer' of the first. Maybe in a few years 'buy' the first back for $1.5M and do it again

Originally Posted by Ratmick

I hear you and I will admit it's semantics.

What it sells for and what people will pay are not the same as what it is worth.

It'll sell for whatever price that someone without a great deal of sense and with very deep pockets will pay for the supposed exclusivity of owning a supposedly rare part of Australian automotive history.

What they are actually after is bragging rights at the next GT Club meeting, it will make them pseudo-important in a very small circle of people who are the only ones who will care.

Is the car 'worth' $2M?

Well that puts the price in the range of the uber-rare luxury European cars (which are also stupidly priced) that are fancied by wealthy American, Russian or Arab buyers...but it's supposedly a HO version of a commonly available Australian family car from the early 70s with the drivability, rust issues and performance of all that entails.

I will respectively suggest it will only be 'worth' $2M to the person who paid $2M for it, as they will have to justify the stupid amount of money to themselves and anyone else who thinks they have more money than sense.

...I don't own any gold or diamonds either, but it's a good comparison

OK!
Lets have a look at the Cashed Up Baby Boomers, who caused the Muscle Car Boom in the mid 2000's.
The Baby Boomers drove up the price of the Australian Muscle Cars so high. That the average Muscle Car Enthusiast couldn't afford one. It wasn't until the Global Financial Crises (GFC),that came along. And forced down the price of an already over inflated prices-es of the Australian Muscle Cars, to a more realistic price. That an Enthusiast could afford.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

So if two guys get together and one arranges to 'sell' a XA GT to the other and announce to the world (well those who care) that it sold for $1.2M does that mean that all other XA GTs are now automatically 'worth' $1.2M...as you know as the last recorded 'sale' was $1.2M hence they must be 'worth' this amount of money

That sounds like a good rort to me, if I had two XA GTs the second would be the better one. I'd find a mate, over-state the price on the first, make a 'private sale' at the inflated price and make it known to all and sundry.

Then I'd advertise the second at an outrageous price, make a fat profit and split the difference with the 'buyer' of the first. Maybe in a few years 'buy' the first back for $1.5M and do it again

You're not the first person to think of that gag. It has been done many times. But & it's a big but, how do you do this if there are so few Phase 4s around.

There was a guy several years ago who had a large collection of early cars, all of one model series. What he used to do was advertise one of the better ones at a ridiculous price, say 3 or 4 times its 'worth' & at the same time advertise of of the 'rougher' cars at a high value. He doesn't even 'pretend' to sell the pristine one, he just advertises it. That artificially raises its 'value' in the eyes of potential buyers for a short time.

Let's say an average one was worth $8K & the pristine one worth $15K. He would advertise one (or even 2) pristine ones at $50-60K, which nobody was ever going to pay, but you never know !! He would then advertise a roughy at $20 which now looked like a relative bargain & would often sell. Having several of these cars allowed him to almost manipulate the market, but it only works for a short time until you either run out of cars or run short of gullible buyers.

It's just the capitalist 'free' market. It's all supply & demand. If there are plenty of buyers & a lack of supply then the price (or worth) go up.

When something like a Phase 4 comes up for sale, there is not much need to debate how many more there are out there. If more than 2 buyers 'really' want it, the price will go sky high.

Where your argument based on the XA GT falls down, is that there are so many more of them out there, so their 'worth' is less.

Dr Terry

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

So if two guys get together and one arranges to 'sell' a XA GT to the other and announce to the world (well those who care) that it sold for $1.2M does that mean that all other XA GTs are now automatically 'worth' $1.2M...as you know as the last recorded 'sale' was $1.2M hence they must be 'worth' this amount of money

That sounds like a good rort to me, if I had two XA GTs the second would be the better one. I'd find a mate, over-state the price on the first, make a 'private sale' at the inflated price and make it known to all and sundry.

Then I'd advertise the second at an outrageous price, make a fat profit and split the difference with the 'buyer' of the first. Maybe in a few years 'buy' the first back for $1.5M and do it again

What a dumb thing to say.

If they did that they would get laughed at, cause there are what, 1000 or so XA GT's left?


Completely different story when there are only 3 factory race cars, and they have hardly ever changed hands. It's the rarity and provenance as factory racecars that make these cars worth well over $1 million dollars. Not because the owners made some price inflation scam.

[HO 3]

Looks like the PC, Ultra White, 40 mile HO3 is also up for sale with Lloyds.

Cheers Mick

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a dumb thing to say.

If they did that they would get laughed at, cause there are what, 1000 or so XA GT's left?

Completely different story when there are only 3 factory race cars, and they have hardly ever changed hands. It's the rarity and provenance as factory racecars that make these cars worth well over $1 million dollars. Not because the owners made some price inflation scam.

My example was an exaggerated example.

What I said may be 'dumb' but mooting $2.5M for a 'limited edition' slightly shady provenance XA GT is totally 100% and irrevocably stupid.

Anyway I am done, whatever...

[Sioso]

I think it will sell for between 1M-1.4M or not at all.
Happy to be proven wrong but I would be surprised if someone parted with 2M.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

My example was an exaggerated example.

What I said may be 'dumb' but mooting $2.5M for a 'limited edition' slightly shady provenance XA GT is totally 100% and irrevocably stupid.

Anyway I am done, whatever...

Why slightly shady provenance? It would have to be one of the most original XA Falcon in existence no matter what you want to call it, and yet you wipe it like a dirty bum.

Cheers Mick

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

My example was an exaggerated example.

What I said may be 'dumb' but mooting $2.5M for a 'limited edition' slightly shady provenance XA GT is totally 100% and irrevocably stupid.

Anyway I am done, whatever...

Oh well, you're probably never going to be in the position to buy it so how is it effecting you.